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247 Surf Set Up!


BIG JAY

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OK so first time out surfing yesterday...

So we ran full ballast, bow, center and right rear... minus the LR tank, all were goofy.. full tank, 3 folks..

Sounds awesome. I'm jealous. I bet with a few sessions of dialing it in, you'll be absolutely loving it. :thumbup:

OldSkool: Weight in the bow makes the pocket/wave longer and usually (depending on your boat) cleans up a lot of foam/whitewater. I don't know if 1100 is required, but if you put all your weight in the back it makes your wave really tall and your pocket very short. Definitely need a decent amount of weight in the bow... IMO anyway.

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OK so first time out surfing yesterday...

So we ran full ballast, bow, center and right rear... minus the LR tank, all were goofy.. full tank, 3 folks..

+ an 1100lb sac in the RR locker... could only get 85% full or so. compartment fills before sac...

+ an additional 1100lb bow sac about 85% full... next time we will go 100% here..

+ an 750lb sac running under the right side seats about 85% full, compartment fills up before sac...

we ran the wedge all the way down in the locked position, to a just a few taps back from the down locked position...wedge definitly helped grow the wave 1-2 taps back up from the down locked position, any higher than that it messed the wave up considerably..

I was initially worried about swamping the bow under a wave with all the weight in the bow.... no issues, just come off plan reasonably, let the 2-3 rollers pass you before turning..., dont power turn at slower speeds, you def would swamp the bow under a wave...

I checked but didnt see any issues with the engine wall bending due to the weight of the sac...not yet...

Takes 15-20 mins and a huge PITA to fill all those sacs with the tsunami pump. Terrible, but $1-2K isnt in the budget for that right now... (and ensure the retard filling the 1100lb in the RR hatch ensures the drain valve for the RR sac is centered in the opening so as it fills the volve isnt hidden under a ledge, you'll beat hell trying to reattach the Tsunami to drain it after you disconnect it :whistle: )

Otherwise huge waves in all the different configurations...ropeless pocket around 8-10ft long or more, and I am at 195lbs..definitly need to work on dialing it in.. speed, weight, wedge etc ect... and definitly will likely keep someone on the surf seat to ensure newer surfers dont run into the back of the boat...huge steep wave makes it real easy to gain speed further back and run right up into the back of the boat...

Initially the RR tank drain pump failed to work...checked the fuses and the fuse somehow worked its way loose...push it back in and it worked immediately...I have two 12" subs, perhaps all the bass worked it loose i donno...

I need a faster board!

You were able to get a 750 sac filled 85% under the seats. You must be a magician and pulling rabits out of hats as well :biggrin: .

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You were able to get a 750 sac filled 85% under the seats. You must be a magician and pulling rabits out of hats as well :biggrin: .

I think the 550 "locker sac" would be the sac that would best fit under the seats, not the 750!

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550ish maybe I donno..

completely full it'd be 50"L x 20"W x 20"H

The 50"L is perfect, any shorter bag and you are giving up weight.. The front of the bag is against the cooler divider and the end of the bag slides under and rests against the bottom of the 1100lb sac in the rear hatch...perfect length...

The 20"W also is perfect... when not completely full that 20"W is more like 25" or 28" as the bag is relaxed and lays more flat.. over to the hull of the boat...

the 20"H is the only one you loose on...i filled it about an inch over the seat rest, pushed the cushion down on it and it pressed the bag further into the compartment...

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I'll just add m y.02 here. I think 1100 in the bow is too much especially because you are distributing it across the bow. You are losing some of your list. I have an 08 LSV and run all stock ballast except the non surf side rear, a 750 in the rear surf side locker, a 370 under the surf side seat, a 370 in the bow on the sirf side and another 400 on top of the seat surf side if we don't have enough ppl. I run the wedge all the way down - 2 clicks and about 10.8 mph. This seems to be the best setup for my boat in the 2 years I have been tweaking with it. Now that they have the 1100 ## bags for the rear locked I have been toying with that upgrade unless I go with 2 of the custom surf sacs that fit all the way under the seat. I just cant bring myself to spend 1500 on two bags...

A lot of it will be your board. I ride a Phase 5 Danielo Pro and can stay in the wave all day it is super fast but very loose and took a while to get used to. As soon as I get on my liquid force custom i struggle to stay in the pocket as I feel the board is just slow and boring.

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Jay, Do you have a link to the type of through hull that you put in there? Or a better picture? Does not look like the standard threaded mushroom I have seen done in the past.

Aren't you worried about the bag exploding due to the pressure created by the pump? Someone above mentioned that you must be watching the sack to know when it is full and turn off the pump at that time, am I understanding this right?

The 3/4 through hull fittings and drain fitting as well as the 3/4 shut off valves are all MALIBU parts. Gotta have matching parts! Makes it look clean and as close to factory as you can get.

As far as filling the surf sac/ exploding it, the biggest thing is keeping an eye out on the bag as it fills under the seat. I use to add an over flow to the sac but had bad luck with it. on the custom sac when it is full to the top the over flow gets cut off by the side of the boat and can break the fittings off the bag as well as off the drain through hull. THE biggest down turn to adding an over flow vent is it allows air back into the system when you go to drain the sac, by this i mean that air is getting sucked into the ballast pumps " not good" it also doesn't allow the sac to be sucked dry. i have attached a picture of what happens to the over flow vent when the sac is full. these pictures were takin directly from stanleys 08 247 LSV that i had done. not a good picture but if you look to the right you will see the hose and how it is pinched at the top right.

The first time the surf sac is filled the air can be realesed from the sac and never needs to be done again.

Hard to explain sometimes but understandable in person and on the water.

post-12596-083292200 1302185194_thumb.jp

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The 3/4 through hull fittings and drain fitting as well as the 3/4 shut off valves are all MALIBU parts. Gotta have matching parts! Makes it look clean and as close to factory as you can get.

As far as filling the surf sac/ exploding it, the biggest thing is keeping an eye out on the bag as it fills under the seat. I use to add an over flow to the sac but had bad luck with it. on the custom sac when it is full to the top the over flow gets cut off by the side of the boat and can break the fittings off the bag as well as off the drain through hull. THE biggest down turn to adding an over flow vent is it allows air back into the system when you go to drain the sac, by this i mean that air is getting sucked into the ballast pumps " not good" it also doesn't allow the sac to be sucked dry. i have attached a picture of what happens to the over flow vent when the sac is full. these pictures were takin directly from stanleys 08 247 LSV that i had done. not a good picture but if you look to the right you will see the hose and how it is pinched at the top right.

The first time the surf sac is filled the air can be realesed from the sac and never needs to be done again.

Hard to explain sometimes but understandable in person and on the water.

Thanks! I think you explained it very well. Looks like I can get the parts at Bake's online.

Edited by TallRedRider
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Could be...it was such a PITA filling a draining with the Tsunami pump we opted for more board time than switching setups and redistributing weight... we did do lots of playing around with speeds and wedge...as you can do that easy while someone is surfing....My 1100 bow sac is that triangular one so it evenly distributes the weight across the entire bow, not just the surfside... I guess I could play around with the weight, and also offset it some so it is up on the gunnel on the surfside to get some more lean in the front there...but I was pleased no real problems I saw running that much weight in the bow...

Sounds like you need to invest in a Ballast System by Big Jay. It will make your surfing experience much more enjoyable. Fill and drain at the flip of a switch. No sacks to move. (Unless you want one)

1100ish in the bow is far to much weight. We have dialed in 247s for a long time. We have found running no weight in the bow creates a much taller and more powerful wave. We control the length of the wave with speed. In the 07 and 08 we surfed at speeds between 11.6MPH and 13MPH.

FWIW when training for Worlds we do put weight in the nose. The reason is, the Enzo Wave (Centurion owns the name Worlds so an Enzo pulls the riders) is a flatter wave. To make our wave flatter we put weight in the front.

We did find that the wave was huge and steep at 10.5....but also slow..and I would bog down easier... I am 195- 200lbs and felt I could maneuver a lot more on a slightly shorter but faster wave at 12.5ish, was able to get some slight hops off the wave... the guy I was surfing with prob weighed 170ish maybe... and he could stay on the wave a lot further back than me, I think 30lbs does make quite a difference... also we were on older cheap boards...liquidforce 5'7" and a hyperlight 5" or so... I'd like to get into a composite much faster board...

Sounds awesome. I'm jealous. I bet with a few sessions of dialing it in, you'll be absolutely loving it. :thumbup:

OldSkool: Weight in the bow makes the pocket/wave longer and usually (depending on your boat) cleans up a lot of foam/whitewater. I don't know if 1100 is required, but if you put all your weight in the back it makes your wave really tall and your pocket very short. Definitely need a decent amount of weight in the bow... IMO anyway.

You can control the pocket with speed without sacrificing wave height.

The 3/4 through hull fittings and drain fitting as well as the 3/4 shut off valves are all MALIBU parts. Gotta have matching parts! Makes it look clean and as close to factory as you can get.

As far as filling the surf sac/ exploding it, the biggest thing is keeping an eye out on the bag as it fills under the seat. I use to add an over flow to the sac but had bad luck with it. on the custom sac when it is full to the top the over flow gets cut off by the side of the boat and can break the fittings off the bag as well as off the drain through hull. THE biggest down turn to adding an over flow vent is it allows air back into the system when you go to drain the sac, by this i mean that air is getting sucked into the ballast pumps " not good" it also doesn't allow the sac to be sucked dry. i have attached a picture of what happens to the over flow vent when the sac is full. these pictures were takin directly from stanleys 08 247 LSV that i had done. not a good picture but if you look to the right you will see the hose and how it is pinched at the top right.

The first time the surf sac is filled the air can be realesed from the sac and never needs to be done again.

Hard to explain sometimes but understandable in person and on the water.

On the Sac Exploding

Two Jabscos feed one sac;

1 Boat is more likely to give way than the sac exploding (yes i am speaking from experience)

2 A fitting is more likely to blow out of the threads before the sac explodes (yes i am again speaking from experience in the order the events occurred)

3 A fitting is more likely to blow or a hose connection bust (yes again speaking from experience)

Point is if you are flying an airplane and you turn on a pump you monitor the intended action of the pump until such action is completed and then you shut the pump off. Getting up to get coffee while transferring fuel from one side of the aircraft to the other is not a good idea and you may find yourself in a precarious situation as a result. The same principal could be applied to filling large sacs of water in a boat floating on a body of water.

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Could be...it was such a PITA filling a draining with the Tsunami pump we opted for more board time than switching setups and redistributing weight... we did do lots of playing around with speeds and wedge...as you can do that easy while someone is surfing....My 1100 bow sac is that triangular one so it evenly distributes the weight across the entire bow, not just the surfside... I guess I could play around with the weight, and also offset it some so it is up on the gunnel on the surfside to get some more lean in the front there...but I was pleased no real problems I saw running that much weight in the bow.

We did find that the wave was huge and steep at 10.5....but also slow..and I would bog down easier... I am 195- 200lbs and felt I could maneuver a lot more on a slightly shorter but faster wave at 12.5ish, was able to get some slight hops off the wave... the guy I was surfing with prob weighed 170ish maybe... and he could stay on the wave a lot further back than me, I think 30lbs does make quite a difference... also we were on older cheap boards...liquidforce 5'7" and a hyperlight 5" or so... I'd like to get into a composite much faster board...

Sounds like you need to invest in a Ballast System by Big Jay. It will make your surfing experience much more enjoyable. Fill and drain at the flip of a switch. No sacks to move. (Unless you want one)

1100ish in the bow is far to much weight. We have dialed in 247s for a long time. We have found running no weight in the bow creates a much taller and more powerful wave. We control the length of the wave with speed. In the 07 and 08 we surfed at speeds between 11.6MPH and 13MPH.

FWIW when training for Worlds we do put weight in the nose. The reason is, the Enzo Wave (Centurion owns the name Worlds so an Enzo pulls the riders) is a flatter wave. To make our wave flatter we put weight in the front.

Sounds awesome. I'm jealous. I bet with a few sessions of dialing it in, you'll be absolutely loving it. :thumbup:

OldSkool: Weight in the bow makes the pocket/wave longer and usually (depending on your boat) cleans up a lot of foam/whitewater. I don't know if 1100 is required, but if you put all your weight in the back it makes your wave really tall and your pocket very short. Definitely need a decent amount of weight in the bow... IMO anyway.

You can control the pocket with speed without sacrificing wave height.

The 3/4 through hull fittings and drain fitting as well as the 3/4 shut off valves are all MALIBU parts. Gotta have matching parts! Makes it look clean and as close to factory as you can get.

As far as filling the surf sac/ exploding it, the biggest thing is keeping an eye out on the bag as it fills under the seat. I use to add an over flow to the sac but had bad luck with it. on the custom sac when it is full to the top the over flow gets cut off by the side of the boat and can break the fittings off the bag as well as off the drain through hull. THE biggest down turn to adding an over flow vent is it allows air back into the system when you go to drain the sac, by this i mean that air is getting sucked into the ballast pumps " not good" it also doesn't allow the sac to be sucked dry. i have attached a picture of what happens to the over flow vent when the sac is full. these pictures were takin directly from stanleys 08 247 LSV that i had done. not a good picture but if you look to the right you will see the hose and how it is pinched at the top right.

The first time the surf sac is filled the air can be realesed from the sac and never needs to be done again.

Hard to explain sometimes but understandable in person and on the water.

On the Sac Exploding

Two Jabscos feed one sac;

1 Boat is more likely to give way than the sac exploding (yes i am speaking from experience)

2 A fitting is more likely to blow out of the threads before the sac explodes (yes i am again speaking from experience in the order the events occurred)

3 A fitting is more likely to blow or a hose connection bust (yes again speaking from experience)

Point is if you are flying an airplane and you turn on a pump you monitor the intended action of the pump until such action is completed and then you shut the pump off. Getting up to get coffee while transferring fuel from one side of the aircraft to the other is not a good idea and you may find yourself in a precarious situation as a result. The same principal could be applied to filling large sacs of water in a boat floating on a body of water.

Edited by Stanley Wheelhouse
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Sounds like you need to invest in a Ballast System by Big Jay. It will make your surfing experience much more enjoyable. Fill and drain at the flip of a switch. No sacks to move. (Unless you want one)

You guys are in TX right? I move to Southern Oklahoma this summer, perhaps a project for next winter.

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Got alot done last night, just gotta wire it all up now and add the engine side pannel supports.

I'm not a fan of reversable pumps but this install looks really nice. Good job!

-Paul

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I'm not a fan of reversable pumps but this install looks really nice. Good job!

-Paul

Paul - I have run the Jabscos before, no complaints but chose to keep with stock pumps this time. I am curious to know why you dont prefer the reversable pump.

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The 3/4 through hull fittings and drain fitting as well as the 3/4 shut off valves are all MALIBU parts. Gotta have matching parts! Makes it look clean and as close to factory as you can get.

As far as filling the surf sac/ exploding it, the biggest thing is keeping an eye out on the bag as it fills under the seat. I use to add an over flow to the sac but had bad luck with it. on the custom sac when it is full to the top the over flow gets cut off by the side of the boat and can break the fittings off the bag as well as off the drain through hull. THE biggest down turn to adding an over flow vent is it allows air back into the system when you go to drain the sac, by this i mean that air is getting sucked into the ballast pumps " not good" it also doesn't allow the sac to be sucked dry. i have attached a picture of what happens to the over flow vent when the sac is full. these pictures were takin directly from stanleys 08 247 LSV that i had done. not a good picture but if you look to the right you will see the hose and how it is pinched at the top right.

The first time the surf sac is filled the air can be realesed from the sac and never needs to be done again.

Hard to explain sometimes but understandable in person and on the water.

Big Jay,

I am going to make it a fall project to plumb in my surf sac. It will be the only additional sack for surfing, not looking to be a wheelhouse style wave, but enough for a nice surf session.

From the pics at the start of the thread, it looks like you did a through hull on the starboard side, sort of behind and to the side of the V-drive, but I do not see any other locations for the intakes. Correct me if I am not quite right. We surf on the port side, so I sort of thought it cleaner to put the intake on the port side. Where would you put an additional intake on a 2006 247 for port side filling?

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Since i added 4 new through holes to the boat they had to be placed where they would not interfear with the intake for the motor. so there is one under the engine on the port side. its all about placement.

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Since i added 4 new through holes to the boat they had to be placed where they would not interfear with the intake for the motor. so there is one under the engine on the port side. its all about placement.

Sorry to pester you....then maybe you just put in an elbow and then the shut off valve for the one under the engine on the port side?

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I guess im not understanding your ? or what you are trying to ask... the boat is set up with 4 factory thru hulls along with 4 drain holes. there is shut off valves at every thru hole to keep it coast gaurd safe. each pump fills from its on thru hole and drains out its own drain along with many anti flow back valve so there is no air entering the system.

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I guess im not understanding your ? or what you are trying to ask... the boat is set up with 4 factory thru hulls along with 4 drain holes. there is shut off valves at every thru hole to keep it coast gaurd safe. each pump fills from its on thru hole and drains out its own drain along with many anti flow back valve so there is no air entering the system.

I think maybe it was a stupid question. The question is just where exactly to put the intakes.

I was imagining that I could not find any place on the port side to put an intake that would not bump into something else. I just need to take out the divider and really search for a spot that will work. From that standpoint, I can see where Jabsco pumps would be advantageous since they would take up less space down in the bilge. Seems like it might be difficult to place aerators down in there...might have to lay them down.

Edited by TallRedRider
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the jabsco pumps are nice for space reasons. being able to mount them down low in the bilge or storage areas is ideal that way they get good water flow, they are nice because you can do your thru hull fitting where ever you would like and hose to where ever it is you would like to mount the jabsco pump. i have found that right behind the exhaust muffler is a nice low and cool place. the pump board i build slides right in behind the exhaust and gets good water flow since it is at the transom of the boat.

hit me with any other questions you may have.

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Seems like thread has people with lots of knowledgable people on it so thought i'd ask here...

Wondering how the stock malibu systems are plumbed in? From what i gather they use the piranah aerator style pumps. What i dont know is what type of thru hull (mushroom underneath, or scoop, or transom mounted intake), and what type of valves to control flow so you dont get inadvertent water intake/output to/from the tanks or sacs.

Cheers

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Seems like thread has people with lots of knowledgable people on it so thought i'd ask here...

Wondering how the stock malibu systems are plumbed in? From what i gather they use the piranah aerator style pumps. What i dont know is what type of thru hull (mushroom underneath, or scoop, or transom mounted intake), and what type of valves to control flow so you dont get inadvertent water intake/output to/from the tanks or sacs.

Cheers

the jabscos do it. they do not allow flow unless the pump is on. they act as check valves.

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Thanks for the reply Wheelhouse.

I was under the impression from searching through posts that the stock pumps were the Piranahs which are aerator style not the jabscos? Or did they more recently switch stock pumps?

Thanks again.

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Thanks for the reply Wheelhouse.

I was under the impression from searching through posts that the stock pumps were the Piranahs which are aerator style not the jabscos? Or did they more recently switch stock pumps?

Thanks again.

You are correct, Onemoreset. The stock pumps are Piranhas. The surf setup discussed in this thread is a non-stock application installed aftermarket.

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