Engine won't turn over??

[christopher.Smiley]

Good morning Crew!

I have a perplexing problem that I have been dealing with for about a month. I had been having some battery drain issues and through some great information from this site, I figured out it was probably the starter doing it. It has gotten wet awhile back and the issue started about that point. It had gotten to a point that it would not even start the boat any longer, even with a brand new fully charged battery. I purchased a brand new one online and installed it but still nothing. Boat does not crank or anything. I thought maybe the switch has gone out but testing it seemed to show it was ok. There is power to the starter but unsure if there is power getting to the solenoid on the starter. I want to jut start over with the testing of the system but wanted to ask what is in the total starter circuit. I am very mechanically inclined but I do not have any schematic for the boat and do not know if there are other starter solenoids somewhere else on the boat. I think at this point I just need some perspective on what to look for and where to look. Frustration levels have been growing for sure. Any advice, recommendations or thoughts are appreciated. If I have left out any information needed, please let me know and I will happily post. Oh here is what I can think to tell about the boat:

2005 Wakesetter 21ft

Monsoon 340 engine

175 hours on the boat

Anything else needed to help figure it out, please let me know. THanks! Have a blessed day!

[WakesetterE]

Good morning Crew!

I have a perplexing problem that I have been dealing with for about a month. I had been having some battery drain issues and through some great information from this site, I figured out it was probably the starter doing it. It has gotten wet awhile back and the issue started about that point. It had gotten to a point that it would not even start the boat any longer, even with a brand new fully charged battery. I purchased a brand new one online and installed it but still nothing. Boat does not crank or anything. I thought maybe the switch has gone out but testing it seemed to show it was ok. There is power to the starter but unsure if there is power getting to the solenoid on the starter. I want to jut start over with the testing of the system but wanted to ask what is in the total starter circuit. I am very mechanically inclined but I do not have any schematic for the boat and do not know if there are other starter solenoids somewhere else on the boat. I think at this point I just need some perspective on what to look for and where to look. Frustration levels have been growing for sure. Any advice, recommendations or thoughts are appreciated. If I have left out any information needed, please let me know and I will happily post. Oh here is what I can think to tell about the boat:

2005 Wakesetter 21ft

Monsoon 340 engine

175 hours on the boat

Anything else needed to help figure it out, please let me know. THanks! Have a blessed day!

Is the boat trying to turn over or is there just no response? There is a neutral safety switch on the transmission, and a kill lanyard on the morse control than can prevent the starter from engaging.

After that, it's a matter of is the solonoid getting enough current to engage the starter. An easy test is to jump the solonoid off the main battery wire and see if that engages the starter. If the main power wire has 12.5+ volts and the starter wont engage, look at the solonoid or starter. If the starter will engage by jumping it, then check to see if your solonoid wire is getting power when you turn the key. I have had ignition switches fail that have caused a similiar issue.

Post some test info so we can send you in the right direction!

Edited August 3, 2011 by WakesetterE

[christopher.Smiley]

Is the boat trying to turn over or is there just no response? There is a neutral safety switch on the transmission, and a kill lanyard on the morse control than can prevent the starter from engaging.

After that, it's a matter of is the solonoid getting enough current to engage the starter. An easy test is to jump the solonoid off the main battery wire and see if that engages the starter. If the main power wire has 12.5+ volts and the starter wont engage, look at the solonoid or starter. If the starter will engage by jumping it, then check to see if your solonoid wire is getting power when you turn the key. I have had ignition switches fail that have caused a similiar issue.

Post some test info so we can send you in the right direction!

Thank you so much for that! I will try that and report back!

[Green_Giant]

This sounds like an issue I had a while back. I tried everything else, then finally bit the bullet and replaced the starter - problem solved.

Easy enough to check voltage at the solenoid upon keying up the starter. If that checks out, may be time to replace it. Mine even bench tested "fine" according to the starter shop, but that was under no load, it was junk and had apparently gotten wet courtesy of the prior owner.

fyi, the safety lanyard doesn't prevent cranking as far as I know, it allows cranking even when pulled. It prevents running.

Neutral safety switch does prevent cranking.

New starter came with solenoid attached, skidim.com.

[Surfin247]

One small note. After having starting problems,and battery and starter checked out I was told to check for corrosion on leads/wires. Some sand papering on leads and terminals and retightening problem solved. I believe in doing the simple and least cost approach first when it comes to these boats,especially since I'm dealing with two. I also believe corrosion/loose leads can rob you of the proper amperage, so it can't hurt to try this first. You might even need new wiring from battery to starter if boat got real wet(corroded wire).

[Green_Giant]

Agree on cleaning and tightening, should have mentioned I went through all that first, even soldered on new tinned copper lugs and a dual battery setup, both betteries couldn't even make it go in the end.

Best of luck, sure you'll get'er figured out.

[christopher.Smiley]

Well, spent about 8 hours this week working on the boat. Tested two different starters, made sure I had power to the starter. Shorted across the starter to see if it would do anything, bypassed the switch, bypassed the relay. I tested the kill switch where the lanyard is and it also tested fine. It just would not even crank the engine. The battery was fully charged, even had by truck jumping it and still nothing. I will say that I have not cleaned up the wires as I did not see those suggestions before. I also have not tested the neutral safety either. Did not know where to test that. Any ideas to add to the list? The boat is stored about 40 minutes from home so I would like to have numerous ideas before I drive that far to get it. Is there any other safety or sensors that might not let the boat crank at all? If I don't have water running into it, would that keep it from cranking? At a loss here. Thank you all for all your help!

[Green_Giant]

Jumping the solenoid should have taken most of that other stuff out of the equation so if that won't even turn a new starter, it doesn't sound like you're getting enough amperage to the solenoid. I'd say something with your cable or connection is fishy. Even cleaning the connection sometimes won't do it if your connections were only crimped and not soldered on, can corrode.

[electricjohn]

There is a relay mounted on the underside of the ECM cover called the start relay. It is mounted there with two other relays, the ECM relay and the fuel pump relay. The start relay is the only one that has yellow wires going to it. You can try swapping out one of the other relays with the start relay and see if the engine cranks. It will not start because you need all three relays working, but it will at least tell you if the start relay is bad. If so, then you can buy a replacement relay at any auto parts store. The ECM and its cover are normally mounted on the back of the engine, just above the tranny. It is held in place by 4-10/32 screws with 5/16" hex heads.

[tvano]

There is a relay mounted on the underside of the ECM cover called the start relay. It is mounted there with two other relays, the ECM relay and the fuel pump relay. The start relay is the only one that has yellow wires going to it. You can try swapping out one of the other relays with the start relay and see if the engine cranks. It will not start because you need all three relays working, but it will at least tell you if the start relay is bad. If so, then you can buy a replacement relay at any auto parts store. The ECM and its cover are normally mounted on the back of the engine, just above the tranny. It is held in place by 4-10/32 screws with 5/16" hex heads.

good stuff.

i've added it to the no start troubleshooting doc.

thanks.

[lukeusc]

Not sure if you have fixed the problem with the starter but thought I would give a little insight. You might want to try pulling the spark plugs to see if you have water in the cylinders. If so pull all the plugs and crank the engine over until no more water is coming out. Put the plugs and wires back in and you are good to go. Your engine will not crank over because you cannot compress water.

[christopher.Smiley]

Not sure if you have fixed the problem with the starter but thought I would give a little insight. You might want to try pulling the spark plugs to see if you have water in the cylinders. If so pull all the plugs and crank the engine over until no more water is coming out. Put the plugs and wires back in and you are good to go. Your engine will not crank over because you cannot compress water.

Ok, I cleaned up all the connections from the battery to the starter and also from the battery to the fuse panel. Still nothing. I even went as far as using a set of jumper cables to see if maybe their was something I was missing. Still nothing. If I arc across the positive terminal on the starter to the solenoid, it does sound like the starter is engaging but it is not pushing the flywheel around. I have not yet tried to pull all the plugs and try it to see if it would crank over. Can try that next if that sounds like it may truly be a possibility. I was also wondering about the neutral safety switch and where it is located or how to test it? Also open to any other ideas to check. I did try switching around the relays but that did not do anything either.

I was still wondering if see engines have some kind of water pressure switch that if there is no water in the engine that it will not start or crank? What would happen if you did start it out of the water with no fake a lake or anything? Thanks for all your help everyone!

[james11music]

Ok, I cleaned up all the connections from the battery to the starter and also from the battery to the fuse panel. Still nothing. I even went as far as using a set of jumper cables to see if maybe their was something I was missing. Still nothing. If I arc across the positive terminal on the starter to the solenoid, it does sound like the starter is engaging but it is not pushing the flywheel around. I have not yet tried to pull all the plugs and try it to see if it would crank over. Can try that next if that sounds like it may truly be a possibility. I was also wondering about the neutral safety switch and where it is located or how to test it? Also open to any other ideas to check. I did try switching around the relays but that did not do anything either.

I was still wondering if see engines have some kind of water pressure switch that if there is no water in the engine that it will not start or crank? What would happen if you did start it out of the water with no fake a lake or anything? Thanks for all your help everyone!

The neutral safety switch is located on the side of your transmission. It is black and about the size of a quarter. It has two wires connected to it. Unscrew the wires and cross them. Then try starting the boat. If it fires, there is a good chance that's your problem. Also it could be the ignition switch. I was having an intermittent problem with my boat not starting. I replaced the neutral safety switch, but it didn't fix the problem. I ended up taking it to the mechanic and all he had to do was replace the ignition switch. Problem solved! If I had figured it out myself it would have only been a $40 fix...oh well. live and learn

[lukeusc]

Ok, I cleaned up all the connections from the battery to the starter and also from the battery to the fuse panel. Still nothing. I even went as far as using a set of jumper cables to see if maybe their was something I was missing. Still nothing. If I arc across the positive terminal on the starter to the solenoid, it does sound like the starter is engaging but it is not pushing the flywheel around. I have not yet tried to pull all the plugs and try it to see if it would crank over. Can try that next if that sounds like it may truly be a possibility. I was also wondering about the neutral safety switch and where it is located or how to test it? Also open to any other ideas to check. I did try switching around the relays but that did not do anything either.

I was still wondering if see engines have some kind of water pressure switch that if there is no water in the engine that it will not start or crank? What would happen if you did start it out of the water with no fake a lake or anything? Thanks for all your help everyone!

I am telling you it is possible to get water into your cylinders, if the starter is clicking and not turning over I would bet this may be your problem

[christopher.Smiley]

Success!!

So I took the advice and pulled the spark plugs but still nothing. Realizing that the ground wire to the engine still had not been cleaned up, I used a set of jumper cables and attached the negative from the battery to an engine bolt, said a prayer and then turned the key...and it spun! Let it spin for 10 seconds, then off for a few minutes. Repeated this several times to clear whatever was in the cylinders. Put the plugs back in, turned the key a few times and she fired right up!

Thank you all for the advice and recommendations! Special thanks to engine nut for his expertise. This website has easily saved me thousands of dollars! It is awesome!

Thanks again everyone!

[torresben]

This sounds like an issue I had a while back. I tried everything else, then finally bit the bullet and replaced the starter - problem solved.

Easy enough to check voltage at the solenoid upon keying up the starter. If that checks out, may be time to replace it. Mine even bench tested "fine" according to the starter shop, but that was under no load, it was junk and had apparently gotten wet courtesy of the prior owner.

fyi, the safety lanyard doesn't prevent cranking as far as I know, it allows cranking even when pulled. It prevents running.

Neutral safety switch does prevent cranking.

New starter came with solenoid attached, skidim.com.

[torresben]

i read your note on difference between neutral switch and kill switch. so i have a kill switch issue. i can crank but something is stopping it from running. my 2005 malibu wakesetter 23lsv is new to us, it stopped suddenly in the water after several hours of use. just like pulling the kill switch. after investigating, we can see the previous owner by passed the kill switch. how do i know the wiring for the kill switch is all working properly, even if it is bypassed? I just need it to run, feels like something is preventing it. all fuel issues have been checked out and are fine. thanks for the help. labor day weekend and we are high and dry til i figure this out...