Wakesurfing

[-BS-]

to answer your question, is wakesurfing difficult, the answer is no. basic wakesurfing is not not difficult.

You now have to find the sweet spot (while holding the rope), depending on the wake, the sweet spot will be 5-10 feet behind the boat. The sweet spot is where the wave has the most push, it is at the bottom of the wave.

as previously stated you need to brake by shifting your hips to the back of the board and accelerate by shifting your hips to the front of the board (the shifting of the hips is what moves your body weight forward or back).

the process of riding in the sweet spot (the easiest place to ride) is to be constantly shifting your weight using small movements as if you were trying to balance on a tightrope.

This is important, if you put on the brakes, immediately shift your weight to the front of the board, do not wait until you start falling off the back of the wave. If you hesitate, you will fall off the back of the wave and the ride is over. it is all about balance and small movements.

This is all really good riding advice. (as was Ruffdog and Martinarcher's)

If your problem is a weighting issue, which I think it is (because there is no reason an experienced surfer should be unable to ride it ropeless for at least 30 second intervals)......here's some weighting advice that could help:

Wave too small?------You need more weight

Wave is too soft/sloppy? ------You need to speed up

Wave too soft/sloppy but really big? ------You need to put more weight towards the front of the boat

Wave too sloppy but you think have tons of weight?-----You are not leaned far enough over. Reduce any weight on non surf side and add to surf side.

Sweet spot in your wave is really short or non-existent? ----You need to put more weight towards the front of the boat

Couple more things:

-I wouldn't use the wedge to begin with. It's position is just going to complicate the issue and there is no way you need it to get a really nice wave (heck, we don't even use ours for surfing and our wave is plenty big enough for advanced riders). I'd wait until you get your wave dialed, then come back and add it to your preference.

-If your filling an 1100 lb sack the rear locker you definitely need to have a bunch of weight in the bow and under the observer seat. To be honest I think this is your issue: too much weight (proportionally) in the back of the boat.

-Generally speaking, your surf side wave should look nice and clean. Your non surf side should look like all whitewater. If you have foam/whitewater pouring over your board/feet the wave is too sloppy. Refer to above rules.

Good luck. Let us know how you come out!

Edited February 23, 2011 by bs001

[Chia]

We use only the stock ballast in the front, an 1100 in the trunk, stock ballast surf side, and fly high tube sac under the seats (surf side) and center ballast as well, there were only 3 of us out that day and as driver, i was on the wrong side of the boat

with the weight you have and the crew you have and the boat you have, i have to assume your wave is very nice.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Cervelo

[-BS-]

Are you guys that run 1100 lb sacks in the rear surf side locker reinforcing the panels that separate the locker from the engine & seat back? The biggest bag I've ever seen back there is a 750 and it required 'the owner' ( ) to reinforce the panels this winter. We run a 500 sack + 250 stock under the floorboards in that space and it fills it up pretty quickly. Does an 1100 fill that space to the brim? Is your gas cap & vent under water with that setup? Just looking for a way to get some more weight in mine.... I'm currently out of space with the surf side loaded from bow to stern (except the maybe 16" above the 500 sack in the locker)! Post a pic if you've got one.

[arrydjay]

Yeah, Im running an 1100lb sac in each rear locker. I did reinforce the engine divider panel, with metal bracing, but it still popped out of the channel so Im going to reinforce the channel next.

The 1100 fills right up to the top of the compartment, so I had to remove the little pockets off the inside of the locker lids.

At surf speeds, the rubrail is just on the waterline.

[85 Barefoot]

Yeah, Im running an 1100lb sac in each rear locker. I did reinforce the engine divider panel, with metal bracing, but it still popped out of the channel so Im going to reinforce the channel next.

The 1100 fills right up to the top of the compartment, so I had to remove the little pockets off the inside of the locker lids.

At surf speeds, the rubrail is just on the waterline.

If you have that kind fo weight, you have a technique problem imho. One thing that I had to get used to is that the board needs to actually be point essentially at the propwash, not perpendicular to the wave like you would surf in the ocean (on a longboard in small surf). You almost have to have the board dead parallel with the wake to make the push the fastest, THEN you can get the feel of insufficient speed and gaining speed when needed by getting the board in that position.

[CJAY]

If you have that kind fo weight, you have a technique problem imho. One thing that I had to get used to is that the board needs to actually be point essentially at the propwash, not perpendicular to the wave like you would surf in the ocean (on a longboard in small surf). You almost have to have the board dead parallel with the wake to make the push the fastest, THEN you can get the feel of insufficient speed and gaining speed when needed by getting the board in that position.

I agree, it has to be a technique problem. I'm willing to bet you guys are trying to get rid of the rope before you really have a feel for what you're doing. Ride with the rope for a while, get a feel for it, you'll know when you're ready to toss it. It took my wife all summer long to get it down, she got rid of the rope on the very last day of the season

[-BS-]

You aren't running 1100 in both lockers during surfing are ya?

[shawndoggy]

I'm curious how you guys can say it's a surfing technique problem when the OP states that they've had an ocean surf instructor with 30 years of experience who can't stay on for more than 30 seconds, and that he has to work really hard to do that? I'm sure technique plays a part, but if you have to pump constantly to stay in, to me that says that there's:

(a) a setup problem with the wave (not enough push);

(b) too much speed; or

© that board is really slow; or

(d) some combination of the above.

Edited February 23, 2011 by shawndoggy

[CJAY]

I'm curious how you guys can say it's a surfing technique problem when the OP states that they've had an ocean surf instructor with 30 years of experience who can't stay on for more than 30 seconds, and that he has to work really hard to do that? I'm sure technique plays a part, but if you have to pump constantly to stay in, to me that says that there's:

(a) a setup problem with the wave (not enough push);

(b) too much speed; or

© that board is really slow; or

(d) some combination of the above.

Could be technique on both sides, the driver and rider. I think speed is one factor, but I also think it's gotta be technique, did he ever say what board they were using and what size the riders are, including the surf instructor. I'm hard pressed to beleive a surf instructor couldn't ride a piece of plywood on any wave put in front of him.

[shawndoggy]

Could be technique on both sides, the driver and rider. I think speed is one factor, but I also think it's gotta be technique, did he ever say what board they were using and what size the riders are, including the surf instructor. I'm hard pressed to beleive a surf instructor couldn't ride a piece of plywood on any wave put in front of him.

Me too... that's why I don't think it's purely a surf technique issue.

From the OP:

"The board we are using is a Grindwater Shakka"

Which is is a board I've not read much about... which is why I suggested he try something like the IS Blue Lake, to eliminate the board as the culprit.

Edited February 23, 2011 by shawndoggy

[CJAY]

Me too... that's why I don't think it's purely a surf technique issue.

From the OP:

"The board we are using is a Grindwater Shakka"

Which is is a board I've not read much about... which is why I suggested he try something like the IS Blue Lake, to eliminate the board as the culprit.

I've got the next size up board fromt hat line. THat board is rated up to 220lbs, and is a foam board with fcs fins, so it should be fine. Those are really good stable boards

[85 Barefoot]

I'm curious how you guys can say it's a surfing technique problem when the OP states that they've had an ocean surf instructor with 30 years of experience who can't stay on for more than 30 seconds, and that he has to work really hard to do that? I'm sure technique plays a part, but if you have to pump constantly to stay in, to me that says that there's:

(a) a setup problem with the wave (not enough push);

(b) too much speed; or

© that board is really slow; or

(d) some combination of the above.

Because ocean surfers in small surf are riding perpendicular to the line. Wakesurfing requires riding the line essentially parallel. I think the real surfer is expecting more push (like an ocean wave) and not picking up the angles the board needs to reduce drag and be "fast".

[nyryan2001]

here is a picture our our wave. the guy is 200#+ and is riding the phase 5 icon (smaller than prop and oogle, bigger than scamp). The angle doesn't really do the wake justice.

We use only the stock ballast in the front, an 1100 in the trunk, stock ballast surf side, and fly high tube sac under the seats (surf side) and center ballast as well, there were only 3 of us out that day and as driver, i was on the wrong side of the boat

.

with the weight you have and the crew you have and the boat you have, i have to assume your wave is very nice.

Thats an awesome wake for that amount of weight.... I'd like to see that on the other side.....I and my buddies here are goofy so we ride the other side.... so its tough to get the starboard side to look that way, as the prop spin direction benfits port side...

I can ride easy ropeless at 10.5mph, no issues... but is slow and hard to get length on the wave...DEF hard to get enough speed in 4-5 feet at 10.5 in order to launch the board for an aerial is what i was getting at.....

He never answered if he was putting 1100lbs in BOTH rear lockers...dont do that, all weight on 1 side.... all the non surf side sacs and tanks needs to be empty... you gotta get that lean...

Edited February 23, 2011 by nyryan2001

[-BS-]

I'm curious how you guys can say it's a surfing technique problem when the OP states that they've had an ocean surf instructor with 30 years of experience who can't stay on for more than 30 seconds, and that he has to work really hard to do that? I'm sure technique plays a part, but if you have to pump constantly to stay in, to me that says that there's:

(a) a setup problem with the wave (not enough push);

(b) too much speed; or

© that board is really slow; or

(d) some combination of the above.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I believe the best way to solve this little problem is for Arrydjay to buy BS001 and I a ticket to Australia and put us up for a week while we acquire more hours on his beautiful boat. Heck I think BS001 could even have him doing 3s given a weeks amount of time.

All joking aside, do you know someone who will ride with you and help? I learned a TON this way about boat set up and technique. I may have learned the basics on my own but it wasn't until I started riding with other people that things started to come together.

[arrydjay]

Thanks for the tips guys....

The weight is definitely only filled on the surf side. After all the info Im thinking the problem is a combination of Speed(gotta slow down), Weight on the inside edge of the board instead of the middle, Angle of the board to the wave and maybe the board itself.

Ill try and fix all these things on the weekend and take some pics and videos and hopefully make it easier for you guys to pinpoint what we are doing wrong.

Over in Australia Wakesurfing is a pretty tiny sport still, no one really talks about it on forums and I have never seen anyone doing it so its hard to get advice from anyone except you guys, so thanks heaps.

[-BS-]

Dang..... I thought Ruffdog had you convinced for a second Guess I don't need to take that time off work...

Good luck Arrdjay!

[arrydjay]

Haha if I had the cash Ide bring all you guys over here and your boats for a Sydney WOW.... now that would be a party!

[Lance B. Johnson]

did you catch the post about the depth of the water? 15-20 feet seems borderline. 20+ feet is best

[85 Barefoot]

did you catch the post about the depth of the water? 15-20 feet seems borderline. 20+ feet is best

Not saying deeper is better but anything less than 20 is hardly borderline. I am routinely in 7-8 feet and size of wake is absolutely fine.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Not saying deeper is better but anything less than 20 is hardly borderline. I am routinely in 7-8 feet and size of wake is absolutely fine.

this will depend on your weight and your board. I am 215 and I notice an immediate decline in the amount of push as we travel into shallow water. The smaller guys we ride with don't seem to notice. For a beginner deeper water will be better.

[Chia]

this will depend on your weight and your board. I am 215 and I notice an immediate decline in the amount of push as we travel into shallow water. The smaller guys we ride with don't seem to notice. For a beginner deeper water will be better.

Not sure if you guys have noticed where he parks his boat. I don't think shallow water is an issue.

[old skool malibu]

Thats an awesome wake for that amount of weight.... I'd like to see that on the other side.....I and my buddies here are goofy so we ride the other side.... so its tough to get the starboard side to look that way, as the prop spin direction benfits port side...

I can ride easy ropeless at 10.5mph, no issues... but is slow and hard to get length on the wave...DEF hard to get enough speed in 4-5 feet at 10.5 in order to launch the board for an aerial is what i was getting at.....

He never answered if he was putting 1100lbs in BOTH rear lockers...dont do that, all weight on 1 side.... all the non surf side sacs and tanks needs to be empty... you gotta get that lean...

Have you calibrated your speedo lately? Perhaps take a GPS with you, seems like your speedo may be a little off. I can run a good 8ft back at 10.5. I would have to say on my 09 VTX, my buddies 08 LSV and another friends 10 VLX the starboard surf wake is more impressive with the same weight. As strange as it sounds I think the prop may be helping with a bigger wave on the drivers side.? Not sure I can explain it but goofy is definately a better surf wave with the same amount of weight than regular on all 3 boats!

I cant see anyone filling up 1100 on both sides for surfing......he knows the basics man!

Edited February 25, 2011 by old skool malibu

[old skool malibu]

This is all really good riding advice. (as was Ruffdog and Martinarcher's)

If your problem is a weighting issue, which I think it is (because there is no reason an experienced surfer should be unable to ride it ropeless for at least 30 second intervals)......here's some weighting advice that could help:

Wave too small?------You need more weight

Wave is too soft/sloppy? ------You need to speed up

Wave too soft/sloppy but really big? ------You need to put more weight towards the front of the boat

Wave too sloppy but you think have tons of weight?-----You are not leaned far enough over. Reduce any weight on non surf side and add to surf side.

Sweet spot in your wave is really short or non-existent? ----You need to put more weight towards the front of the boat

Couple more things:

-I wouldn't use the wedge to begin with. It's position is just going to complicate the issue and there is no way you need it to get a really nice wave (heck, we don't even use ours for surfing and our wave is plenty big enough for advanced riders). I'd wait until you get your wave dialed, then come back and add it to your preference.

-If your filling an 1100 lb sack the rear locker you definitely need to have a bunch of weight in the bow and under the observer seat. To be honest I think this is your issue: too much weight (proportionally) in the back of the boat.

-Generally speaking, your surf side wave should look nice and clean. Your non surf side should look like all whitewater. If you have foam/whitewater pouring over your board/feet the wave is too sloppy. Refer to above rules.

Good luck. Let us know how you come out!

Do you not get wake wash with your wedge not deployed? I think most people run it at 0% (vertical) as it keeps the wake nice an clean. I put it up a few notches max for a little more push. Any more and I find the wake isnt as clean.

[nyryan2001]

Have you calibrated your speedo lately? Perhaps take a GPS with you, seems like your speedo may be a little off. I can run a good 8ft back at 10.5. I would have to say on my 09 VTX, my buddies 08 LSV and another friends 10 LSV the starboard surf wake is more impressive with the same weight. As strange as it sounds I think the prop may be helping with a bigger wave on the drivers side.? Not sure I can explain it but goofy is definately a better surf wave with the same amount of weight than regular on all 3 boats!

I cant see anyone filling up 1100 on both sides for surfing......he knows the basics man!

??? wow on the prop spin... in fact, one of my buddies here with an X-2 went to the dealer to authoirize him to put a counter clockwise spin prop on and reverse the throttle cables so he could get his MC to run counter clockwise like the nautiques did for those few yrs.... all in an effort to clen up the right side surf wave??!?! He never went thru with it though...