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Surgery on the Skier


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Hey folks. So many of you know I bought MartinArchers 88 Skier. Truely an amazing boat, however, unfortunately, it has some stringer rot issues. At first, I thought no way, not on the this boat, but after digging around in it , it was indeed rot. So I can't sell it like this and now I'm sinking load of money in it. After it is complete if anyone is interested, I'll talk. At any rate, it is now in the shop. I gutted it and am having a local marine shop do the stringer repair itself. We have recently been discussing wood. What do you think would be a good type of wood to replace it with? We are thinking ash because of its strength and hardness. As well a douglas fir. I know oak would be strong and hard but the price is also high. I have found some composite that would be about the same price of an ash or douglas fir, but I'm not too familar with that. Any guidance would be helpful, as well as monetary donations too. Unfortunately, all stringers need to be replaced (the two center and 2 secondary). I'll post pics as I can get them!

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I thought it was more of a strip issue with the lags and a pretty easy fix. However after digging in more it was a more of a rot issue. When I pulled the floor, the secondary stringers could be moved and twisted by hand and the primary stringers were ok but pretty hollow sounding. A sad xmas....

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when i rebuild my supra i used all Douglas fir, treated them with Rot doctor then warped them in fiberglass and glassed them down with several layers of 1708 biax glass. no water should be able to get to my stringers now, and even if my stringers were to rot out i don't think it would matter with the amount of glass they are warped in. I then made up thin layers of fiberglass for my floor and then built up my floor with fiberglass and bulking laminate so that my floor is all composite. I also sectioned off the space under my floor into ballast tanks, if i were to do it again i would probably have used Penski board for the stringers that is what Tige used when they quite using wood and i believe they were the last company to quit using wood.

Ken

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Are the stringers rotten? Last I heard the motor mounts had pulled out but hadnt heard about the Rot...

I think I would go Composite if it was me, but I haven't done any research.

Good luck

I agree with the composite comment. Wood/ply lasted you 22 years, composite may outlast the rest of the life of the boat.

I went with composite when replacing the stringers in my 91. I used a pour in composite core material and had no issues with the repair or the boat performance since. HUGE job though but I did it all myself.

My argument for composite is the fix it once theory.

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I agree with the composite comment. Wood/ply lasted you 22 years, composite may outlast the rest of the life of the boat.

I went with composite when replacing the stringers in my 91. I used a pour in composite core material and had no issues with the repair or the boat performance since. HUGE job though but I did it all myself.

My argument for composite is the fix it once theory.

The price of the wood in comparison to the labor is minor. I would use White Oak because it is very strong (stiffer than composite) is very stable(less warping) and is somewhat resistant to rot. forget Red Oak, it will rot fast. White oak stringers will give the boat a more solid feel in rough water. If the stringers are laid up properly they will last longer than you care to have the boat, Heat up all exposed end grain and apply liquid wax ( the stuff they use for sealing the end grain of Ipe) also use it in lag holes and the stringers will last a lifetime.

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I agree. Go wood. rugger went with wood on the Sunsetter because of strength and also because it lasted 20 years before needing work the first time even with all the holes that Malibu put in them for mounting things. I agree with footnlongline - seal any holes that go into the new wood and it will last for life. I would use the stainless threaded inserts for the engine mounts. If you use lags, seal with wax or epoxy and you'll be set. Repeat the same on any other bolt or screw that goes through the outer fiberglass wrap.

I still can't believe the Skier can be in that good of shape and need stringer work. If it weren't for rugger's boat going up for sale, I'd be running the Skier for seasons to come. I guess the old tap a stinger method I used when I bought the boat was a bad way to check for rot. Still bums me out that that boat needs work. I guess I gave the fiberglass outer skin of the wood way to much credit. I assumes if the wood was bad it would show big time.

That boat is such a cherry! I'm totally pumped that you are rebuilding it though. If any Bu deserves it that Skier does. The hull and interior are so clean.

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Hey folks. So many of you know I bought MartinArchers 88 Skier. Truely an amazing boat, however, unfortunately, it has some stringer rot issues. At first, I thought no way, not on the this boat, but after digging around in it , it was indeed rot. So I can't sell it like this and now I'm sinking load of money in it. After it is complete if anyone is interested, I'll talk. At any rate, it is now in the shop. I gutted it and am having a local marine shop do the stringer repair itself. We have recently been discussing wood. What do you think would be a good type of wood to replace it with? We are thinking ash because of its strength and hardness. As well a douglas fir. I know oak would be strong and hard but the price is also high. I have found some composite that would be about the same price of an ash or douglas fir, but I'm not too familar with that. Any guidance would be helpful, as well as monetary donations too. Unfortunately, all stringers need to be replaced (the two center and 2 secondary). I'll post pics as I can get them!

Don't use ash, like footnlongline mentioned about red oak, it will rot fast. I know it's supposed to stay dry once it gets wrapped in fiberglass, but if you ever get a hairline crack somewhere or a poorly sealed hole, water will eventually get in, it will never dry out, and then ash will rot away until it's an empty shell of fiberglass.

I used mahogany for mine. I think it has the best combination of workability, strength, and rot resistance, but I'm also partial to it from having worked on old (and new) wooden boats. Downside is the price...I paid about $800 for the wood to replace all four stringers in my Skier, plus a little extra for additional bulkheads and a new drivers seat base.

Overall I like wood better than composites for structural pieces like stringers. If it's built right it will last for decades.

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When it comes to buying your wood, you should look to a wholesaler. I often buy my hardwoods from Paxton lumber, although I buy locally, I know they have a branch on Dawson ave in Cinci. You will save big time on BF prices even with s4s.

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So I should probably be looking at White Oak, Douglas Fir, and/or Mahogoney? I believe I have nixed the composite idea because it lasted 22 years with wood the 1st go around and should last that plus some with a 2nd go aroudn. I wont have it for a third :) My dreams of a newer boat will prevail at some point!

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So I should probably be looking at White Oak, Douglas Fir, and/or Mahogoney? I believe I have nixed the composite idea because it lasted 22 years with wood the 1st go around and should last that plus some with a 2nd go aroudn. I wont have it for a third :) My dreams of a newer boat will prevail at some point!

The mahogany and fir will probably cost more than the WO, they are less stiff or strong but more rot resistant. One consideration is Ipe, it is by far the most dense and rot proof but because of it's extreme hardness will require pre drilling for every hole. It will also add considerable weight.

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So I should probably be looking at White Oak, Douglas Fir, and/or Mahogoney? I believe I have nixed the composite idea because it lasted 22 years with wood the 1st go around and should last that plus some with a 2nd go aroudn. I wont have it for a third :) My dreams of a newer boat will prevail at some point!

Believe it or not but wood actually out performs composite stringers, if wood didn't rot they would be still be using wood stringers on boats today.

Take lots of pictures of the project!

-Paul

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this is from Well...crap...89 Sunsetter Bad Stringers

I went down the exact thought process that you are. I did a ton of research as far as what else could be put back besides wood. I found a few epoxy based products that you would pour in like you described (Seacast), but in the end I chose to put the wood back in.

Here is why: In the process of trying to expose all the rot in the stringers I found a rather piss pour original boat build by Malibu! This boat started to rot the first day it hit the water. Specifically- the fiberglass work they did to cover the wood was horrible. I found areas that were very thin, so thin that now that the wood has rotted out I can blow air through the open weave in the glass. On the outside edges of the stringers at the engine mounts where the stinger has another board sistered to it for thickness, Malibu never applied any glass or resin to the underside of this wood and it was completely exposed and you know what that means. Had to claw out all the water logged foam to see this though. And so the more I took apart and exposed the more short cuts I found that they took which made me want to inspect even more. You can see the deteriorating cycle this was and that is why I ended up with just a fiberglass shell, bathtub.

If I just hollowed (much harder than it sounds) out the stringer shells, (after I already pulled up all the floors and dug out all the foam after I completely removed all the interior and mechanical parts of the boat) sanded and scuffed the outside of them to be able to get a good bond for the new fiberglass cap to put on them, filled them with whatever was deemed the very best pourable product I could get my hands on, and then put the boat all back together.... Well I just didn't think that was justice for this Malibu or the best way to go for all that work. In the beginning when we first knew that the stringers needed attention we decided to 'fix it right' because we want to keep this boat for our kids to grow up on, not just put a Band-Aid on it and keep going or even worse -sell it to somebody that may not catch it.

So once I was committed to replacing the stringers completely I needed to figure out what I would do it with. After a ton more research a reverted back to wood- Only because I knew my workmanship would be far better than the assembly line at Malibu back in '89. I knew that new wood stringers I build would never see water. I chose wood because of its unmatched strength, ease of use, and stability in any temperature. Foam core stringers will not work in this type of hull, they would need to be dimensionally larger and the hull would need to be really beefed up, then you still have to mount an inboard engine to foam and I just don't like the way that sounds. I also did not like composite stringers in this hull because of their lateral flexibility, unforgiveness, difficulty of use, and outrageous cost.

For my stringers I used Kiln Dried Doug Fir 2"x10"x18', laminated 1/2" Okume Marine ply to the outside edge, another short piece of Kiln Dried Doug Fir 2"x8"x4' to the outside edge of the ply at the motor mount section, and I used West System Epoxy for all of this. The wood is really nice to work with for shaping; you just need a jig saw and a belt sander.

So I tried to be brief and take you through my thought process but as long as whatever you choose to do you are confident in, it will be fine.

This may not be the best way to go, but if the way Malibu did it lasted 20 years; this should last 120 Years!

Enjoy your project!

Jason

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this is from Well...crap...89 Sunsetter Bad Stringers

I went down the exact thought process that you are. I did a ton of research as far as what else could be put back besides wood. I found a few epoxy based products that you would pour in like you described (Seacast), but in the end I chose to put the wood back in.

Here is why: In the process of trying to expose all the rot in the stringers I found a rather piss pour original boat build by Malibu! This boat started to rot the first day it hit the water. Specifically- the fiberglass work they did to cover the wood was horrible. I found areas that were very thin, so thin that now that the wood has rotted out I can blow air through the open weave in the glass. On the outside edges of the stringers at the engine mounts where the stinger has another board sistered to it for thickness, Malibu never applied any glass or resin to the underside of this wood and it was completely exposed and you know what that means. Had to claw out all the water logged foam to see this though. And so the more I took apart and exposed the more short cuts I found that they took which made me want to inspect even more. You can see the deteriorating cycle this was and that is why I ended up with just a fiberglass shell, bathtub.

If I just hollowed (much harder than it sounds) out the stringer shells, (after I already pulled up all the floors and dug out all the foam after I completely removed all the interior and mechanical parts of the boat) sanded and scuffed the outside of them to be able to get a good bond for the new fiberglass cap to put on them, filled them with whatever was deemed the very best pourable product I could get my hands on, and then put the boat all back together.... Well I just didn't think that was justice for this Malibu or the best way to go for all that work. In the beginning when we first knew that the stringers needed attention we decided to 'fix it right' because we want to keep this boat for our kids to grow up on, not just put a Band-Aid on it and keep going or even worse -sell it to somebody that may not catch it.

So once I was committed to replacing the stringers completely I needed to figure out what I would do it with. After a ton more research a reverted back to wood- Only because I knew my workmanship would be far better than the assembly line at Malibu back in '89. I knew that new wood stringers I build would never see water. I chose wood because of its unmatched strength, ease of use, and stability in any temperature. Foam core stringers will not work in this type of hull, they would need to be dimensionally larger and the hull would need to be really beefed up, then you still have to mount an inboard engine to foam and I just don't like the way that sounds. I also did not like composite stringers in this hull because of their lateral flexibility, unforgiveness, difficulty of use, and outrageous cost.

For my stringers I used Kiln Dried Doug Fir 2"x10"x18', laminated 1/2" Okume Marine ply to the outside edge, another short piece of Kiln Dried Doug Fir 2"x8"x4' to the outside edge of the ply at the motor mount section, and I used West System Epoxy for all of this. The wood is really nice to work with for shaping; you just need a jig saw and a belt sander.

So I tried to be brief and take you through my thought process but as long as whatever you choose to do you are confident in, it will be fine.

This may not be the best way to go, but if the way Malibu did it lasted 20 years; this should last 120 Years!

Enjoy your project!

Jason

Wow thanks for the info. Do you have any pictures to go with that setup? I am leaning towards fir. I am not putting this back together, I am letting a marine shop do it. If I had the facilities and the help, I'd love to tackle it. I am not keen on letting someone else cut corners and not tell me about it, but I'm letting them do it.

I'll try to get pictures asap.

Like I said I am leaning towards fir. It seems like it has been used the most in these rebuilds. I just want something that has some sort of rot resistance. Did you have your stringers treated prior to the install?

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If you're interested, I just posted a few more picture of progress on my Skier. Didn't want to hijack your thread, but it sounds like we're at nearly the same point in the same project. Yours will probably be done a whole lot sooner than mine though.

Stringers

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If you're interested, I just posted a few more picture of progress on my Skier. Didn't want to hijack your thread, but it sounds like we're at nearly the same point in the same project. Yours will probably be done a whole lot sooner than mine though.

Stringers

Wow, it is coming right along. I am hoping to have mine done by mid Jan. Right now I am just going through which wood to use. I'm hoping we can find fir and we will be using west systems epoxy.

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Well, I have called all around and Douglas Fir is going to be about impossible to get and still be cost effective at the same time. I'm hoping I can get a Mahogeny in it or a White Oak. Any complaints with these types?

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Ok, wood is ordered. I had to go with the White Oak. I have been reading that this wood has been used a lot in boat building. I'd rather have the Dougy Fir but we couldn't find that. We will be used West System epoxy. Atleast now we are almost at the stage where stuff goes back in :)

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Ok, wood is ordered. I had to go with the White Oak. I have been reading that this wood has been used a lot in boat building. I'd rather have the Dougy Fir but we couldn't find that. We will be used West System epoxy. Atleast now we are almost at the stage where stuff goes back in :)

I would use w/o. Good choice. it is very strong and solid but you need to make sure( as with any wood) that you seal it well. FWIW you can get doug fir from Frank Paxton lumber. My company buys from them frequently and I know they have yard in Ohio.

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Sorry to hear it. I don't think the guy I bought my sunsetter from knew it was rotten either, or at least to the extent it was. Hopefully knowing a handful of boats on here have gone through the same rebuild will keep your spirits up. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Wood is a great choice --- just don't assemble it like Malibu and it'll virtually last forever. After that much work, I thought I'd never sell mine-- but life goes on. It will for you too.

Also if you're not comfortable or practiced with fiberglass -- I would think you could find some good help replacing the stringers in this economy for a decent price. I contracted that portion out (after doing all the prep work/labor). Glad I did... it was nice to know if the guys who helped me screwed up, they'd have to redo it, not me. At least price it out first. That stuff is not rocket-science, but it does take practice and a lot of patience. That decision took a lot of stress off my shoulders.

Oh and I'm sure I still have my measurements for the custom wedge laying around here somewhere, if you want to beef up that transom while you're in there. :)

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Oh and I'm sure I still have my measurements for the custom wedge laying around here somewhere, if you want to beef up that transom while you're in there. :)

Man, I dont know why you wouldn't do this while it was all apart! Wedge on an old Bu is so so so insane :rockon:

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I checked Paxton, that is where I am getting the WO but for some reason they didn't have it.

I'm glad I went with wood too, with todays' enhancements with treating wood and fiberglass, anything it better than what they did in the 80s.

Man..... don't get me thinking about a wedge....... ok I'm thinking:)

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