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Fman

Hydrofoil/Sky Ski question

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Fman

Was watching a sky ski/hydrofoil on the water the other day being pulled by a Nautique 230, I then asked myself do you really need a wakeboard boat to use a hydrofoil? Does the wake help launch the rider? This guy was pretty good, he was flipping, but outside the wake in the flats... never saw him actually use the wake for his jumps.... is it mainly the "tower" that makes it better? Could you use a standard I/O runabout with a tower and have the same results?

I dont hydrofoil, but I am sure someone will have an answer here... just was curious.

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DUKENO1

Was watching a sky ski/hydrofoil on the water the other day being pulled by a Nautique 230, I then asked myself do you really need a wakeboard boat to use a hydrofoil? Does the wake help launch the rider? This guy was pretty good, he was flipping, but outside the wake in the flats... never saw him actually use the wake for his jumps.... is it mainly the "tower" that makes it better? Could you use a standard I/O runabout with a tower and have the same results?

I dont hydrofoil, but I am sure someone will have an answer here... just was curious.

I don't foil either and have always wondered this myself. Good question! The wake may not matter but I can't imagine

being towed for much of anything except maybe a tube with anything other than a wakeboat. I tried to pull my buddy on a slalom ski behind his Chapparal (nice i/o) the other day and there is absolutely no comparison when it comes to our boats getting up and out of the hole, and he has a v8 also. I guess I have been spoiled after having a dedicated towboat.

So let's hear it from the foilers...do you guys run ballast to make the wakes bigger or does it really matter?

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Bill_AirJunky

No, you don't really "need" the wakeboard boat, the wake or the tower to ride a foil. But then again, you don't really "need" any of it to ride a wakeboard either. Remember what Shapiro was doin back in the early 90s?

It's all a crutch. If any of us had any real skills, then we wouldn't need any of it. A foil rider definitely can get more air on his own than a boarder can without a wake. But the wake adds another dimension to it if the rider can time it all right.

I regularly ride behind several boats..... my own Vride with 900 lbs of ballast, a buddies MC Prostar 205 with no ballast, and another buddies' MC X15 with 2500 lbs of ballast. I can do flips over the wake & in the flats behind any of these boats, even behind a jetski. But my wake tricks are definitely higher than my tricks in the flats if I have a nice wake to use. And if I can really nut up behind that X15, do a progressive cut into the wake & get my jump timed right........ OOOoooooooh baby, the hang time is just STUPID fun. :yahoo:

Foil riders are measuring their hang time in frames now. Like in video the trick with a 30 fps video camera. Then go back & see how many frames the rider & foil are out of the water... from the time they exit the water till the time they re-enter. So a trick that is 45 frames is 1.5 seconds in the air. Biggest wakeboarder I've ever seen was 55 frames by Ricky Gonzales on a tantrum off the double-up.... HUGE tantrum. Biggest foil trick so far is 62 frames off a kicker wake.... 60 frames off their own wake.... and like 55 frames off no wake at all. The 60 frame roll record was set about a month ago....

.

BTW, I rode with a new rider on Pend Oi'Reille the other day... behind his 20' Maxim with a Monster tower. We had 2 foils & 3 guys & the boat was ridiculously crowded. The next weekend we rode behind my Vride with a Titan tower that has 2 racks on it. We had 5 riders & 4 foils.... 2 in the racks, one on the engine cover & one 80' back. The difference in how much room we had was HUGE. There is no comparison.

Edited by Bill_AirJunky

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skyskier

You do not need a big wake, or any wake at all, but advanced riders can go bigger off of a beefy wake. The tower helps beginners and advanced as well due to the higher tow point. The tower also provides a place to hang a rack or two. These skis take up lots of room in the boat. Also, the wings are sharp enough to slice and dice vinyl and skin, so racking is a must.

I rode off of a I/O for years and I can say the boat did not hold me back. So yes it can be done. I can't think of one trick that requires a wake type boat ( is posing a trick?), but a big wake and a tower will allow you to take the trick bigger for sure.

Now for the most important reason of all. Foilers know that their boats have to be wakeboard friendly because wakeboarders are excellent drivers, they always bring beer, and they take short sets.

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Bill_AirJunky

Now for the most important reason of all. Foilers know that their boats have to be wakeboard friendly because wakeboarders are excellent drivers, they always bring beer, and they take short sets.

HEhe, thats perfect. Most of the boarders I ride with are downright scared of the big wakes too. So we drain off some of the ballast for them. Which I suppose means they burn less gas too. :rockon:

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srintx

No, you don't really "need" the wakeboard boat, the wake or the tower to ride a foil. But then again, you don't really "need" any of it to ride a wakeboard either. Remember what Shapiro was doin back in the early 90s?

It's all a crutch. If any of us had any real skills, then we wouldn't need any of it. A foil rider definitely can get more air on his own than a boarder can without a wake. But the wake adds another dimension to it if the rider can time it all right.

I regularly ride behind several boats..... my own Vride with 900 lbs of ballast, a buddies MC Prostar 205 with no ballast, and another buddies' MC X15 with 2500 lbs of ballast. I can do flips over the wake & in the flats behind any of these boats, even behind a jetski. But my wake tricks are definitely higher than my tricks in the flats if I have a nice wake to use. And if I can really nut up behind that X15, do a progressive cut into the wake & get my jump timed right........ OOOoooooooh baby, the hang time is just STUPID fun. :yahoo:

Foil riders are measuring their hang time in frames now. Like in video the trick with a 30 fps video camera. Then go back & see how many frames the rider & foil are out of the water... from the time they exit the water till the time they re-enter. So a trick that is 45 frames is 1.5 seconds in the air. Biggest wakeboarder I've ever seen was 55 frames by Ricky Gonzales on a tantrum off the double-up.... HUGE tantrum. Biggest foil trick so far is 62 frames off a kicker wake.... 60 frames off their own wake.... and like 55 frames off no wake at all. The 60 frame roll record was set about a month ago....

.

BTW, I rode with a new rider on Pend Oi'Reille the other day... behind his 20' Maxim with a Monster tower. We had 2 foils & 3 guys & the boat was ridiculously crowded. The next weekend we rode behind my Vride with a Titan tower that has 2 racks on it. We had 5 riders & 4 foils.... 2 in the racks, one on the engine cover & one 80' back. The difference in how much room we had was HUGE. There is no comparison.

You do not need a big wake, or any wake at all, but advanced riders can go bigger off of a beefy wake. The tower helps beginners and advanced as well due to the higher tow point. The tower also provides a place to hang a rack or two. These skis take up lots of room in the boat. Also, the wings are sharp enough to slice and dice vinyl and skin, so racking is a must.

I rode off of a I/O for years and I can say the boat did not hold me back. So yes it can be done. I can't think of one trick that requires a wake type boat ( is posing a trick?), but a big wake and a tower will allow you to take the trick bigger for sure.

Now for the most important reason of all. Foilers know that their boats have to be wakeboard friendly because wakeboarders are excellent drivers, they always bring beer, and they take short sets.

Iv'e thought about getting a Ski...can either of you give insight as to which brand (Sky Ski or Air Chair) pros and cons?

Do they make a rack that fits on the G3 Tower?

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water_junky

Was watching a sky ski/hydrofoil on the water the other day being pulled by a Nautique 230, I then asked myself do you really need a wakeboard boat to use a hydrofoil? Does the wake help launch the rider? This guy was pretty good, he was flipping, but outside the wake in the flats... never saw him actually use the wake for his jumps.... is it mainly the "tower" that makes it better? Could you use a standard I/O runabout with a tower and have the same results?

I dont hydrofoil, but I am sure someone will have an answer here... just was curious.

Before we purchased our 2009 VLX we hydrofoiled behind our closed bow response with a tower (I know most people think it's a sin to put a tower on a closed bow response :unsure: ) and it was fine. We still ride behind it when we go to our property down in Missouri and while the wake is much smaller then the VLX we don't notice it much. Now with the VLX, when you exit the foil at the peak of the wake with line tension, you do notice a difference. :crazy:

Terry

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water_junky

Iv'e thought about getting a Ski...can either of you give insight as to which brand (Sky Ski or Air Chair) pros and cons?

Do they make a rack that fits on the G3 Tower?

Right now, hands down Sky Ski!! A new Air Chair is coming out that is supposed to be good, but currently the difference between the Sky Ski and Air Chair is the same as a Malibu compared to a Bayliner.

Terry

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Bill_AirJunky

Iv'e thought about getting a Ski...can either of you give insight as to which brand (Sky Ski or Air Chair) pros and cons?

Do they make a rack that fits on the G3 Tower?

In recent years, SkySki has been the foil of choice. Mainly because there was 5 or 6 different models to choose from for a variety of skill levels & budgets. In the last 10 yrs if you went to a foil event, you'd find 99 SkySkis & 1 AirChair. The ratio was that drastic.

I think the big reason why that was the case was because SS spent a lot of time & money doing R&D, improving things, releasing better equipment, etc. AirChair was owned by a guy who spent more time counting beans & less time improving his product.

Recently the patents ran out on the sit down foil. So there have been some new companies popping up lately..... Samson for one. Plus the owner of AirChair sold out to a new guy who is based out of Georgia.... and who has recently dumped a ton of cash into R&D, promotion, etc. SkySki's objective up to this point was to be so firmly ingrained in the sport that they would maintain their customer loyalty & keep riding the wave. And in all this, there is now competition between the companies.... so they are ALL playing with new components. It's a very exciting time really, new seats, new wings, lighter & stronger boards, etc. etc. But prices have not really come down yet. A beginner foil is $1000 or more. And a high end foil is $3000 or $4000. But a guy who is just getting into the sport, and doesn't really know if he's there to stay yet, doesn't really need a $4k foil either (IMO). Check out the used market. I just sold a good mid-level ski to a TMC member for under $2k. And early this summer I helped another TMC member with a mid-level foil purchase.... for around $2k.

http://www.foilforum.com is the place to BS about foils. There is a classified section there. And also watch Ebay. If you find any foils you'd like checked out, then feel free to drop me a line anytime. I'd be glad to give you some advice on whatever you find.

Suffice it to say though.... a $500, 10 yr old AirChair is not a great riding foil. It's OK, and probably some fun, but very bottom level. A descent riding foil good for a guy who weighs 200 lbs (more or less), isn't going to bend or break, and will get him thru his first jumps & maybe even his first inverts..... well I'd suggest being prepared to spend at least $1500.

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Bill_AirJunky

Regarding the OP's original question.... I don't call them "wakeboard boats" any more. There are several disciplines using this equipment now days.

I call them "wake sport boats". :rockon:

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srintx

Right now, hands down Sky Ski!! A new Air Chair is coming out that is supposed to be good, but currently the difference between the Sky Ski and Air Chair is the same as a Malibu compared to a Bayliner.

Terry

In recent years, SkySki has been the foil of choice. Mainly because there was 5 or 6 different models to choose from for a variety of skill levels & budgets. In the last 10 yrs if you went to a foil event, you'd find 99 SkySkis & 1 AirChair. The ratio was that drastic.

I think the big reason why that was the case was because SS spent a lot of time & money doing R&D, improving things, releasing better equipment, etc. AirChair was owned by a guy who spent more time counting beans & less time improving his product.

Recently the patents ran out on the sit down foil. So there have been some new companies popping up lately..... Samson for one. Plus the owner of AirChair sold out to a new guy who is based out of Georgia.... and who has recently dumped a ton of cash into R&D, promotion, etc. SkySki's objective up to this point was to be so firmly ingrained in the sport that they would maintain their customer loyalty & keep riding the wave. And in all this, there is now competition between the companies.... so they are ALL playing with new components. It's a very exciting time really, new seats, new wings, lighter & stronger boards, etc. etc. But prices have not really come down yet. A beginner foil is $1000 or more. And a high end foil is $3000 or $4000. But a guy who is just getting into the sport, and doesn't really know if he's there to stay yet, doesn't really need a $4k foil either (IMO). Check out the used market. I just sold a good mid-level ski to a TMC member for under $2k. And early this summer I helped another TMC member with a mid-level foil purchase.... for around $2k.

http://www.foilforum.com is the place to BS about foils. There is a classified section there. And also watch Ebay. If you find any foils you'd like checked out, then feel free to drop me a line anytime. I'd be glad to give you some advice on whatever you find.

Suffice it to say though.... a $500, 10 yr old AirChair is not a great riding foil. It's OK, and probably some fun, but very bottom level. A descent riding foil good for a guy who weighs 200 lbs (more or less), isn't going to bend or break, and will get him thru his first jumps & maybe even his first inverts..... well I'd suggest being prepared to spend at least $1500.

Thank you both...I've never seen it done before but I have always thought is looks fun! Thanks for the information!

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Ozfabs

This is my wife and I foiling behing a 3.8m tinny with a 20hp motor on the back. http://www.youtube.com/user/swissfabs#p/u/48/sVfse_Ilb7E

In February as part of the OzeFlyin ( Annual Australian Flyin ) we had a big air competition behind the same tinny and people were going huge.

Just proves you can do it behind anything and have a lot of fun :)

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