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Our BU finally arrived...Issues


AustnJPR

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Man...this sounds like an April Fool's Day joke. Too bad it's not very funny.

Sorry to hear you're going through all this.

I wish! Would be the most epic April Fool's joke in history.

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Update: I tried some 3M rubbing compound on an orbital buffer followed by 3M Finesse It II... This was followed by Meguiar's flagship marine wax.

This process was tested on a small area and while it looks ton's better, it is still not what it should be.

I got in touch with my local BU dealer and they referred me to a gel coat repair/restoration guy near my home. Gel Coat Jim. So I took the day off today and took it in for them to have a look. They put the boat up on a lift and proceeded to deflate my boat buying balloon faster than I ever thought possible. On top of the "gouges" caused by the shrink wrap they pointed out previous gel work that was performed and also a spider crack on the starboard side about mid ship that was the size of a quarter or so. There also appeared to be traces of dried silicone on the bottom of the boat that we are not quite sure of the source yet. To top it all off, for the areas along the sides to be repaired the decals will have to be removed and replaced. I was a bit shocked at the price for 06' replacement decals! :( The folks at Malibu have been very helpful in getting factory color gel and replacement decals. (which they still had)

Anyway the story has a lot more to it, as far as dealing with the dealer that we purchased the boat from. After all the pics and documentation comes back I will update again. Just as a tid bit though, someone at the dealership went so far as to imply that my shipper may have damaged the boat and had gel work done! I'm thinking that Wayne with Autokraft would not think that funny. They insist that there were no signs of any previous gel work when the boat left. The guy here says it's old work and not very good work at that... Grab the popcorn and stay tuned because I'm learning boat buying lessons at a break neck pace! :cry:

Glad the buffing cleaned it up well - I'd hit it again with the same steps until you get desired results.

Regarding the previous gelcoat work/damage, not sure I am following. Are you saying that you can look at the hull and tell that there has been previous work done? When you look at the boat, do you see what this gel coat shop is talking about in terms of previous damage (aside from the spider crack that is)?

Who is your local Malibu dealer? Why not take it to them to confirm what the gel coat guy is telling you - sounds really fishy to me. Your local Bu dealer can also run the Hull ID and confirm if there has been any previous issues with the boat.

Hopefully they're making a mountain out of a molehill and it all turns out to be a false alarm!

-- Mike

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Sorry to hear about your issues but try not to let them get you down too much. It is an awesome looking boat. I

would have thought for sure that 3m rubbing compound followed by the 3m finesse it would have cured your woes. I

have picked up a few similar looking "smudges" on my boat caused by trailering with my cover. It is a rankin and supposed to

be trailerable but it came a little to big on the sides so I get a little bit of flapping. It has caused some rub marks in the gel

where the velcro hooks are under the cover. (i have since learned to put microfiber towels under these hooks if I have to

trailer with the cover) I was able to remove those marks as well as a few others here and there with the 3m products.

I am sure the gel guy will be able to get you fixed up. Good luck and post some more pics when you get a chance!

By the way, looks like your son could care less about some scuffs...let's get this

sucker wet Dad!

Tim

Edited by DUKENO1
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martinarcher

Bummer man. I agree - Wayne would certainly not so that. He's a stand up guy and is fully insured and would never cover up an issue like that. Can't imagine you could even pull off having it repaired in such a short amount of time.

Good luck....hoping for the best!

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Sorry man, but I've seen boats from the factory come looking like that, some who knows what they're doing with a buffer and maybe some 1500 grit sandpaper can fix in an hour.

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Glad the buffing cleaned it up well - I'd hit it again with the same steps until you get desired results.

Regarding the previous gelcoat work/damage, not sure I am following. Are you saying that you can look at the hull and tell that there has been previous work done? When you look at the boat, do you see what this gel coat shop is talking about in terms of previous damage (aside from the spider crack that is)?

Who is your local Malibu dealer? Why not take it to them to confirm what the gel coat guy is telling you - sounds really fishy to me. Your local Bu dealer can also run the Hull ID and confirm if there has been any previous issues with the boat.

Hopefully they're making a mountain out of a molehill and it all turns out to be a false alarm!

-- Mike

My local dealer is Central Texas Water Sports... The guys shop I have my boat at was recommended by them and his shop happens to be on my side of the lake. The previous gel repairs looked like scratches to me. However he pointed out that what looks like a scratch was actually poorly matched gel work. There is even a spot toward the bottom of the boat that he (gel repair guy) said looked like paint was used to touch it up. I am awaiting a full history from them on the hull ID. We have also been in touch with Malibu directly to discuss the dealer we purchased from as well as their perspective on the history of the boat. We are also getting the gel and new decals directly from Malibu. After much more research we have discovered that most places don't like to wrap dark colored boats for shipping without using foam blocks to reduce rubbing. They (dealer we purchased from) tried to blame the fact that the boat was wrapped with the tower up and that this caused more drag and increased the rubbing effect on the hull. I felt that they should have used their experience to package and ship the boat. In fact it was their suggestion on wrapping the boat with the tower up due to the speakers and lights that are installed. The spider crack has just been the icing on the cake. We still have yet to fix the non working tower lights or the cabin speakers. At this point my stress levels and heartache over the purchase of the BU and the money spent on our "mint condition, low hour, perfect color" toy has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I asked all the right questions and felt that I took all the right precautions. In the end it will get made right, it just cost more than it should.

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Bummer man. I agree - Wayne would certainly not so that. He's a stand up guy and is fully insured and would never cover up an issue like that. Can't imagine you could even pull off having it repaired in such a short amount of time.

Good luck....hoping for the best!

Exactly what I told them! They insist that it was flawless when it left and that there had never been any gel repairs (that they knew of or could see). They said that there was noway to verify what had happened on its 2000 mile trip to us.

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The Crew At CTWS Rocks!! :rockon: Kenny will make sure it get's done right!!!

Haven't talked to Kenny, but Kevin and Rob have always been great to us.

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Exactly what I told them! They insist that it was flawless when it left and that there had never been any gel repairs (that they knew of or could see). They said that there was noway to verify what had happened on its 2000 mile trip to us.

That is a bit of weasle work there. As for the silicone on the bottom of the hull, if there was no gel repairs I would then say 100% that it is from the factory. I had silicone stuck on my hull from when they gooped in the gorilla fins, prop shaft and strut and the tards wiped their fingers off on my hull, so good chance it was just that.

PS, you have a very nice boat, and by summer hopefully this will all be behind you and no longer a big deal.

Edited by MalibuTime
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Once everything is fixed....will you be able enjoy the boat?...... looks like this has cut you pretty deep..... keep it in perspective you have a lifestyle that allows you to own a very nice boat and family to enjoy it with. The family time on the boat out weights every scratch and ding 1000 times. I am not saying the dealer shouldn't step up but this looks like it has been all consuming for you.

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Haven't talked to Kenny, but Kevin and Rob have always been great to us.

Kenny Weeks is the shop manager, You'll meet him if you need work done by CTWS. Rob and Paul are also great guy's as well, They have been exceptional to work with. I'm about to have my boat shipped from CTWS in the next 3-4 weeks. After seeing your post I ordered a Evolution cover and I'm getting Corey to shipped it to CTWS so it can be put on the boat for it's long ride home. :thumbup:

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I dont know who the dealer was but it is a 5 yr old boat. To be honest they probably had no clue about gel repair,If its on the bottom and just looks like a scratch imo it probably is a scratch or gouge somebody touched up with paint. Sorry These are small issues, stop stressin and enjoy the time you get to spend with your family. Happy boating. :)

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Sorry to hear about all the problems. I have to agree with other posters though, it's a great looking boat. You might feel better after you spend some one-on-one time with her. I enjoy working on mine and don't really think there are any perfect boats, even brand new ones.

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Man, I do feel for you. Try not to be too bummed. Live and learn. Your boat is now in good hands. Sounds like your gelcoat peeps are better than 90% of marine surveyors out there! Help me understand something; how big of a 'repair' or repairs are we talking about? Where are they located? Did it look like the previous owner hit a stump on the bottom or a dock on the side of the boat?

What dealer did you get this from?

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My local dealer is Central Texas Water Sports... The guys shop I have my boat at was recommended by them and his shop happens to be on my side of the lake. The previous gel repairs looked like scratches to me. However he pointed out that what looks like a scratch was actually poorly matched gel work. There is even a spot toward the bottom of the boat that he (gel repair guy) said looked like paint was used to touch it up. I am awaiting a full history from them on the hull ID. We have also been in touch with Malibu directly to discuss the dealer we purchased from as well as their perspective on the history of the boat. We are also getting the gel and new decals directly from Malibu. After much more research we have discovered that most places don't like to wrap dark colored boats for shipping without using foam blocks to reduce rubbing. They (dealer we purchased from) tried to blame the fact that the boat was wrapped with the tower up and that this caused more drag and increased the rubbing effect on the hull. I felt that they should have used their experience to package and ship the boat. In fact it was their suggestion on wrapping the boat with the tower up due to the speakers and lights that are installed. The spider crack has just been the icing on the cake. We still have yet to fix the non working tower lights or the cabin speakers. At this point my stress levels and heartache over the purchase of the BU and the money spent on our "mint condition, low hour, perfect color" toy has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I asked all the right questions and felt that I took all the right precautions. In the end it will get made right, it just cost more than it should.

Central TX Watersports has an awesome reputation - never bought from them but did some window shopping when in Austin area (used to live in Dallas and hit Lake Travis at least once a year).

Anyway, I am going to go out on a limb to hopefully make you feel better. I have owned four boats myself, and I grew up in a boating family since I was 8 years old. I have some serious hours at the helm. And guess what: I've still scratched a hull accidentially. And being the anal person I am that wants a perfect rig, I had the damage repaired. One repair I had done the gel matched perfectly, you could not tell. The other time I could see it ever so slightly, although everyone I showed the repair to thought I was insane and needed to relax a little. I think some colors are just harder to match and the others. If your boat had hit a rock that knocked a hole in the hull and delaminated the fiberglass, that's a completely different issue and one worthy of possibly going after the dealer. A scratch repair is commonplace on used boats. Since we can't see the repaired gel work, only you can decide for yourself if it is something that bothers you enough to have it re-repaired. If it is not really visible without very close inspection and the decals cover some/most of it, I would let it go. Again, only you can make that decision. If it is super glossly and smooth but the color is just off ever so slightly - like you would probably not notice had this gel coat guy pointed it out to you, then I don't see this as a problem worthy of repair.

I feel your pain because I bought a used boat last year sight unseen. A very generous CREW member that was local to the boat went to see it any give me his opinion, which made me feel better about buying it. I had it shipped (without a cover). It was dirty when it got here after 700+ miles, but cleaning it all up gave me a chance to crawl over every inch of it. There were some marks here and there, but most of them waxed or wet-sanded out and it looks like a million bucks. I liked the used boat price vs new boat price, and my used is probably a 9+ on a scale of 10 compared to a new one. I'll take it.

As for a spider crack "the size of a quarter", if you hit a stick/log/debris, it can cause a small spider crack like you describe. With a 23 ft boat sitting on a trailer with bunks, axles, and braces covering up a large amount of the square footage, a small mark like that could very easily be overlooked. You need to weed out "normal wear and tear" of a boat that is 5+ model years old vs what the dealer may or may not have tried to cover up.

You are going to use the boat, and sh*t happens when you use them. Over the years, you'll hit a log and chip the gel on the chine. You will hit a log and bend a blade on the prop. The wind will be blowing in exactly the opposite direction an inboard wants to back up in reverse, and you'll kiss the dock in the ONLY place not protected by soft, rubber trim. Your wife, God bless her, will hit a guide post on the trailer and break the plastic post. A "rookie" boating friend will slide the wakeboard across the engine cover and the fin will slice it like butter. Your little boy (the one visible in the one pic you posted earlier) looks like he likes nacho cheese doritos and the carpet is the perfect place to wipe ones hands. :-)

Enjoy boating, keep your rig as perfect as you can, but don't let it ruin the expereince and fun of boating in the first place. It is not a museum piece or a collector car.

Lastly, I am confident that those marks on the black from the shrink wrap will come off with the right "blend" of possibly wet sand/compound/polish/wax. If the 3M steps you took got it 80% of the way there, hit the cleaner a few more times, followed by Finesse It and you'll hit 100%.

Hope this helps you feel better. Your boat is absolutely gorgeous!

-- Mike

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There are a lot of great posts with good advice on this thread. I recently bought a car that looked great, but I've since discovered some stuff that perplexed me, but I've done the work and can now enjoy it more! I was the same as you, the description didn't match my expectation or perception of what was described.

My experience with Sundown has been good and I don't see them as the type to compromise their morals for a quick sell, but I live 2.5 hours away and haven't taken the boat there many times.

Hopefully this will all get worked out and you can start loving the time on the lake!

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I am with the dealership that sold this consignment boat & I can tell you that this boat came into the dealership in great shape & left for the trip to Texas in great shape. I can also say with 99.9% certainty that this boat has never been wrecked as we were the original boat owners selling & servicing dealer. We are very sorry that the new owner is not 100% satisfied with his purchase but this is to no fault of our own. We sent him almost 100 photos & had countless telephone & email coversations regarding the condition of this boat. Is there shrinkwrap glue on the boat? Probably. Did the shrinkwrap wear on the gelcoat in some spots? Maybe. I guarantee that had the owner come to our store to purchase the boat he would have seen the boat for what it was, a 5 year old 23 Wakesetter in immaculate condition. But he did not do that. His first in person glimpse of the boat was after a 2,000 mile trip down the highway & his new awesome Malibu was dirty & grimy. I understand that. But with a little bit of elbow grease that boat will be a stunner again i have no doubt.

As a dealer it's always a tough call whether to respond to this sort of thing & thank goodness we don't have much experience to draw from. In this situation we felt it in our best interest & the Crew's best interest to give the other side of the story. With that said we have no plans to further this argument on this forum.

Happy boating to all!

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Thanks for coming forward SS&M. I get the same impression as you.

Queez, Smitty & Mosebar are good friends of mine. I heard how that deal went down with you guys. And even after the issues with Mosebars boat, they have nothing but good things to say about your support thru it all.

I bought a boat 500 miles away from home. Even called Sundown but you didn't have "the boat" for me. When I found one I liked, I made a point to have someone who lived in the area (Portland) go look at it & give me a call on his cell. I ended up with great first impressions, cell phone pics, and way more info than the dealer had given me in all the pics & phone conversations we had. I went back to him & he made some promises that he made good on. But without that friend going by, I only had one side of the story. When we took the boat home, it made the 500 mile drive in crappy weather, and definitely needed a detail job to look like it had.

Thanks again for coming forward. Do it more often, or better yet, come by our NW WOW in June at Banks Lake! :yahoo:

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I hope both parties will continue to work through this as there are always two sides to each story. I do feel the buyers pain but after a long transport under crappy conditions s*** is bound to happen. Sometimes going that extra mile for the customer comes back 10 fold. Yes it could be partially the transport, could have been wrapped better and perhaps the purchaser is being to picky? Sounds like you guys run a pretty top notch operation, keep up the good work!

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Well, if it were me, I'd be upset too. Most dealers know of the risk of shipping a boat with shrink wrap on it. With my 2011, my bu dealer specifically told me when I ordered my boat of the risk of getting it shipped shrink wrapped, and I opted not to have it wrapped.

IMO, this dealer should have advised the customer of the risk of gel damage due to the use of shrink wrap before the boat was shipped.

Also, while the customer was sent a lot of photos, you can't pick out 99% of gel repairs from photos. Most gel repairs only show up in certain light, at certain angles, etc. To me, it was incumbent upon the dealer to go over the boat with a fine tooth comb and document all of the gel repairs, as well as any other issues (like non-working lights and speakers) - especially considering the fact that this boat was being purchased sight unseen. Yes, this guy could have flown 2000 miles to look at this boat in person before buying it, but he probably would not have bought it and the dealer would not have made the sale had that been a requirement.

I think the right thing to do is for the dealer to chip in and pay to have the boat detailed in order to remove the scuffing from shipping and to provide the replacement decals (since the dealer can get the decals at cost). The buyer should pay for the labor to have the prior gel work/repair/spider cracks fixed and the decals put on. In my mind, that's a fair resolution. Both parties end up paying a little because both could have done something to avoid this situation.

It all boils down to whether the dealer, who knows it will probably never get more business from this guy (who lives 2k miles away), will nut up and help out.

Edited by Chattwake
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I am in Dallas all week for updating my Crestron skills for work... got to pay the bills some how! :biggrin:

However I will give a detailed response to all that has been said when I get time. I'll even ask my wife chime in so as to get another perspective.

Fact is we are being told we are out in the cold so to speak from the dealer. I did however pay 1500.00 dollar deposit on a 3000.00 dollar gel coat repair job on Friday. This doesn't even cover the speakers or the lights as mentioned above. However Trey Chamrad with Hydrotunes happens to be in my Crestron class this week as well. So maybe a deal on some Wet Sounds will alleviate that problem. :clap:

Fact is that as of right now I have nothing good to say about Eric or Tyler with Sundown Sport and Marine. They have done nothing but make excuses

and I have not even asked them for a single dollar at this point. I also asked them for the contact info. for the company that wrapped the boat...

As of yet nothing has been received.

The pics of the damage are in the hands of people a bit smarter than I and as soon as I get the go ahead I will post them up.

Edited by AustnJPR
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What are laws in Texas about non-disclosed material defects? Fiberglass damage can be seen as a material defect, and depending on the state consumer laws civil liability may attach.

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I feel for you... but after purchasing three different cars (that were only 6 months old) on the east cost and having them shipped back to seattle i can tell you that there is always something this isn't "perfect" after they arrive... sometimes it's due to buying a car without flying out and seeing it (my own fault) and sometimes its due to shipping something 2000 miles. But.. in both cases a few week later everything was fixed up or buffed out (usually by me) and i am very happy with my decisions. I honestly don't think the dealer is being dis-honest here... I dont't think they were trying to sell you a boat with known issues and not disclosing them. The top gelcoat issues are likely from shipping... if they weren't in the photo's you were sent then you sort of have your answer. it sucks.. but it happens. Heck... every winter i have to buff our a few little spots where trailer covers rubs on my boat. It happens.. and 2000 miles is a long way. I understand your frustration with the other (new) issues the gelcoat shop is reporting... but you really have to ask yourself if you had flown out in person would you have seen these small defects? I don't think so. Spider cracks happen and one that's a "quarter" in size is very easy to miss. I doubt the boat shop knew of any previous gelcoat work on the boat. MY boat is in "like new" condition.. and i know if someone came to buy it today they would see that and purchase it based on that impression. I BABY my boat (maybe too much)... it's stored in my garage and gets lots of love with wax, buffers, etc. I keep all the screws tight and i keep the boat shiney. I am sure someone could show up and find plenty of "little" things wrong on my boat (it's a 2008.) I even have a few spots where i did some very minor gelcoat repair (from some small rocks while trailering and from a small scratch my wife put in the bottom while loading on the trailer (and i mean SMALL.) Did my boat need these repairs? no way.. very very minor stuff but i am anal.. so i bought a patch kit with the correct colors and went to work. If someone evaluated my boat they could claim "it's been damaged and has previous gelcoat repairs".. which is jsut silly (true..but silly)... they repairs were because i love my boat and went the extra step to keep it perfect. Anyway... I guess i am trying to say that i don't think someone is trying to screw you here. I am not sure the outcome is any different if you had showed up in person to buy the boat... you would have missed the little stuff too. You purchased a preowned 5 year old boat and it needs a few things done to make it "perfect" for you. To be honest.. even a "new" boat often needs a few things fixed... I know my 2008 had plenty of little things that had to be addressed or replaced in the first year.) So... try not to get frustrated... enjoy the new boat... it looks like it's in AWESOME condition for a 5 year old boat... fix the few things that need some work and then hit the lake and enjoy your new toy. you saved thousands over a new 2011... and like i said.. even that 2011 might have needed some things fixed.

Edited by gregtay
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