marine grade wire?

[Chia]

Maybe you should look a little closer and see how the context of the thread changed you dumb donkey

We were oringally talking about wire and I posted a link to wire. The thread changed to connectors and I posted a link to connectors.

Dumb donkey LOL, what a child. I said link to that website retard. Funy you calling me a dumb donkey after your rediculous Exile rant.

TOU

[BSUBU_Kris]

Most connections in a marine environment will be crimped and heat shrinked with marine grade wire. Soldering doesn't work as well because of the vibration you get with boats. The vibration can cause the solder to crack over time. The marine grade wire also generally will have more strands which makes it more flexible which helps with the vibration. That said, I have just used regular connectors without heat shrink on some stereo connections in the past and never had any issues. I do store my boat indoors so it was never exposed to moisure for long periods of time. When I am doing wiring for critical systems I use the heat shrink and marine grade wire. The cost isn't that much more.

[Bobby Light]

TOU

?

[85 Barefoot]

i don't do disagreements very well but i will post this one last time in this topic.

i've worked at one of the foremost testing labs in the world for more than 32 years.

all of that time has been spend collecting real world data from customer owned automobiles; a pretty nasty environment.

i've installed miles of multi-conductor teflon coated shielded wire to strain gauged components that have managed to stay healthy for years in the field.

i can tell you that, without a doubt, i would not trust that connector to stay water tight overnight.

yes, the people selling it say it's water-tight. i strongly suspect that they are hoping to sell some of their product.

if you want a healthy connection it will be soldered, not crimped, and it will have much more water intrusion protection.

can you look at that connector and really believe it's going to maintain integrity?

i can guarantee that if it does it's just by luck. not in my boat.

tv, no picking arg, but are we all on the same page that after the crimp is made the conenctor is heated and the surrounding material "melts" around the crimp and wires? I have used these connections and see no way that water would make it in. As they currently look, of course, but after properly heating, it's like one sealed connection. Are we comparing apples and apples?

[Chia]

TOU

1. are libelous, defamatory, hateful, obscene, abusive, pornographic, threatening, or an invasion of privacy (this includes posting personal insults toward other members);

[Bobby Light]

Sir yes sir

[Murphy8166]

Dumb donkey LOL, what a child. I said link to that website retard. Funy you calling me a dumb donkey after your rediculous Exile rant.

06 - let it go. I have no beef with exile, I said my peace, and I am done.

You have a problem. At first I thought is was that you and I did not get along but after seeing how you treat other members on this forum - it is clear that you will always argue till your death and that you will always attempt to get the last word no matter what. You are always attacking people.

Oh and you are always right about everything. You personally make this forum un-enjoyable.

[Bobby Light]

06 - let it go. I have no beef with exile, I said my peace, and I am done.

You have a problem. At first I thought is was that you and I did not get along but after seeing how you treat other members on this forum - it is clear that you will always argue till your death and that you will always attempt to get the last word no matter what. You are always attacking people.

Oh and you are always right about everything. You personally make this forum un-enjoyable.

Ok feel better? See ya.

[skyskier]

I twist the wire together and wrap the connection with black tape. FYI, national electric code calls for a minimum of three wraps.

[JDubya]

OK, now I totally feel ignorant.... how do you crimp and solder the same connection?

I use spade type connectors that crimp to the wire. Then I solder all connections, filling in each connection with solder on both ends (crimp and spade connections). Then I cover the entire connection in heat shrink or liquid insualtion.

Prob an overkill but never had a problem with lose connection.

Spade connector:

[shawndoggy]

I use spade type connectors that crimp to the wire. Then I solder all connections, filling in each connection with solder on both ends (crimp and spade connections). Then I cover the entire connection in heat shrink or liquid insualtion.

Prob an overkill but never had a problem with lose connection.

Spade connector:

But that leaves you with a crimp at both ends of the connection, just like a butt splice.... I'm not sure how I see that crimp-solder-crimp is any better than crimp-solid metal-crimp for connection purposes. Seems like more points for failure (the solder and the spade).

And the adhesive heat shrink butt splices get all gooey when you heat them to seal up the end of the crimp, unlike standard heat shrink, which just shrinks.

[JDubya]

But that leaves you with a crimp at both ends of the connection, just like a butt splice.... I'm not sure how I see that crimp-solder-crimp is any better than crimp-solid metal-crimp for connection purposes. Seems like more points for failure (the solder and the spade).

And the adhesive heat shrink butt splices get all gooey when you heat them to seal up the end of the crimp, unlike standard heat shrink, which just shrinks.

Valid point sir. Touche.

[DONTW8]

This has been an interesting thread to watch.

I claim no expertise over the other posters.

I was a card carrying IBEW member over 4 decades ago.

I was a commercial / industrial electrician for a few years until late 1969.

I am not afraid of wiring.

I never wired a house. I did work electricity "hot" at KOIN - TV Channel 6 in Portland.

For 40 + years I have used my handy dandy Belden brand crimping tool and the garden variety crimp type connectors for all kinds of chores on my cars, trucks, boats, trailers and so forth. I have been called to service on my buddies electrical projects because they know my background. I have not seen a reason NOT to trust a crimp connector on 12 volt. On vehicles I always use the multiple strand wiring available everywhere. For boats and trucks I prefer a closed end connector if the connection is critical.

http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/cecc678e-4638-416a-b8d2-05ef348abf33.aspx

For wiring anything 120 + volt I would never ever depend on electricians tape to make your splice. I always use a ScotchLock or competing brand UL approved connector. If your splice joint is not perfect the splice will heat up and this is what causes some house fires. Aluminum wire will work itself loose over time due to heating and cooling so stay away from that.

If you do not make a perfect workmanlike splice you are asking for trouble. Never allow your splice to be where it can be submerged in water. Elevate the wire and get it out of harm's way.

My three rules of wiring:

1. There are two kinds of electricians: Those that have been shocked and those that will be shocked.

2. The trick is to not get shocked when working "HOT" 480 volt.

3. Always turn off the juice on the circuit you are working on , unless it shuts down the TV station.

BTW: Its a GROUNDING connector not a Bonding connector.

Edited April 9, 2011 by DONTW8

[scott_fx]

This has been an interesting thread to watch.

I claim no expertise over the other posters.

I was a card carrying IBEW member over 4 decades ago.

I was a commercial / industrial electrician for a few years until late 1969.

I am not afraid of wiring.

I never wired a house. I did work electricity "hot" at KOIN - TV Channel 6 in Portland.

For 40 + years I have used my handy dandy Belden brand crimping tool and the garden variety crimp type connectors for all kinds of chores on my cars, trucks, boats, trailers and so forth. I have been called to service on my buddies electrical projects because they know my background. I have not seen a reason NOT to trust a crimp connector on 12 volt. On vehicles I always use the multiple strand wiring available everywhere. For boats and trucks I prefer a closed end connector if the connection is critical.

http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/cecc678e-4638-416a-b8d2-05ef348abf33.aspx

For wiring anything 120 + volt I would never ever depend on electricians tape to make your splice. I always use a ScotchLock or competing brand UL approved connector. If your splice joint is not perfect the splice will heat up and this is what causes some house fires. Aluminum wire will work itself loose over time due to heating and cooling so stay away from that.

If you do not make a perfect workmanlike splice you are asking for trouble. Never allow your splice to be where it can be submerged in water. Elevate the wire and get it out of harm's way.

My three rules of wiring:

1. There are two kinds of electricians: Those that have been shocked and those that will be shocked.

2. The trick is to not get shocked when working "HOT" 480 volt.

3. Always turn off the juice on the circuit you are working on , unless it shuts down the TV station.

BTW: Its a GROUNDING connector not a Bonding connector.

curious, why do you prefer closed end connectors in critical areas? what are the advantages?

[martinarcher]

i don't do disagreements very well but i will post this one last time in this topic.

i've worked at one of the foremost testing labs in the world for more than 32 years.

all of that time has been spend collecting real world data from customer owned automobiles; a pretty nasty environment.

i've installed miles of multi-conductor teflon coated shielded wire to strain gauged components that have managed to stay healthy for years in the field.

i can tell you that, without a doubt, i would not trust that connector to stay water tight overnight.

yes, the people selling it say it's water-tight. i strongly suspect that they are hoping to sell some of their product.

if you want a healthy connection it will be soldered, not crimped, and it will have much more water intrusion protection.

can you look at that connector and really believe it's going to maintain integrity?

i can guarantee that if it does it's just by luck. not in my boat.

This man knows what he's talking about. We do similar real world wiring in really really nasty environments at work. I've spent hours underground chasing bad crimp connectors, but never had to fix a solder joint that suffered from water ingress. I solder everything for a reason. You won't find a butt splice installed by me....ever. The ones that come with fog light kits and other accessories are immediately thrown away and the soldering iron is busted out.

Someone mentioned soldering is bad for vibration.....

Edited April 9, 2011 by martinarcher

[DONTW8]

For the critical splices I can strip my wire to be the exact correct length to fit into the closed end connector.

The way those connectors work the exposed copper strands from the "IN" wire is in direct contact with the "OUT" wire.

My circuit has more surface area of contact because the joint is being made directly wire to wire as well as being conducted around the perimeter of the connector itself.

Because the splice itself is a larger diameter I have a better chance of crimping my splice perfectly.

When I finish my splice, I will pull with all of my might to try to pull the joint apart.

If neither wire moves I know I made a good splice.

Especially handy because I am right there with my trusty Belden crimper to create a new good splice.

I have used the common "butt splices" too although I much prefer the closed end connector pictured above .

http://www.elecdirect.com/catalog/cecc678e-4638-416a-b8d2-05ef348abf33.aspx

I buy a big bag of the large (4mm inside diameter) of them and utilize those on multiple sizes of wire so I do not need as many size permutations.

Edited April 9, 2011 by DONTW8

[D-GOOSE]

This man knows what he's talking about. We do similar real world wiring in really really nasty environments at work. I've spent hours underground chasing bad crimp connectors, but never had to fix a solder joint that suffered from water ingress. I solder everything for a reason. You won't find a butt splice installed by me....ever. The ones that come with fog light kits and other accessories are immediately thrown away and the soldering iron is busted out.

Someone mentioned soldering is bad for vibration.....

So you are a fan of scotch locks !! I love scotch locks

JK they have given me many of headaches over the yrs.