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Buwannabe

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Hello folks. It's good to be back and see so many familiar names still hanging around! It's that time of the year again... boat show season! For ... well, forever, we have been talking about buying a boat for the family but the timing never quite works out and with an incredibly short season here in the north, I have had a hard time pulling the trigger. Well, the kids aren't getting any younger and I keep getting fatter so this may very well be the year. Probably looking for a used V-Drive. Maybe a Wakesetter, VLX or a VRide if we stick with Malibu (likely).

So before I head off to the show blissfully ignorant, I have a couple of questions.

Towing capacity. Not sure if the old Ford Flex is up to the job. Don't need to tow a lot but still need to tow. It's rated at 5000lbs. Sadly it does not have the ecoboost motor so that puppy will probably be screaming but will 5000lbs realistically get the job done?

Boat lifts. I need one and I know NOTHING about them. I have electricity on shore so power shouldn't be an issue. What I don't know is what size I need, brand or type (direct or hyd etc). Have the dock. I know I want a power lift and likely a canopy because the seagulls are horrendous.

Those are the issues I can think of right off the top of my head. As you can probably figure out, I have never owned my own boat. Grew up with them (family, friends etc) but because of that, really never had the need to own myself.

Thanks,

Dave

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Hello folks. It's good to be back and see so many familiar names still hanging around! It's that time of the year again... boat show season! For ... well, forever, we have been talking about buying a boat for the family but the timing never quite works out and with an incredibly short season here in the north, I have had a hard time pulling the trigger. Well, the kids aren't getting any younger and I keep getting fatter so this may very well be the year. Probably looking for a used V-Drive. Maybe a Wakesetter, VLX or a VRide if we stick with Malibu (likely).

So before I head off to the show blissfully ignorant, I have a couple of questions.

Towing capacity. Not sure if the old Ford Flex is up to the job. Don't need to tow a lot but still need to tow. It's rated at 5000lbs. Sadly it does not have the ecoboost motor so that puppy will probably be screaming but will 5000lbs realistically get the job done?

Boat lifts. I need one and I know NOTHING about them. I have electricity on shore so power shouldn't be an issue. What I don't know is what size I need, brand or type (direct or hyd etc). Have the dock. I know I want a power lift and likely a canopy because the seagulls are horrendous.

Those are the issues I can think of right off the top of my head. As you can probably figure out, I have never owned my own boat. Grew up with them (family, friends etc) but because of that, really never had the need to own myself.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm no help with towing capacity or v-drives, bought my direct drive from a friend and tow minimally with a Durango.

However, I have owned and fixed multiple boat lifts. My advice there:

- This is a perfect item to get educated on at a boat show

- Definitely go with the canopy

- There are a variety of manufacturers, go with whomever is nearest to you for ease of parts or when something is wrong. It's nice when a local dealer says "Tell ya what, I'll stop by after work tonight and take a look at it" when you're having a problem.

- You can save a LOT of money with a used one. After all, it's just a bunch of aluminum and cables. Make sure all pulleys, guides and aluminum is in good shape. Cables should be replaced every 5 years or so, look for fraying. Canopies last 7 to 10 years.

- Some will say hydraulic is best, I don't have any experience with that

- Lift size will be dependent upon the boat. If you end up with an older v-drive Sunsetter, that's a big difference than a 23LSV. So get the boat first, then fit the lift to it.

- If your shorline drops off sharply, you may need deep water extensions (like mine). Costs a couple hundred extra

- There are little things you can put on the canopy to discourage birds from roosting, we use a couple of applications on our buildings near the Lake MI shorline

Happy shopping! Nothin' like a good boat show on a snowy February day to get you fired up for spring.

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a flex, idk about that. Maybe with an older 20'. The vlx in 05 is 3600 lbs dry. add gas, gear, and any extras malibu throws on. tower is not included in dry weight. you are looking at rapidly approaching that 5000# towing capacity. You should leave some room in the capacity for safety. Will it tow it? No incline and a very short distance, yes it probably will. Will it be safe, probably not. Will your insurance cover you if they find out you were towing beyond the rated capacity and something goes wrong? The engine is not what i would be worried about, it is the transmission. You will be putting one heck of a load on that little flex. I would also be worried about the flex's ability to get it out of the water at a steep and/or wet ramp. What i would say is if you have to do very minimal towing, (like twice in a season) either buy a dedicated old beater truck that can be just for launching and towing or find a nice friend or neighbor that would let you borrow a truck with decent towing. If there is any regular towing I would say go with the beater at the very least. You will destroy that flex with regular towing of a boat that big.

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As far as boat lifts go, you should be able to find a good used lift with canopy and save a good amount of money. My opinion is stick with the main brands, ShoreStation, Shoremaster, Floe, etc. you definitely want 120 inches wide and at least 4000K capacity if your looking at the bigger boats. I have a 40108 Shorestation (4000 lb, 108 width) but I knew at the time I would always have a smaller slalom boat. That is until my kid gets old enough and then I may need to upgrade. I should have gone 120 right from the beginning.

24 ft canopy is nice for extra protection. Keep in mind if you look at used lifts the shape of the canopy. As boarder pointed out 7 -10 years.

Another word of advice. Keep some extra money in reserves. Between boat lift, electric winch, dock and boat. Things break, and you don't want to be down in the summer. And not much gets fixed for less than $1,000. So the old saying isn't far off.

Boat stands for:

Bust

Out

Another

Thousand

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dont' forget the trailers weigh 1000+ lbs, specially the tandems. If you are getting a lift though, doesn't sound you'll be trailing much. A 05-08 vride on a single axle is the only thing I would tow on a flex and even then not for very far. I may be wrong, but that is probably the lightest vdrive malibu setup you can get under 6 years old.

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a flex, idk about that. Maybe with an older 20'. The vlx in 05 is 3600 lbs dry. add gas, gear, and any extras malibu throws on. tower is not included in dry weight. you are looking at rapidly approaching that 5000# towing capacity. You should leave some room in the capacity for safety. Will it tow it? No incline and a very short distance, yes it probably will. Will it be safe, probably not. Will your insurance cover you if they find out you were towing beyond the rated capacity and something goes wrong? The engine is not what i would be worried about, it is the transmission. You will be putting one heck of a load on that little flex. I would also be worried about the flex's ability to get it out of the water at a steep and/or wet ramp. What i would say is if you have to do very minimal towing, (like twice in a season) either buy a dedicated old beater truck that can be just for launching and towing or find a nice friend or neighbor that would let you borrow a truck with decent towing. If there is any regular towing I would say go with the beater at the very least. You will destroy that flex with regular towing of a boat that big.

Not only do you have to worry about towing but once you get it moving you will need to stop it. I don't know about the brakes on a flex but i would be concerend with it.

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If you really want to do it right, you'll get this package:

That is a pretty sweet setup. Not sure I could get that one past the "appropriations committee" :innocent:

I figured the Flex was going to be on the weak side. I might upgrade to a truck or at the very least pickup a Dodge Dakota from a family member looking to get rid of it. I have no issue with a thousand here and a thousand there. With two kids in multiple sports, that's just the way it goes. My biggest issue is having never owned a boat and looking at new boats with stickers well in excess of $70k!! Holy Sh.....

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Not only do you have to worry about towing but once you get it moving you will need to stop it. I don't know about the brakes on a flex but i would be concerend with it.

Adding 4-wheel disc brakes would help, but I've always been a proponent not to exceed 80% of your capacity with the trailer. That way it gives you extra capacity for people/gear etc. The v-rides '05-'08 or VLX pre '05's would put you close to that 80% +/-.

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I have an 07 VLX and tow with a V6 Ford Explorer, for now (short trips around town). I am in the market for something bigger as I realize I am at the top end of my capacity. When I DO tow with the explorer, the ramp is 15 minutes away, flat terrain, under 40 mph, and I baby it the entire way. And trust me, stopping has been a little scary a couple times. Get something with some weight to help the trailer brakes stop you and the boat. I am looking at an expedition or maybe even an excursion for the longer trips with people and gear.

Just my $0.02

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Instead of thinking "Holy cow, I spent $YY on a used boat", you should be thinking "Awesome! I saved $XX by not buying brand new."

Besides, can you really put a price tag on your kids happiness?

What's money for anyway?

you could die any day....

do you want to be sad dad, or happy dad?

don't waste another year on the shore...

I could go on all day :innocent:

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Instead of thinking "Holy cow, I spent $YY on a used boat", you should be thinking "Awesome! I saved $XX by not buying brand new."

Besides, can you really put a price tag on your kids happiness?

What's money for anyway?

you could die any day....

do you want to be sad dad, or happy dad?

don't waste another year on the shore...

I could go on all day :innocent:

Son, is that you??? You're supposed to be in school. Get off the darn computer now and get back to work!!!!

Obviously you have no idea how much it costs to keep my kids happy! :biggrin:

It's really quite funny how quickly I have moved up the expense ladder. Started by telling the dealer I was looking at spending around $30k. Found two boats I liked for $40k and just now stumbled upon a VTX (what I think I want) for nearly $50k. yikes!

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Don't forget that people in the tow vehicle count against total weight. Also all gear stowed on the boat and in the tow.

Edited by REW
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Towing capacity. Not sure if the old Ford Flex is up to the job. Don't need to tow a lot but still need to tow. It's rated at 5000lbs. Sadly it does not have the ecoboost motor so that puppy will probably be screaming but will 5000lbs realistically get the job done?

Boat lifts. I need one and I know NOTHING about them. I have electricity on shore so power shouldn't be an issue. What I don't know is what size I need, brand or type (direct or hyd etc). Have the dock. I know I want a power lift and likely a canopy because the seagulls are horrendous.

You'll be fine with your Ford Flex. I towed my 4800lb sunsetter lxi 700 miles through mountains with a Hyundai SantaFe that only has a 3500lb rating. She was maxed, but did the job. If you are keeping the boat in the water and no towing but a few times a year your vehicle will be fine.

I would stick with Shorestation or Hewitt in SE MI. Depending on where you are there is a great dealer of both lifts in Whitmore lake and Waterford. Having someone local with parts and know how is important! I know because they were at my house twice last summer.

Good luck and have fun!

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I would definitely look for a hoist that is 120" wide. If you purchase a 108" and plan to add a canopy you will have a hard time getting in with tower board racks. If you can find one with a 4500+ lb capacity it would be best. I have a shorestation 4000lb 120", with a canopy and I don't like the feeling that it break because of people on the boat, gas weight, etc. I would look at a hydraulic hoist as that what I am planning to purchase. Make sure you have centering guides that are high enough to rub the rub rail and not the side of the boat where the decals are. In terms of makes, there are so many that make hydraulic lifts. if you go with a cable lift I recommend shorestation, I have had mine for 12 years and never replaced a cable just the canopy once. I had a shoremaster before that I actually snapped a cross beam with a four winns boat on it. The boat was 300lbs over its capacity but I did not evenly distribute the weight as I should have.

I would also recommend to oversize your canopy depending on how much sun the boat gets, you want to cover the entire boat and it’s good to have a few feet on the front and back so sun does not get in. I really do like Hewitt's canopy for wakeboard boats, it’s really deep so you don’t have to cover the boat but they are pricey.

In terms of boats I have had the opportunity to drive and use a 2010 vride, 2010 VLX, 2010 VTX, 2008 VTX and a 2008 LSV. That being said I would definitely go for the VLX or LSV, as these have the nicest features.

I am not sure where you went to look for a boat but I would 100% recommend purchasing your boat from Skiers Pier in Waterford. I originally starting looking at boat 2 years ago at boat shows and met the owner Ron. My original budget was 15-25k. Since the then I purchased a used boat and had a few issues but the dealer always ensured I was satisfied. If I purchased my boat from a private seller I would probably save some $$$ but the local dealer would probably not go the extra mile to send a technician to my house to get me a loaner boat during peak times. I am so satisfied with my purchase that I just purchased a 2011 LSV as I found all the option keep getting better and better.

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Just a thought, can you install a permanent boat lift (like a permanent pier) on your lake? I have a permanent pier, and if I were replacing my lift I would go with something permanent there too. 4 pylons, two motors, a cradle, and a canopy. It's all about the same price as a new lift.

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I would definitely look for a hoist that is 120" wide. If you purchase a 108" and plan to add a canopy you will have a hard time getting in with tower board racks. If you can find one with a 4500+ lb capacity it would be best. I have a shorestation 4000lb 120", with a canopy and I don't like the feeling that it break because of people on the boat, gas weight, etc. I would look at a hydraulic hoist as that what I am planning to purchase. Make sure you have centering guides that are high enough to rub the rub rail and not the side of the boat where the decals are. In terms of makes, there are so many that make hydraulic lifts. if you go with a cable lift I recommend shorestation, I have had mine for 12 years and never replaced a cable just the canopy once. I had a shoremaster before that I actually snapped a cross beam with a four winns boat on it. The boat was 300lbs over its capacity but I did not evenly distribute the weight as I should have.

I would also recommend to oversize your canopy depending on how much sun the boat gets, you want to cover the entire boat and it’s good to have a few feet on the front and back so sun does not get in. I really do like Hewitt's canopy for wakeboard boats, it’s really deep so you don’t have to cover the boat but they are pricey.

In terms of boats I have had the opportunity to drive and use a 2010 vride, 2010 VLX, 2010 VTX, 2008 VTX and a 2008 LSV. That being said I would definitely go for the VLX or LSV, as these have the nicest features.

I am not sure where you went to look for a boat but I would 100% recommend purchasing your boat from Skiers Pier in Waterford. I originally starting looking at boat 2 years ago at boat shows and met the owner Ron. My original budget was 15-25k. Since the then I purchased a used boat and had a few issues but the dealer always ensured I was satisfied. If I purchased my boat from a private seller I would probably save some $$$ but the local dealer would probably not go the extra mile to send a technician to my house to get me a loaner boat during peak times. I am so satisfied with my purchase that I just purchased a 2011 LSV as I found all the option keep getting better and better.

I've talked to Ron several times (along with John Paul) and will be speaking to them next week at the boat show. I really haven't heard a bad thing about them. Will also talk to Zach at Edge Ski. I live in SE MI but the boat will likely live in W Michigan.

Thanks for the input on the lift and canopy. I needed some real info before I start talking to people.

I really like the VLX/LSV but originally thought I might be more comfortable with the shorter VTX as our first boat. Keep in mind that the last boat I drove was the Euro and a MS Prostar 190! Let's just say it's been awhile ;-)

To the other poster, no chance for permanent pier. Dock goes in and comes out every year.

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Don't let your current vehicle decide what boat you get. You can always rent a 1/2 ton truck to move it when you need to, and paying the local dealer to put it in and haul it out is way cheaper in the long run than buying another car if you don't want to.

As for towing with the Flex. Don't. Just because you can do something does not make it a good idea. I could teach my 4 year old son to field strip an M9 and load it. That sure does not make it a good idea.

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Don't let your current vehicle decide what boat you get. You can always rent a 1/2 ton truck to move it when you need to, and paying the local dealer to put it in and haul it out is way cheaper in the long run than buying another car if you don't want to.

As for towing with the Flex. Don't. Just because you can do something does not make it a good idea. I could teach my 4 year old son to field strip an M9 and load it. That sure does not make it a good idea.

That sounds like your wife talking!! He's a bright kid. Give him a shot at it. :)

I kind of figured the Flex wasn't up to the job. Shouldn't have let my wife talk me out of the Expedition. Live and learn. Finding something to pull it won't be a big issue. I'll want to tow it because while it will live in W MI, there are a lot of public access lakes near my home plus a trip or two up north. I think I will find a boat and then "explain" the towing problem to the boss. "Honey, we already bought the boat."

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Yikes!! You guy's could have warned me about the sticker shock on new boats!!! ;-) Hit the Detroit boat show today and came away with a lot of info on both new boats and a couple of leads on used boats. The VLX they had was spectacular but the VRide was a much sweeter price point. Be forewarned that many questions may be coming. Head is swimming right now. To many options.

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... Will also talk to Zach at Edge Ski. I live in SE MI but the boat will likely live in W Michigan.

Zach and the Edge are a great bunch of people, can't go wrong there.

For lifts, I've commented on this on a couple of threads. I bought a shorestation and don't really have any problems. It's just so heavy that I need an entire team of people to move it in and out each spring/fall. Also, the bottom of the lake by me is fairly mucky and leveling the shorestation every year is next to impossible once in the water. If I knew when I bought it what I know now I'd get a Floe lift with the easy levelling legs (you use a cordless drill to level the legs).

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Zach and the Edge are a great bunch of people, can't go wrong there.

For lifts, I've commented on this on a couple of threads. I bought a shorestation and don't really have any problems. It's just so heavy that I need an entire team of people to move it in and out each spring/fall. Also, the bottom of the lake by me is fairly mucky and leveling the shorestation every year is next to impossible once in the water. If I knew when I bought it what I know now I'd get a Floe lift with the easy levelling legs (you use a cordless drill to level the legs).

I'm pretty lucky as we have a sandy beach. Pretty shallow for a ways out. Probably about 3-3 1/2 feet deep at the end of the dock. My hope, after looking at boats, is to find a nice used one. Couple of shops in the area that have lifts on display. I will have to get one locally because the house is up on a bluff so it will need to be delivered via a pontoon.

I spoke with Zach years ago when I first started looking for a boat and he seemed like a great guy. I have visited the store once before when we picked up a tube. He has a nice VLX on the website. Since it's been awhile since I looked for a boat, I was somewhat surprised by the prices of even used boats. Still trying to figure out what a fair price is. My original focus was the used market, but a new VTX caught my eye and now has me tied up in knots :-) It's good to have options.

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I'm pretty lucky as we have a sandy beach. Pretty shallow for a ways out. Probably about 3-3 1/2 feet deep at the end of the dock. My hope, after looking at boats, is to find a nice used one. Couple of shops in the area that have lifts on display. I will have to get one locally because the house is up on a bluff so it will need to be delivered via a pontoon.

I spoke with Zach years ago when I first started looking for a boat and he seemed like a great guy. I have visited the store once before when we picked up a tube. He has a nice VLX on the website. Since it's been awhile since I looked for a boat, I was somewhat surprised by the prices of even used boats. Still trying to figure out what a fair price is. My original focus was the used market, but a new VTX caught my eye and now has me tied up in knots :-) It's good to have options.

Have you considered a demo boat, you can get a 2010 demo and not have to worry about transferring the warranty for the boat and engine which would probably cost $1000. When you buy a demo boat if you finance the rates would be cheaper and the warranty starts the day you buy it. That's my 2 cents.

3 to 3.5 feet is kind of shallow with a hoist, can you go out further? Which lake are you on?

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I'm pretty lucky as we have a sandy beach. Pretty shallow for a ways out. Probably about 3-3 1/2 feet deep at the end of the dock. My hope, after looking at boats, is to find a nice used one. Couple of shops in the area that have lifts on display.

I can't believe I forgot this, but be sure to check all welds on a lift to make sure none are cracked. Also, make sure legs are plumb (eyeball top to bottom). A cracked weld doesn't mean a bad lift, it might have been a bad weld at the shop and is easily fixed. Or the lift took a hit. Still not a big deal as long as it's plumb and welds are all good.

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Have you considered a demo boat, you can get a 2010 demo and not have to worry about transferring the warranty for the boat and engine which would probably cost $1000. When you buy a demo boat if you finance the rates would be cheaper and the warranty starts the day you buy it. That's my 2 cents.

3 to 3.5 feet is kind of shallow with a hoist, can you go out further? Which lake are you on?

Klinger Lake in Sturgis Michigan. Great lake. Spring fed so the lake level really doesn't fall much. I can put the lift out a little further if I have to but most of the neighbors don't seem to have a problem.

A demo boat would be fantastic. I really just started looking this week. I've been looking at VRides, VLX's, VTX's and Moomba LSV's. I have a couple of issues I'm struggling with. First, I'm cheap ;-) Boats aren't! Second, it's our first boat. My original thought was to buy used and make sure it we use it a lot before investing the big bucks. I could pick up a used boat, use it for a season and probably sell it for what I paid for it should I decide to pickup a new one. Our summers are jammed with kid sports.

The kink in my plan, and I should have seen it coming, is that I took my teenage son with me to the boat show. One look at the Maliview system and I lost my wingman! Have to admit it's pretty cool. Going in I told him to forget about the bling. We wanted a basic, solid boat. Next thing you know, were playing with that damn thing for half an hour, trying to figure out how we could possible live without it. :lol:

The other issue I had was where could I keep the boat locally. Grew up with lake access (friends, family etc). Don't have that now. But I have found a few marinas in the area. Anybody here have any experience with CASS lake? Seems reasonable and not to far away. I know it's going to be crowded on the weekends, but we will likely be gone on the weekends anyway. Worst case we spend the day tubing and hanging out on the water rather than skiing/boarding/etc. I live near Walled Lake but they don't have public access or a marina.

Thanks,

Dave

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