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Wakesurfing


arrydjay

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Ok, so we have been trying to wakesurf for a while now without much luck and Im wondering if something in our set up might be wrong....or maybe we are all just sh1t.

First we tried it with the stock ballast and could only manage a few seconds before falling off the back, so I went and bought and 1100lb sac for each rear locker.

It definatelly made the wake a whole lot bigger, but it is still hard to stay on it for any decent period of time.

We are at 18.5KPH so about 11.5MPH the wedge all the way down, as if we bring it up it washes out the wave.

We have all the factory MLS filled apart from the opposite side and even usually have about 5-6 people on board.

The board we are using is a Grindwater Shakka, and I bought it thinking it was a surf style board and should make it easy.

A lot of different people have had a go and still cant get it. We even had a buddy come down who is a surf instructor and has been ocean surfing for 30 years, and he could do it better than anyone else so far but he had to work the wave like crazy and could only manage to stay on for 20 seconds or so before falling off the back.

Now Im thinking it is either the board or the speed or weight or something, because I have seen videos of people just cruising it without working it much at all....What the hell is going on!!??

I dont have any pics of the wake, but I will snap some next time we are out.

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Ok, so we have been trying to wakesurf for a while now without much luck and Im wondering if something in our set up might be wrong....or maybe we are all just sh1t.

First we tried it with the stock ballast and could only manage a few seconds before falling off the back, so I went and bought and 1100lb sac for each rear locker.

It definatelly made the wake a whole lot bigger, but it is still hard to stay on it for any decent period of time.

We are at 18.5KPH so about 11.5MPH the wedge all the way down, as if we bring it up it washes out the wave.

We have all the factory MLS filled apart from the opposite side and even usually have about 5-6 people on board.

The board we are using is a Grindwater Shakka, and I bought it thinking it was a surf style board and should make it easy.

A lot of different people have had a go and still cant get it. We even had a buddy come down who is a surf instructor and has been ocean surfing for 30 years, and he could do it better than anyone else so far but he had to work the wave like crazy and could only manage to stay on for 20 seconds or so before falling off the back.

Now Im thinking it is either the board or the speed or weight or something, because I have seen videos of people just cruising it without working it much at all....What the hell is going on!!??

I dont have any pics of the wake, but I will snap some next time we are out.

I wish someone had been around to tell me this......when I finally learned (on my own) it made a huge difference.

Try shifting more of your weight to the front of the board...this can be done by moving your front foot forward a tiny bit and then lean on it. There is a fine line that you will have to learn....to much weight on that front foot will cause the board to pearl....not enough and you will lose the wave.

Front foot = Gas

Rear foot = Brakes

Maybe your already doing this but it made all the difference for me.

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I have the Grindwater Shakka board as well. It does take some effort to keep in the pocket on a smaller wave (might just be my ability), and beginners would definitely struggle with it, but it shouldn't be that hard for someone who has surfed before. You said you bought a 1100 sac for each locker. Not to state the obvious, but you are only filling up one side, right?

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Yeah, only filling up the surf side.... and i have tried moving all my weight forward, up unto the point where I had both my feet on the front traction pad.....still didnt work. Im gonna go borrow a few boards from the local shop and try them out....

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Yeah, only filling up the surf side.... and i have tried moving all my weight forward, up unto the point where I had both my feet on the front traction pad.....still didnt work. Im gonna go borrow a few boards from the local shop and try them out....

Your toes on the front edge of the traction pad is right on. That is key. You want that weight on the wave side of the board to help that edge carve into the face of the wave. That will help get you a lot of push.

The recommendation for slowing the boat a bit is a good one too. Bring the boat down to about 10.5 to start that will make a big difference. It will shorten the wave, but will make it much easier to keep in the sweet spot when learning to go ropeless.

Dang - too bad our schedules didn't line up. I would have loved to help you guys get the surf wave dialed in! Rockon.gif The weather looked awesome when I flew out Sat. Hope you guys had a good weekend! Thumbup.gif

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Slow down a little bit. You need weight in the bow. It will make the wave smaller but increase the length of the "sweet spot."

Not familiar with the board. With the Hyperlite Broadcast (skim style board), almost everyone who has tried has gotten up first

or second go around behind my boat. In fact, everyone who has ever previously wakeboarded has gotten up without a problem.

Takes a little more practice to go ropeless for any length of time, but getting up and going has not been a problem.

Takeoff for us is a little unsual. It's a two-stage thing. First stage, once the boarder is ready, is to get slack out and then

briefly "pop" the throttle. This allows the board to come up vertically to meet the boarders feet, assuming that he's starting

out with his heels on the back edge of the board, with the board perpendicular to the axis of the boat (The reason for

the first stage is that, if the board doesn't pop up to meet the boarder's feet, when the throttle is increased, the board tends

to skim across the surface of the water as the boarder chokes down a bunch of water; he is never getting up at that point!).

Looking in the rear view mirror, once I see the board come up, I put the throttle down fairly rapidly to get up to speed as the

surfer comes up and glides outside of the wake, working his way towards the sweet spot. He also has to creep his front foot

gradually towards the toe-side of the board.

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It sounds to me like if your surf instructor buddy was having trouble, it's a setup issue because your wave doesn't have enough push. Slow down and put weight in the bow and see what that does. I know for my boat (different hull) it makes a big difference in the push depending on how fast we are going and how much weight there is in the bow.

Edited by shawndoggy
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Your toes on the front edge of the traction pad is right on. That is key. You want that weight on the wave side of the board to help that edge carve into the face of the wave. That will help get you a lot of push.

The recommendation for slowing the boat a bit is a good one too. Bring the boat down to about 10.5 to start that will make a big difference. It will shorten the wave, but will make it much easier to keep in the sweet spot when learning to go ropeless.

Dang - too bad our schedules didn't line up. I would have loved to help you guys get the surf wave dialed in! Rockon.gif The weather looked awesome when I flew out Sat. Hope you guys had a good weekend! Thumbup.gif

Ill have to try that! we tried moving weight forward, but not across to the inside edge of the board...we were always around the centre of the board that way.

Slow down a little bit. You need weight in the bow. It will make the wave smaller but increase the length of the "sweet spot."

Not familiar with the board. With the Hyperlite Broadcast (skim style board), almost everyone who has tried has gotten up first

or second go around behind my boat. In fact, everyone who has ever previously wakeboarded has gotten up without a problem.

Takes a little more practice to go ropeless for any length of time, but getting up and going has not been a problem.

Takeoff for us is a little unsual. It's a two-stage thing. First stage, once the boarder is ready, is to get slack out and then

briefly "pop" the throttle. This allows the board to come up vertically to meet the boarders feet, assuming that he's starting

out with his heels on the back edge of the board, with the board perpendicular to the axis of the boat (The reason for

the first stage is that, if the board doesn't pop up to meet the boarder's feet, when the throttle is increased, the board tends

to skim across the surface of the water as the boarder chokes down a bunch of water; he is never getting up at that point!).

Looking in the rear view mirror, once I see the board come up, I put the throttle down fairly rapidly to get up to speed as the

surfer comes up and glides outside of the wake, working his way towards the sweet spot. He also has to creep his front foot

gradually towards the toe-side of the board.

The issue isnt getting up, we can all do that rather easily, its just staying on the wave without the rope... The line never really looses tension, so as soon as we let go we fall back.

It sounds to me like if your surf instructor buddy was having trouble, it's a setup issue because your wave doesn't have enough push. Slow down and put weight in the bow and see what that does. I know for my boat (different hull) it makes a big difference in the push depending on how fast we are going and how much weight there is in the bow.

We had 2 people in the bow when that dude was riding....but I will try and throw another human ballast bag up there and slow down a bit...

Cheers for all the help guys...

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The issue isnt getting up, we can all do that rather easily, its just staying on the wave without the rope... The line never really looses tension, so as soon as we let go we fall back.

not really on point, but never ever throw the rope till you can ride it "droopy" (slack, no tension) for a long time. Much better for the learning curve to ride with the rope for a while because you can stay up for longer, especially as you are getting the hang of the finer points like foot placement and controlling the gas/brake weighting that Ruffdog was explaining. Probably goes double when you are trying to get your wave sorted.

and if you get a chance to demo a board, try an IS squirt or blue lake... something that people agree is "fast down the line" (i.e. easy to keep in the pocket just with weighting your front foot).

Edited by shawndoggy
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Definitely keep your weight forward and toe side. I have seen several people trying to learn thinking they were going 10.5 and had never set their speedo with a GPS. I've seen it up to three mph off at that speed. I suggest you look at the wave instead of the speedo and see when it makes the tallest and longest wave. Then surf that. That could be your problem with not enough push.

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Definitely keep your weight forward and toe side. I have seen several people trying to learn thinking they were going 10.5 and had never set their speedo with a GPS. I've seen it up to three mph off at that speed. I suggest you look at the wave instead of the speedo and see when it makes the tallest and longest wave. Then surf that. That could be your problem with not enough push.

Good call. Between that and keeping your toes into the wave I think you'll be surfing ropeless in no time. Rockon.gif

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not really on point, but never ever throw the rope till you can ride it "droopy" (slack, no tension) for a long time. Much better for the learning curve to ride with the rope for a while because you can stay up for longer, especially as you are getting the hang of the finer points like foot placement and controlling the gas/brake weighting that Ruffdog was explaining. Probably goes double when you are trying to get your wave sorted.

...is totally the point. You will get your wake more and more dialed in, but for almost everyone it takes about 3 sessions on the water (IE 3 different days out) to get the feel for riding. The biggest mistake people make is trying to throw the rope in too fast. If you get slack you are surfing. Try to keep slack for as long as possible, learning that fine line between the gas and brakes.

Find the back of your pocket (where the wake is about 1/3 height or a little less) and set the rope length right about there. People can choke up a foot or so on the rope, but another mistake people make is trying to choke up too far, which doesn't give you room to catch the wave. Let the rope out to the back of the pocket and learn to surf forward into it. Do that over and over and within a few hours of riding you will get to the point where you can free ride for as long as you want.

Pictures or video of your wake and riding style will definitely help.

Keep at it. When you finally catch the wave for the first time, you will be deeply, deeply in love. We just taught someone yesterday (in 60 degree water) and he wants to go out again tomorrow already!

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Try shifting more of your weight to the front of the board...this can be done by moving your front foot forward a tiny bit and then lean on it. There is a fine line that you will have to learn....to much weight on that front foot will cause the board to pearl....not enough and you will lose the wave.

Front foot = Gas

Rear foot = Brakes

Maybe your already doing this but it made all the difference for me.

:plus1: That is the ticket right there! I can ride ropeless for minutes on end behind a Sunsetter with a quarter of the weight you are using but I spend a lot of time on my front foot.

Edited by msuwaterski
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ok, you def DONT want equal weight in the back of the boat...if you have boat rear sides filled you will get a weak surf wake regardless of how much weight you have....... you should have a nasty nasty gangsta lean going on to the side that you prefer to surf...have all your extra folks in the boat all move over to the surf side to help..... also put as much weight in the bow as you can without dipping the nose under waves... put your wedge between 2/3 to 7/8 of the way down to the locked position..

10.5 mph is good for beginners... it'll be a tall wave, but will lack length to surf on...

12-12.5 mph is where pros with tons of weight surf and get those big aerials you see on videos... will be somewhat shorter wave... but will be much faster and longer in order to race forward and jump of the wake...

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to answer your question, is wakesurfing difficult, the answer is no. basic wakesurfing is not not difficult. We typically get newbies ropeless first time out.

If you are getting up, that is more than half the battle.

You now have to find the sweet spot (while holding the rope), depending on the wake, the sweet spot will be 5-10 feet behind the boat. The sweet spot is where the wave has the most push, it is at the bottom of the wave.

as previously stated you need to brake by shifting your hips to the back of the board and accelerate by shifting your hips to the front of the board (the shifting of the hips is what moves your body weight forward or back).

the process of riding in the sweet spot (the easiest place to ride) is to be constantly shifting your weight using small movements as if you were trying to balance on a tightrope.

This is important, if you put on the brakes, immediately shift your weight to the front of the board, do not wait until you start falling off the back of the wave. If you hesitate, you will fall off the back of the wave and the ride is over. it is all about balance and small movements.

Once you can easily ride in the sweet spot, you can now allow yourself to start falling back and riding further back in the wave (once you know what you are doing, this is actually easier as there is not as much forward push). if you start falling back, aim the board to the corner of the boat as this is the lowest spot on the lake (for your purposes) and your best chance of recovering as it should be downhill to that spot.

Good luck, there are lots of videos on youtube, but this should get you going.

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I agree totally with martin archer.....toes will be almost on the edge of the board on the front foot.

totally agree...if the problem is the rider is falling backwards caused by the pressure of the wave lifting the toe side of the board and tipping you off, but the OP stated they were falling off the back of the wave, which i see as a brake/accelerate can't stay in the pocket issue.

Do you have access to any other boards, i looked up your Shakka and it appears to be an ocean wake surf board and at 62" inches is probably too big for the wave you are able to produce with your boat. It is somewhat counter intuitive but with your wake a smaller board, even for big guys, might be easier than that huge thing you are using.

One of the most popular boards on our boat is the phase 5 scamp, listed as a kids board, it will easily ride guys over 200#, with a good wake. The phase 5 icon is also a favorite and the phase 5 prop is hardly used anymore and I gave away the phase 5 oogle when i sold my previous boat, it was just too big.

starting out, i would get the icon.

phase 5 scamp - - 45" x 19 7/8"

phase 5 icon -- 51" x 20"

phase 5 prop -- 54" x 20-1/4

phase 5 oogle -- 58" x 20 3/4"

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Honestly I think you're going too fast. Try slowing down to about 9mph and slowly moving up if needed. Have them ride with the rope for a long time, and they will begin to feel the wave pushing them. Once that happens don't let go of the rope, try to hang in the pocket with slack and feel how your weight effects the spped of the board, weight forward speeds it up and weight backwards slows it down. Once you have that down you can work on getting rid of the rope.

I'm riding the largest of the grinwater boards, the mauka, and I can ride behind my VTX with stock ballast and 2 people in the boat, so i don't think your pocket is too small on a VLX.

Edited by CJAY
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ok, you def DONT want equal weight in the back of the boat...if you have boat rear sides filled you will get a weak surf wake regardless of how much weight you have....... you should have a nasty nasty gangsta lean going on to the side that you prefer to surf...have all your extra folks in the boat all move over to the surf side to help..... also put as much weight in the bow as you can without dipping the nose under waves... put your wedge between 2/3 to 7/8 of the way down to the locked position..

10.5 mph is good for beginners... it'll be a tall wave, but will lack length to surf on...

12-12.5 mph is where pros with tons of weight surf and get those big aerials you see on videos... will be somewhat shorter wave... but will be much faster and longer in order to race forward and jump of the wake...

Not sure I agree with your comment on 10.5mph. I think that is a great speed and will give you plenty of length if you have proper ballast set up. Yes more speed and more weight will give you a longer pocket but even with 1500 over stock I still ride at 10.2-10.8.

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Not sure I agree with your comment on 10.5mph. I think that is a great speed and will give you plenty of length if you have proper ballast set up. Yes more speed and more weight will give you a longer pocket but even with 1500 over stock I still ride at 10.2-10.8.

Yeah 12 seems a bit too fast. I think the 10's are perfect, but beginers, ecspecially when everone is including the driver, need to start out slow and learn to feel the wave move up as they feel it and find the perfect speed. I'm also curious whihc side they are riding, with origninal posters comment about the wedge foaming the wake. I ride goofy and if I don't have the weight just right this can happen to me.

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I can't stress enough to NOT set your speedo and forget it. These speedos just aren't that sync'ed from the factory. You will find 1.5 MPH will make a lot of difference. When you are just learning or changing your ballast setup, use these speeds as a starting point if you want but, watch the wave, that's how you will tell when you have the optimum wave your boat will make. THEN check your speed and use that even if it's not exactly correct. We set our's at the point that the wave just cleans up. Then as you advance you can speed it up for different tricks.

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Take a picture of your wave and people will be able to tell you what to do (speed, ballast, etc.). Also, try turning just a little (towards the rider). It will help clean up the wave if shape is an issue.

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I don't know if anyone else mentioned it yet, but the depth of the water you're in will make a huge difference too. 20'+ deep is ideal, if you're in <10' it'll hurt the wake a ton.

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