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Gas Hog or Gas Hog???


Love2Ride

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I'm going to be buying a tow vehicle in the spring (or sooner if something pops up). I'm planning on selling my explorer for something bigger, so here's my choices:

1. Sell the explorer and buy a larger SUV (expedition) with more towing capacity and stopping power. This would keep my wife and I a two vehicle family. More gas used on a daily basis as either my wife or myself would be driving it around a decent amount.

2. Sell the explorer and buy a small efficient car (fusion) to take back and forth to work, and buy a large SUV (excursion) or truck (F150 supercrew) to be used strictly as a two vehicle. This would save me on gas as I would be using the fuel efficient car to go back and forth to work, and save the gas hog for towing the BU around.

I would do my very best to have the purchase price of the two vehicles be the same as what I sold my explorer for, so I don't have to pay anything out of pocket, and I haven't done all the calculations yet to find out my break even point for the amount of gas saved to the amount that our insurance would increase, not to mention maintenance costs on another vehicle. Unless the difference in costs is outrageous, I don't really have a problem with paying for the third vehicle. I just want to get some opinions from the Crew because I'm sure some of you have asked yourselves this same question.

Thanks!!

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Go for 3 vehicles and you’ll have a spare if/when one of them breaks down.

I have:

Dodge Dakota…my daily ride

Mercury Sable…wife’s daily ride

Chevy Suburban...tow vehicle and long family trips

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Insurance cost could make the three vehicle math a little fuzzier. I'm in the same boat. Current Flex won't get the job done. Should I keep it and pickup a used truck or sell it and get a Suburban/Yukon/Expedition.

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I always had a hard time having a vehicle sitting around. Depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and reliability if its not being driven much all come into question. How much do you actually drive? And how much of that would you drive with the car?

The newer larger vehicles get relatively good gas mileage...

A bunch of generalizations here... say you average 75miles a day (thats quite a lot...), get 20mpg on the tank and 30mpg in the econobox. At 75 miles of driving a day thats a 1.25 gallon savings, at $3.10/gallon thats about 4 bucks a day savings (actually, $3.88). $4/ day savings x 20 work days in a month = $160 a month savings between driving an efficient car and a larger truck.

Thats about $2000/ year savings, before maintenance, depreciation, insurance..etc. I dont think you'd be saving much money... I know I didnt when I crunched the numbers a year ago. And if you drive less than that, the savings gets even less (but more miles would increase the savings).

Just didnt make sense to me at the time. And the comfort of not always being in 'your vehicle' when road tripping. Nothing worse than getting the family quite a ways from home in a vehicle that isnt driven much and then have it act up - something you might pickup on if you were driving it your self daily, but something that might go missed on a 3rd vehicle because its not used much, until its too late.

Another consideration would be if you were to buy a new high end SUV and really wanted to keep the miles to keep it from depreciating quickly (escalade comes into mind here), then that would be an added savings. Hard to calculate how much though, and who knows if thats something your worried about.

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I've gone periods of time being a 3 car for 2 people family (our son is 43, long out of the house) and being a 2 car family. There are obvious advantages to both. With 3 cars I'd get somewhere in my 3rd car and realize I did not have my cell phone charger, or day-timer, or whatever that I left in my Pickup. When you only drive one rig you always have those little used items on board.

If your wife drives the least then you need to see if she will drive the bigger SUV / Xtra cab pickup on a daily basis. That could be the limiting factor. My wife always drove our family car. I drove my 3/4 ton pickup and/or our sportscar (not winter). But I never had a long commute. If the wife is willing to drive the Yukon/Suburban/XtraCab pickup you are OK. You might consider just keeping your current sedan for your commute.

If she says she wants to drive the family sedan on a daily basis you might consider stepping up a little bit and buying a Diesel Xtra cab pickup for your daily driver. Here's the math: The absolute best mileage you will get with the diesel pickup is 20 mpg on the freeway with no load. However, these diesels last forever. 300,000 miles is very common. And you can actually sell a diesel with 300,000 miles on it whereas nobody wants a high miler gas rig. Diesel rigs cost more up front but they retain a Considerably higher percentage of their resale over a longer time period. My current Duramax is 9 years old and I am not even considering replacing it whereas the 7 previous Suburbans/Blazers/Pickups that I have owned were always sold after 5 years maximum.

Diesel pickups are rough riding. But they are actually relatively quiet inside at 55 mph. They are well suited for freeway flying because of the visibility and you loaf along at 1600 rpm when going 55 mph. The tires are expensive but they last 50,000 miles if you get the good Michelin highway type. I have lived in snow country for the last 34 years. The best snow vehicle is the heavy duty 3/4 ton rig with ground clearance. I tried a fancy Ranger xtracab 4wd about 19 years ago (explorer running gear) and it was a nifty little rig but just did not go in the snow as good as a full size heavy duty.

It costs money to trade rigs. In my case I always had extra wheels with snow tires mounted that had to be sold if I traded for a different brand/type of vehicle. So for that reason you may consider keeping one of your current vehicles for your commuter.

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I've gone periods of time being a 3 car for 2 people family (our son is 43, long out of the house) and being a 2 car family. There are obvious advantages to both. With 3 cars I'd get somewhere in my 3rd car and realize I did not have my cell phone charger, or day-timer, or whatever that I left in my Pickup. When you only drive one rig you always have those little used items on board.

If your wife drives the least then you need to see if she will drive the bigger SUV / Xtra cab pickup on a daily basis. That could be the limiting factor. My wife always drove our family car. I drove my 3/4 ton pickup and/or our sportscar (not winter). But I never had a long commute. If the wife is willing to drive the Yukon/Suburban/XtraCab pickup you are OK. You might consider just keeping your current sedan for your commute.

If she says she wants to drive the family sedan on a daily basis you might consider stepping up a little bit and buying a Diesel Xtra cab pickup for your daily driver. Here's the math: The absolute best mileage you will get with the diesel pickup is 20 mpg on the freeway with no load. However, these diesels last forever. 300,000 miles is very common. And you can actually sell a diesel with 300,000 miles on it whereas nobody wants a high miler gas rig. Diesel rigs cost more up front but they retain a Considerably higher percentage of their resale over a longer time period. My current Duramax is 9 years old and I am not even considering replacing it whereas the 7 previous Suburbans/Blazers/Pickups that I have owned were always sold after 5 years maximum.

Diesel pickups are rough riding. But they are actually relatively quiet inside at 55 mph. They are well suited for freeway flying because of the visibility and you loaf along at 1600 rpm when going 55 mph. The tires are expensive but they last 50,000 miles if you get the good Michelin highway type. I have lived in snow country for the last 34 years. The best snow vehicle is the heavy duty 3/4 ton rig with ground clearance. I tried a fancy Ranger xtracab 4wd about 19 years ago (explorer running gear) and it was a nifty little rig but just did not go in the snow as good as a full size heavy duty.

It costs money to trade rigs. In my case I always had extra wheels with snow tires mounted that had to be sold if I traded for a different brand/type of vehicle. So for that reason you may consider keeping one of your current vehicles for your commuter.

You can get better than 20 mpg out of a diesel. It is all about your driving style. If you go with aftermarket programming and mods, you can get even better. I've got a 1 ton lifted on 37s and am in the low 20s mileage-wise when unloaded.

Diesels don't ride any rougher than a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser. Remember a truck is a truck....not a Cadillac. They won't ride as smooth as a car or a half ton SUV.

Tires indeed aren't cheap, you will pay a little more for an E rated tire, which is usually on a diesel truck, but you can get D rated tires if you don't plan to tow near the vehicles GVWR and still be OK. Invest in quality tires, rotate them every 5,000 miles or so, and you will see longer life. I just turned 43,000 miles on my BFG mud terrains and they have seen everything from burnouts, drag strips, towing, and off road. They will last me through the end of the summer.

My advice is to go the diesel route. Like mentioned above, it will cost a little more in the beginning, but they hold their value, get good mileage (as long as you aren't just driving short distances all the time), are built for longevity, and made to tow. It is always nice to have a full sized truck if you need to move large items too. If you have a family, I'd say look at the Dodge Mega-Cabs. TONS of room inside. And if you get a cap on it, you basically have a SUV. Versatility to keep items dry and secure, or take the cap off to haul large items.

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You can get better than 20 mpg out of a diesel. It is all about your driving style. If you go with aftermarket programming and mods, you can get even better. I've got a 1 ton lifted on 37s and am in the low 20s mileage-wise when unloaded.

Diesels don't ride any rougher than a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser. Remember a truck is a truck....not a Cadillac. They won't ride as smooth as a car or a half ton SUV.

Tires indeed aren't cheap, you will pay a little more for an E rated tire, which is usually on a diesel truck, but you can get D rated tires if you don't plan to tow near the vehicles GVWR and still be OK. Invest in quality tires, rotate them every 5,000 miles or so, and you will see longer life. I just turned 43,000 miles on my BFG mud terrains and they have seen everything from burnouts, drag strips, towing, and off road. They will last me through the end of the summer.

My advice is to go the diesel route. Like mentioned above, it will cost a little more in the beginning, but they hold their value, get good mileage (as long as you aren't just driving short distances all the time), are built for longevity, and made to tow. It is always nice to have a full sized truck if you need to move large items too. If you have a family, I'd say look at the Dodge Mega-Cabs. TONS of room inside. And if you get a cap on it, you basically have a SUV. Versatility to keep items dry and secure, or take the cap off to haul large items.

:plus1:

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I always had a hard time having a vehicle sitting around. Depreciation, insurance, maintenance, and reliability if its not being driven much all come into question. How much do you actually drive? And how much of that would you drive with the car?

The newer larger vehicles get relatively good gas mileage...

A bunch of generalizations here... say you average 75miles a day (thats quite a lot...), get 20mpg on the tank and 30mpg in the econobox. At 75 miles of driving a day thats a 1.25 gallon savings, at $3.10/gallon thats about 4 bucks a day savings (actually, $3.88). $4/ day savings x 20 work days in a month = $160 a month savings between driving an efficient car and a larger truck.

Thats about $2000/ year savings, before maintenance, depreciation, insurance..etc. I dont think you'd be saving much money... I know I didnt when I crunched the numbers a year ago. And if you drive less than that, the savings gets even less (but more miles would increase the savings).

Just didnt make sense to me at the time. And the comfort of not always being in 'your vehicle' when road tripping. Nothing worse than getting the family quite a ways from home in a vehicle that isnt driven much and then have it act up - something you might pickup on if you were driving it your self daily, but something that might go missed on a 3rd vehicle because its not used much, until its too late.

Another consideration would be if you were to buy a new high end SUV and really wanted to keep the miles to keep it from depreciating quickly (escalade comes into mind here), then that would be an added savings. Hard to calculate how much though, and who knows if thats something your worried about.

Bingo, even with rounding numbers one way or nother. I've done this math too, and my next vehicle will be an inefficient Wrangler. Go with the diesel like RedRum said, and you'll get your numbers closer.

Another thought is how much do you tow? Can you rent a truck to tow with when needed? It might seem like a lot of expense for that day or weekend, but over the course of a boating season it might make a whole lot more sense. Then you actually can drive the 30+mpg car full time, and only pay for actual usage on a tow vehicle as needed. I do this with material handling equipment at work, saves a TON of money and maintenance BS.

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Insurance cost could make the three vehicle math a little fuzzier. I'm in the same boat. Current Flex won't get the job done. Should I keep it and pickup a used truck or sell it and get a Suburban/Yukon/Expedition.

I agree, when I did the math on owning 3 vehicles it didn't come out. It was cheaper to drive the gas hog....but then that will vary with commuting distances etc.

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I travel 100 miles a day, so a commuter car is essential. If it was only about 20 miles or so I don’t think it’d pan out to have a 3rd vehicle but in my case it does. The combination of added DMV fees, maintenance, insurance costs, washing etc in the long run payoff given the distances that I drive. My tow vehicle is low miles for its age and is always ready to do the job it’s meant for….towing the boat or hauling stuff. I’m not sure how a homeowner can live w/o a truck. I don’t buy the whole diesel thing, but meh whatever suits your budget. The weakest link in a gasser engine for towing is the tranny, beef up to the Allison and alleviates that issue. Sure there is a time and a place for a diesel but unless your tow package requires it the extra cost, maintenance and fuel just isn’t worth it. The newer diesels now have the extra cost and maintenance of the urea crap too. Getting 200k on a gasser these days isn’t that much of a problem, plus most won’t keep a diesel long enough to break even or come out ahead.

Just don’t buy a Furd…..j/k Gotta give props to Ford they didn’t need the bailout!

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Hey Aaron!

If you do the 3 car option just get a normal sized sedan to drive. Getting a super small gas sipper for a daily driver may sound like a good idea until you think about the safety aspect involved. The few dollars saved at the pump just isn't worth it in my opinion.

Years ago a good friend of mine was in a bad accident and we arrived on the scene just a minute or two after it happened. Seeing what a normal sized sedan (Taurus) does to a smaller car (Neon) at just ~35mph is an image I won't soon forget. My friend was the Taurus driver, the Neon driver ran a stop sign and was T-boned by the Taurus. The Neon looked like it had been hit by a bomb, and the driver did not live. Certainly any side impact accident is bad, but on small cars side impacts are catastrophic.

If it were me I would go with the Expedition and the 2-car option. It's much easier and cheaper to maintain 2 cars rather than 3, and insurance on 2 cars will likely be cheaper as well. Plus putting all of the money from your Explorer into an Expedition helps you get the nicest, lowest mileage, and most reliable Expedition that you can find. Going with 3 cars and getting a cheap high-mileage truck just for towing sounds good until a weekend trip gets ruined because it broke down. I think the Expedition is just the right size for fitting all of your stuff and towing nice but not so big that it's hateful to drive every day.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Edited by Brett B
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I travel 100 miles a day, so a commuter car is essential. If it was only about 20 miles or so I don't think it'd pan out to have a 3rd vehicle but in my case it does. The combination of added DMV fees, maintenance, insurance costs, washing etc in the long run payoff given the distances that I drive. My tow vehicle is low miles for its age and is always ready to do the job it's meant for….towing the boat or hauling stuff. I'm not sure how a homeowner can live w/o a truck. I don't buy the whole diesel thing, but meh whatever suits your budget. The weakest link in a gasser engine for towing is the tranny, beef up to the Allison and alleviates that issue. Sure there is a time and a place for a diesel but unless your tow package requires it the extra cost, maintenance and fuel just isn't worth it. The newer diesels now have the extra cost and maintenance of the urea crap too. Getting 200k on a gasser these days isn't that much of a problem, plus most won't keep a diesel long enough to break even or come out ahead.

Just don't buy a Furd…..j/k Gotta give props to Ford they didn't need the bailout!

****

Plus, the newer diesel's milage sucks. My uncle went from an '06 F/250 to the new F-250 and with the increased power and all the new environmental crap his milage went from around 20 unloaded mixed driving to around 13-14 and he's still bitching about that. I would bet that any new 1/2 ton gasser that weighs 2000 lbs. less would beat a new Diesel 3/4 ton on milage in unloaded mixed driving. Factor in 8-11k upcharge for a diesel, 50 cents more a gallon, more cost every oil change, and the fact that It gets on your hands at every fill-up and stinks up your cab, and a diesel starts making less sense. Also, diesel works best when you are burning up highway miles, but they sludge-up if you use them for regular short trips to the grocery store and don't let them warm up properly. If I was towing more than 8k lbs. regularly, i.e., a big 5th Wheel cross country, I would own a diesel, but they don't make sense, IMHO, for pulling a ski boat around and shorter commuting.

Edited by jjackkrash
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I just ran the numbers using three scenarios:

Option 1. Staying with two vehicles and me driving the car (we already own) back and forth to work every day, and my wife driving the SUV.

Option 2. Again, staying with two vehicles and my wife driving the car, and me driving the SUV to work every day.

Option 3. Going to three vehicles (two cars and one SUV/Truck) and both my wife and I driving cars on a daily basis, and using the SUV/Truck as the tow vehicle.

I had to make a few simplifying assumptions, such as:

Gas $ (average) $3.50

Miles/day 40

Miles/yr Car (me) 15000

Miles/yr SUV (wife) 6,000

Miles/yr SUV (me) 15000

Miles/yr Car (wife) 6,000

Car MPG 25

SUV/Truck MPG 15

SUV/Truck MPG tow 10

Lake Trips/yr 5

Trip Miles 600

To Griggs 50

To Griggs Miles 20

I already costed Insurance for the third vehicle, it was about $400 more/year

The end results suprised me a bit.

Least cost: Option 1 ($7,210). Of course this would be the least cost, I'm putting the most miles on the most fuel efficient car.

2nd Lowest Cost: Option 3 ($7,605 - +5.4%). The increased costs of Insurance, DMV, maintenance, etc. was offset by the fact that we weren't driving it THAT much to spend all the $ on gas.

Highest Cost ($8,050 - +11.4%): Option 2. Since I would be driving the less fuel efficient vehicle on a daily basis, the gas costs skyrocketed.

I guess I'll start looking at the Expeditions more seriously then! Yes, I said Expeditions Malibudude! :whistle:

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I will toss out a different idea... get something that works great as a daily driver, easily tows the boat, and delivers decent gas mileage.. yes... they do exist. I have a 2008 VW Touareg V10TDI.. and i really think it's the perfect combo... fun to drive, good MPGs, and I don't even know my 23LSV is back there (even over the passes.) You can look at some of the other German diesels as well.. my wife has an Audi Q7 3.0TDI (with the air susp) and it also does great with the boat and gets even better MPGs (but the V10 is a ton more fun to drive:)). The MB Bluetec GL and ML's are good choices as well. The 2011 Toaureg TDI is sweet.. but they dropped the air susp and transfer case as options in the US so it makes it far less ideal for towing (but you could snag a used 2009/2010 Toaureg 3.0TDI w/ air and you would be set.

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I'm a single guy and have 2 vehicles.

A Tahoe I use for work (and drive 35-40k a year) and a Escort Wagon I use for the around town stuff and back and forth to band practice, pick up kids etc...

The Tahoe is the boat trail vehicle, fits the kids, dogs and our gear just fine.

Normal gas mileage is about 16 mpg. Towing it can go from about 12-15 depending on conditions and where I'm towing to.

Maybe this helps,

Ken

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I travel 100 miles a day, so a commuter car is essential. If it was only about 20 miles or so I dont think itd pan out to have a 3rd vehicle but in my case it does. The combination of added DMV fees, maintenance, insurance costs, washing etc in the long run payoff given the distances that I drive. My tow vehicle is low miles for its age and is always ready to do the job its meant for….towing the boat or hauling stuff. Im not sure how a homeowner can live w/o a truck. I dont buy the whole diesel thing, but meh whatever suits your budget. The weakest link in a gasser engine for towing is the tranny, beef up to the Allison and alleviates that issue. Sure there is a time and a place for a diesel but unless your tow package requires it the extra cost, maintenance and fuel just isnt worth it. The newer diesels now have the extra cost and maintenance of the urea crap too. Getting 200k on a gasser these days isnt that much of a problem, plus most wont keep a diesel long enough to break even or come out ahead.

Just dont buy a Furd…..j/k Gotta give props to Ford they didnt need the bailout!

This is a pet peve of mine... If you own a home and dont own a pickup truck you are essentually useless :lol:

and NO, you cant borrow my truck :rockon:

I have a 4 door Tundra and my wife drives an RDX. We work at the same place so we commute together, and the commute is short. If I had a long commute I would have a set up like Martin A, sweet older 3/4 ton tow rig and a newer mid sized sedan.

Edited by Levi900RR
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I have an Avalanche that gets around 16 or 17 mpg. And have tried the 30 mpg commuter car when I was working about 20 miles away. It was going to take like 3 yrs to even break even. And I didn't like driving the little car.

Now I work about 8 miles from home. Wife works like 2 miles from home. We drive what we want. I can stretch a tank of gas to last 2 weeks. Wife's tank last 3 weeks or more.

I may look into trying it again in the summer with a motorcycle.... or a golf cart. Then spend the money we save on boat gas. :yahoo:

Edited by Bill_AirJunky
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Big Toyota guy here. I tried the made in the USA thing for a while but I could not get over 70K miles without issues on them. Whats terrible grandfather is retired GM, I get that huge family GM discount, used it several times. Never again. I tried a 3/4 Chevy Duramax and holy crap they ride rough... and I know rough riding trucks spending 3yrs in Iraq in MRAPs and Hummers...

I got a 2010 Tundra with the 5.7L, I get 10.5mpg towing the Malibu 247, and 16mpg or so average city/highway, thats with a 390HP truck considering.... 100% love the truck! I tow my 8500lb RV at 75-80mph and sometimes forget its back there.

Consider the Toyota Sequoia, with the 5.7L or even the smaller 4.8L V8. Plenty of power to tow, then you are into 20MPG for regular driving... Also you have yourself a 300K vehicle thats not going to fall apart on you.

Edited by nyryan2001
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we have the three rig scenario

suburban - tow rig & wifes daily driver

Subaru outback - our around town car

66 mustang convertible - it gets the best mileage - but costs the most - it never moves...

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I'm going to be buying a tow vehicle in the spring (or sooner if something pops up). I'm planning on selling my explorer for something bigger, so here's my choices:

1. Sell the explorer and buy a larger SUV (expedition) with more towing capacity and stopping power. This would keep my wife and I a two vehicle family. More gas used on a daily basis as either my wife or myself would be driving it around a decent amount.

If you are towing an 07 VLX and mainly going to Griggs, I would be tempted to keep the Exploder. Good space, decent economy as SUVs go (assuming you have the V6 version), etc.

I have an Accord and my wife drives our suburban (2007). The accord crushes it in fuel economy, which is great. The Suburban gets 20 MPG on the freeway with cylinder deactivation working in its favor. When towing the 23 XTI, it sucks - literally...10-12 MPG is the norm. In fact, I spend WAY more $ in fuel for the tow truck than in the boat - that's not right! :-)

If gas goes as high as the doomsday sayers predict, it will be an easy decision to:

1. Store the boat close to the lake and make the Suburban a 3rd car for road trips and tow duty only

or

2. Rent a slip and hoist for the Malibu and use the accord to get to and from the lake. Slip rental is a bargain if gas is $5/gal for the tow truck...

-- Mike

PS - Do you know Kevin Klosterman up in Dublin (red/white Barefoot Nautique)? He's on griggs all the time footin or air-chair-ing.

Edited by EchelonMike
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This is a pet peve of mine... If you own a home and dont own a pickup truck you are essentually useless :lol:

and NO, you cant borrow my truck :rockon:

I have a 4 door Tundra and my wife drives an RDX. We work at the same place so we commute together, and the commute is short. If I had a long commute I would have a set up like Martin A, sweet older 3/4 ton tow rig and a newer mid sized sedan.

Biggrin.gif I love my old truck. It is fun, gets looks, and will only be worth more with time at this point pending it remains a garage queen. The only down side is the 6-7mpg drive to the lake. LOL.gif It costs about $23 every time we tow the boat back and forth to the lake, but what the heck, can't put a price on fun! Thumbup.gif

Agreed with the homeowners truck comments. I get other people with two compact cars asking to borrow my antique truck every once in a while. :Doh:

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If you are towing an 07 VLX and mainly going to Griggs, I would be tempted to keep the Exploder. Good space, decent economy as SUVs go (assuming you have the V6 version), etc.

I have an Accord and my wife drives our suburban (2007). The accord crushes it in fuel economy, which is great. The Suburban gets 20 MPG on the freeway with cylinder deactivation working in its favor. When towing the 23 XTI, it sucks - literally...10-12 MPG is the norm. In fact, I spend WAY more $ in fuel for the tow truck than in the boat - that's not right! :-)

If gas goes as high as the doomsday sayers predict, it will be an easy decision to:

1. Store the boat close to the lake and make the Suburban a 3rd car for road trips and tow duty only

or

2. Rent a slip and hoist for the Malibu and use the accord to get to and from the lake. Slip rental is a bargain if gas is $5/gal for the tow truck...

-- Mike

PS - Do you know Kevin Klosterman up in Dublin (red/white Barefoot Nautique)? He's on griggs all the time footin or air-chair-ing.

Hey Mike,

Unfortunatly for our gas bill, we don't only go to Griggs (though we do love it). We have a lakehouse down in KY that we'll tow down to more than a few times during the summer, and I'm sure we'll hit up WOW and some other hour or two hour trips. I'm going to wish that I had a larger and more powerful vehicle to tow the boat with. Going back and forth to Griggs isn't that bad with the Explorer, but stopping suddenly has had me a little nervous a couple of times. I think with a heavier vehicle (expedition) I will feel safer when towing.

I have thought about joining the Scioto Boat Club to be able to keep the boat there and be able to just drop it in the water, but it's not cheap, so my wife and I figured we'd feel it out this season and possibly join next season. But I completely agree with renting a slip and hoist, it would definately save a ton on gas.

I'm sure I've seen Kevin out there on Griggs. In fact, I think i may have ruined a Saturday morning for him in late September. We got out there early and were all sacked out getting some early morning glass, and here comes a footer! He was up and coming the opposite direction, saw our wake coming at him and sat back down to pass our wake, but ended up saying "screw this!" and let go. We were going up river and he was going down, didn't see him after that :innocent:

If you ever think you'll be up on Griggs, let me know!

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You can get better than 20 mpg out of a diesel. It is all about your driving style. If you go with aftermarket programming and mods, you can get even better. I've got a 1 ton lifted on 37s and am in the low 20s mileage-wise when unloaded.

Diesels don't ride any rougher than a 3/4 or 1 ton gasser. Remember a truck is a truck....not a Cadillac. They won't ride as smooth as a car or a half ton SUV.

Tires indeed aren't cheap, you will pay a little more for an E rated tire, which is usually on a diesel truck, but you can get D rated tires if you don't plan to tow near the vehicles GVWR and still be OK. Invest in quality tires, rotate them every 5,000 miles or so, and you will see longer life. I just turned 43,000 miles on my BFG mud terrains and they have seen everything from burnouts, drag strips, towing, and off road. They will last me through the end of the summer.

My advice is to go the diesel route. Like mentioned above, it will cost a little more in the beginning, but they hold their value, get good mileage (as long as you aren't just driving short distances all the time), are built for longevity, and made to tow. It is always nice to have a full sized truck if you need to move large items too. If you have a family, I'd say look at the Dodge Mega-Cabs. TONS of room inside. And if you get a cap on it, you basically have a SUV. Versatility to keep items dry and secure, or take the cap off to haul large items.

I am always shocked to hear stories of people getting over 20mpg with their light duty diesels. I am on my 5th and have owned all 3 brands; Duramax, Cummins, and all three Powerstrokes (7.3, 6.0, 6.4) Only time I got over 20 is with the Manual shift Cummins totally empty at 60mph. Break 65/70 and it would be in the teens. (I must have a heavier foot than i think.) Currently own the 6.4 Powerstroke, and when new, it was getting about 11 or 12 average. With a little work it now averages about 15 with mixed driving. Not bad for 8000lbs empty and nearly 1000 pound feet of torque on tap.

Modern diesels do not add up when you crunch the numbers unless you are towing over 13,000 pounds on a regular basis. Post 2008 models are all affected by the Clean Air Act that requires no soot at the tail pipe. Furthermore, their uber advanced direct injection systems with 20,000psi, variable vein turbos, EGR systems, Urea injection, and Particulate Filters, are prone to failure and cost thousands (each) to repair. True that the engine internals are extremely durable, but all the crap hung on the outside mitigate the benefit.

Buy a diesel if, like me, you love the sound, smell, and torque. Just don't kid yourself that you are saving money. The modern gas engines can almost last as long and while the mileage and torque will be less, I do not believe that the extra maintenance, fuel cost, and huge initial premium will pay back. (Unless you are towing all the time) I don't bother trying to justify this stuff anymore. I just tell people that I am doing my part to stimulate the economy. :lol:

All this being said, I supplement my truck by riding a motorcycle when the weather is good. Saves me a little on fuel and breaks up the daily commute. Not allowed to drive the wife's car.

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