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skisix@38

Monza Review

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Some background first to establish a reference and style. I ski in M3 and get through 38 off 50% of the time skiing on a 68.5" 04 Carbonworx Outlaw. I have been skiing on KD CR7's and other round beveled skis for the past 6 years starting with the KD7000. Before that I was riding the HO's.

I got a 68" Monza and set it up to 6.83" length, 2.53" depth and .73" DFT, I was told these were the cold water numbers- my water is 55F right now. I mounted my boots neutral at first, front approach and rear venom(RFF).

My first pass the ski fell off the side going around 1 ball at 28"-this is a very easy pass for me and I had the boat going 33mph. I tried again and fell at the 2 ball because I was very late after one ball. I couldn't get the ski to finish the turn, I also felt like I had to put a substantial amount of effort into getting the ski to swing under me to my turning edge after the second wake. I suspected that the ski didn't want to go slow so I shortened to 32 off. Here I was able to run the pass but it wasn't pretty-I scraped the whole time. And I went in because this just wasn't working.

My second set I moved my front boot back and left the back one alone. I started with this because one it was the easiest thing to do and two because I though that more ski needed to be in the water and fin tuning is for very fine adjustments and I needed more course adjustment. This time I went out at 32 and sped the boat back to 34mph. I struggled with two passes at first but it was starting to turn now. I was able to run this pass without scraping so I shortened to 35 and ran that pass too, although it took all that had to do it. I never tried 38.

My impression of this ski is that I could probably get it to work but it is not well suited to my style of skiing, not that I'm "new school, west coast" or whatever but it seems to me like this ski wants to be driven very hard and then it performs. Some have said that "this ski really hooks up hard after the ball" and I think that is only true if it is driven hard going into the ball. I didn't think that is was very fast when riding it but when I got back on my CBX and skied I thought my ski was a slower- like the tail was sitting deeper in the water. I never could get consistent turns from one side to the other with the Monza. If I came in early to the ball and had time to turn on a wide arc the ski wouldn't finish, it would start to stall and then catch suddenly and shoot off to the other side but by then I would have lost 8-10 down course and would need to make sharp turns and go hard right off the ball. There is where the ski seemed to be well suited. That's going to be the nature of 39-43 off but I'm not there and I need to run the 28's-35's to before I get to 38. With my style of skiing I can do much more with consistent turns and ski that swings under me into the next ball then a little extra speed. My CBX felt comfortable under me from the very first set and it has gotten even better since, I'll stick with it and see you folks at nationals.

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doughickey

Great review. Thanks.

Which HO's were you originally skiing?

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NorCaliBu

Thanks for the review. It also tells me a little about the CBX ski. The fact that you came from Kidder skis, you like the Outlaw, you don't like HO...I have found that people usually like the KD7000/CR7 type shape or they like HO's. I have tried both KD7000's & CR-7's and had an experience similar to your Monza run (albeit not at 35 off). I could not make the ski do what I wanted it to do. HO just seems to fit my "style" of skiing, although I think the Monza is too much ski for me.

Anyone ridden the Goode 9600? I'm thinking about a 34mph version, either that or possibly a System 8.

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kstateskier

Skis6, do you have any experience with the Phantom? I'm have a weird little mix of style that I have picked up through training with different people. I am trying to transition to the west coast style, but I load hard out of the buoy and have a really hard pull. I'm not a good turning skier. Last year I was running 32' off at 36mph probably 33% of the time. 28' is about 90% right now. I'm wondering if I should upgrade to the Monza from my '02 Phantom or try moving to something like the D3 X5. My roommate has a Monza but I haven't gotten out on it yet, and he's only a 15'-22' off skier, so I don't know how much info I can did out of him.

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Boomer

Shows you how much I know about ski's nowdays.. I kept seeing this topic, and thought you were reviewing an old Chevy...

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Skis6, do you have any experience with the Phantom?  I'm have a weird little mix of style that I have picked up through training with different people.  I am trying to transition to the west coast style, but I load hard out of the buoy and have a really hard pull.  I'm not a good turning skier.  Last year I was running 32' off at 36mph probably 33% of the time.  28' is about 90% right now.  I'm wondering if I should upgrade to the Monza from my '02 Phantom or try moving to something like the D3 X5.  My roommate has a Monza but I haven't gotten out on it yet, and he's only a 15'-22' off skier, so I don't know how much info I can did out of him.

I only have a few sets on a phantom and my experience is similar there as with the Monza(I could get through 35 on the phantom too). The Monza should be a better turning ski because it has a more radiused bevel, in contrast with the squared bevels on the phantom. I feel like both skis want to maintatin a very high average speed to turn in and with a very short radius then go hard again. That's not my style. You might try the D3 as that ski will help your turns out- it may not be you that turns poorly. Or, you could give a carbonworx a shot. It seemed to me that the cbx rolls under me off the second wake more easily and more quickly, then it turns with an arc(not a snap), and finally finishes out in front of me and set up with good angle. Rarely will I get caught at the ball with the ski behind me, and I was getting that way on the Monza a lot. That could be and probably means a different fin set up would work better and reduce that affect.

I hope that helps.

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UWSkier

All the pictures I've seen of Chris on the Monza show him with the fin dang near coming out of the water. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast.

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VinRLX

6, thanks for posting your review. There are those of us who don't have the good fortune of skiing with experienced skiers and definitely benefit from insight from guys like you. Thanks again.

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kstateskier

The other day I couldn't keep up with the Phantom. My form is ugly right now. It was wanting to come out in front in my transition. I couldn't get the outward arc I wanted on the ski, so the turns were really rough, not a smooth progression. When I'm skiing well, I can get a good arc on it and can come through the turn holding pretty good speed and then slam on the gas.

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HRemington
6, thanks for posting your review. There are those of us who don't have the good fortune of skiing with experienced skiers and definitely benefit from insight from guys like you. Thanks again.

too bad guys like me can only absorb the insights and not the talent :(

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whiteVLX
Shows you how much I know about ski's nowdays.. I kept seeing this topic, and thought you were reviewing an old Chevy...

Funny that was the first thing I though of as well.

Nice review, even if I don't know what it all means. :)

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The other day I couldn't keep up with the Phantom.  My form is ugly right now.  It was wanting to come out in front in my transition.  I couldn't get the outward arc I wanted on the ski, so the turns were really rough, not a smooth progression.  When I'm skiing well, I can get a good arc on it and can come through the turn holding pretty good speed and then slam on the gas.

"When I'm skiing well, I can get a good arc on it and can come through the turn holding pretty good speed and then slam on the gas."

I don't know why you would need or want to slam on the gas if you're maintaining your speed through the turn? Schnitz had a good article on this just recently, but the gist of it is: If you get enough angle and speed you get to the other side TOO early and then neccessarily have to parallel the boat for a period of time. to get in this position you have to be going fast already, add to that the speed you won't shed because you are going parallel to the boat=disaster! bye bye, swim to shore and take the long walk back. While I don't claim to understand/believe in "coordinates" I do think there is something to maintaining a consistent speed.

Hank: "too bad guys like me can only absorb the insights and not the talent" If you keep listening and thinking about it off the water you'll catch on when you get to the water! Hang in there but, most of all- have fun.

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I went from the KD7000 to the CDX and I had a difficult time with the Monza I tried as well and the Phantom is too stiff for me. I have been on a CDX for the last two seasons and just this morning I ordered a new CDX from Wiley's to keep as a replacement. I have not found anything I like better. I am running into 38 off at 34 at my best.

Thanks for the review it supported my CDX purchase.

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Rod S

RE Phantom not turning: My ski partner skis a phantom into 38 at 34mph. It doesn't want to turn unless he really counter rotates then it does well for him. Seems like he only misses if he doesn't get countered into the turn.

I ski a D3 normally and tried a Monza earlier this year (until my old whiplash injury reared it's ugly head again). After a couple sets out on it I ran right up to my PB of last year on the D3 (mid 32 off). I was amazed as I hadn't skied in 4-5 months, had no endurance and ran 28's back to back, wide backsiding with ease. My conditioning killed me by the time I went at 32. I found the offside turn was a dream. I could do no wrong and basically "pass out" going into 2,4,6 and "come to" at the wakes and be in great position. My onside was a little more problematic as it really wanted me to reach in the turn. If I didn't I ended up with a double pull but still able to get to the next ball without being too late. I agree you cannot ride flat into the turn on this ski, it wants to be on edge. It also has a wicked onside turn. if you are up on the ski, counter rotated and not expecting the snap. I got used to it but it was the tightest Z turn I've ever experience even compared to schnitz's slot fin on my old ski. I can see where it might cause one to pull too soon at the ball and give it up at the wake. If you can still keep your main pull from whitewater to whitewater it gets you there early and wide. 2 cents from a disabled, out of shape, old guy.

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HRemington

the west coast new school style of opening up the upper body in the turn, counter rotating it almost toward the shore...but you'll have to ask somebody that knows how to ski what that is supposed to do. :)

Edited by HRemington

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Rod S

It just throws your back out of place, doesn't do anything for your skiing.

Biggrin.gif

Edited by Rod S

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mlange

Maybe someone can chime in here and explain this for me (I really DON'T like the SkiFly discussion boards and don't want to ask it there).

I think I understand the whole idea of why Coordinates could help your ball count, although an official definition would be nice.

What I really don't understand is how counter rotating as with the West Coast Style would help your ski come around better. I would think it would slow things down.

Mike

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Maybe someone can chime in here and explain this for me (I really DON'T like the SkiFly discussion boards and don't want to ask it there).

I think I understand the whole idea of why Coordinates could help your ball count, although an official definition would be nice. 

What I really don't understand is how counter rotating as with the West Coast Style would help your ski come around better.  I would think it would slow things down.

Mike

Whooooooooaaaa! This is getting dangerously close to a technical talk about slalom.

Counter rotation is a process of opening your shoulders to the boat while turning, done correctly it also keeps your free hand close to your body. Why is this good? What this does is to keep you weight centered on the ski(not back) and to keep your upper body from coming forward. The weight centered allows the ski to have a nice arc, in contrast to a snap. The upper body part ensure that when the boat picks you back up you'll be in a position to resist. When not counter rotating a skier may have a tendency to over turn or be out of position when the boat picks you up. The requisite to counter rotating is that you make an edge change with you arm in tight to you body so that the ski is swinging under you and maintaining it outward direction relative to the boat.

I don't know what "coordinates" mean but, I think what those who use the term are trying to do is to use a path of skiing that is efficient. If you are running later than this path then you would need to turn harder and thus accelerate more out of the ball and then decelerate more at the next ball. If you are running earlier then this path you are having to put more effort into the pass because you are accelerating more then you need and arriving to the next ball earlier and have to wait and make a larger arcing turn-thus slowing the ski down more than needed and then accelerating again.

Rod S. : If that's your friends experience with that ski, I would think that he is riding on the tail and the counter rotation is bringing his weight forward to get more ski in the water.

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Rod S

Skisix- You wouldn't believe how much kneebend he has. It looks like he is sitting on his bindings thru the wakes. Then to see this guy decompress or expand and stand up in the turn is truly something else. The length of the ski is what I think gets him in the turns but he loves the speed of the long board. He is on a 68 and weighs 165lbs!!!

As far as the Monza ski the 3 monza 38off skiers I know all downsized. One skiers comment was, " at 195lbs the only thing the 68" did for me was make me really early, just how early do I need to be?" They are all on 67s now all of them in the 190-200lbs range.

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UWSkier

I find that if I counter-rotate somewhat with my back elbow pointing backwards, my shoulders are in the perfect position to absorb the pull. This seems to be more effective for me on my off-side than my on-side though.

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smooth as glass

Ski6, Youre certainly deeper into the course than I am theses days, but I thought the counter rotation was in the turn and opening shoulders to the bank outbound to increase the swing of the ski from under you! Are you saying open shoulders to boat at end of turn? That doesnt seem so new, or I dont understand getting into position at end of turn. Expand if u will. BTW Schnitzes discussion of coordinates is pretty detailed on his site if u dig deep enough. But I think u hit it pretty well.

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