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Banning ballast on my lake


SeanQ

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So the town board is trying to ban the use of "wake enhancing devices" on my lake, mostly the use of ballast systems...At the last meeting they were 81% in favor of banning them. Does anyone have any ideas for arguments other than...well I like having my ballast!? Their reasoning is that big wakes are eroding shorelines supposedly. There aren't any bigger boats on this lake than wakeboard boats so I can't say other boats make bigger wakes anyway. Most of the skiers on this lake are only there on weekends in the summer, so it's hard to get all the skiers to this meeting to vote against the ban. It's pretty much just the bunch of fishermen going to these meetings that stay here year round that know that winter is the best time to get this through.

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So the town board is trying to ban the use of "wake enhancing devices" on my lake, mostly the use of ballast systems...At the last meeting they were 81% in favor of banning them. Does anyone have any ideas for arguments other than...well I like having my ballast!? Their reasoning is that big wakes are eroding shorelines supposedly. There aren't any bigger boats on this lake than wakeboard boats so I can't say other boats make bigger wakes anyway. Most of the skiers on this lake are only there on weekends in the summer, so it's hard to get all the skiers to this meeting to vote against the ban. It's pretty much just the bunch of fishermen going to these meetings that stay here year round that know that winter is the best time to get this through.

That stinks, can you get a listing from the town of the home owners that are there in the summer? Maybe get a mailing out to them to spread the word?

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I'm sorry I can't help you formulate an argument for your situation, but I will say that we (you) all can get ready to fight this battle at some point.

In the last 10 years or so, the wakes have become enormous...and they are getting bigger, just look at some of the wakes posted here. You can SURF these wakes, for Heaven's sake!

Those old guys on the lake fishing in their 16' john boats can not stand it when these wakes toss them around. The homeowners do not like the wakes pounding into their seawalls or rolling up their 'lawns'. Whether this does damage or not, these waterfront homeowners typically have the money and clout to put a stop to things they do not like.

Where I ski, the land around the chain is $1,000,000.00 per acre, down from $1,500,000.00 per acre a couple years ago....that's for the lot, house not included. People who live in houses like this have serious clout...whether from the money they have or the people they know. Most, if not all of them, are older people who did not grow up wakeboarding or surfing (more likely fishing or maybe skiing...neither of which are wake freindly) and they just do not see the attraction of these monster wakes rolling across the lakes bouncing their retired a$$es around like a rubber ducky in a washing machine while they are trying to catch a bass.

Look at the percentage of wake making boats sold to 'regular' recreational boats...Runabouts, fishing boats, pontoon boats. It is small, very small. This puts the wake making people a very small minority versus those that want wakes banned (large wakes). Add the fishermen etc. in with the homeowners, and you are vastly outnumbered.

Throw in a 15,000 Watt sound system pumping out some Eminem or 50 Cent, and you add to thier displeasure.

I'm not on either side of the issue, but as your wakes get bigger and sound systems get louder, you WILL pi$$ off more and more people living along the shores of your local waterway. People that have the time, money and connections to legislate these wakes out of existance.

The 'tipping point' is either right around the corner or has already been reached. And when that point is reached, the legislation will ban ALL wake enhancing devices, not just that last 1000 pounds you added to make the surfing wake even bigger.

It is a matter of time.

In my opinion, of course.

Edited by RTS
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Seems like there is always someone posting this topic on the various wake specific websites, every couple weeks. Eventually we are all going to have to resort to the best ballast available, our big buddies. The only problem is getting 6-10 buddies together on a consistent basis. Then again they would probably come up with a by-law against Bill, Tom & Frank all sitting in the same corner of the boat!

Good luck in your fight.......

Koop

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Thsi is gonna spread like wildfire. As I mentioned in several other posts about this in other topics on these and other boards. We here in the Pacific northwest have been fighting this for the last 3-4 years without sucess. It's clear that the debate has nothing to do with logic, and everything to do with money and status. They are takin away sections of OUR public waterways and turning them into slow/no wake zones and banned the use of WED's in heavy traffic portiones of the countries 2nd largest river. Never mind that huge barges, commercial boats and cruise liners, even Navy cutters and battleships come into port less than a mile from the section that is hghly disputed as of late. Things have been voted on by the marine board, only to be overturned because the outcome was not what SOMEONE wanted to be. It's complete BS at this point. But we have a precednce set here and it will continue to spread. Mark my words. RTS is correct in saying this will be a hot topic in the next few years.

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Is there is alot of Wake boats on your lake during the summer? If so bring up the point that they are bringing revenue to your city. And if the ban goes through it will be lost! Not sure if the city needs the money, just another angle.

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Fortunately i live on a lake that doesnt allow home building up to the shoreline and it is nestled in a canyon that will not erode easily. It is a Corps of Engineering lake and I dont think city council has any pull over the Corps of Engineers.

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Have you concidered getting your local boat dealers involved? Its going to hurt their industry as well so they are probably against it as much as you are. Go to your local Malibu, Mastercraft, ect dealers and try to stir up some support. They cant sell boats if your not allowed to use them and like Bowshogg said, this could spread like wildfire. As lakes get closed off to wake boats the places that are more tolerable will become more crowded. It will be easier now to stop it in its tracks. Also remember to make it a point to tell them that these boats operate generally at slowwer, "safer" speeds then PWCs and bassboats.

Edited by stumpf101
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SeanQ,

I don't know where you live, but if it is the lake association that is "voting" on this you may want to check with the DNR to see if they can even enforce it.

In Michigan, publicly controlled lakes are under the control of the DNR. Technically speaking the lake association has no power to enforce these kinds of rules. In reality, the DNR contacts the lake association on key issues they are responsible for (like issuing permits for ski courses, which is why I can't seem to get one on my lake). However, I would think if the lake association tried to dictate to the DNR what they should do/enforce they would not take kindly to it.

That doesn't mean they can't petition the DNR to do something about the wakes, but this could at least be something to stall the proceedings until you can get more information.

On a side note, on one of the times I applied for a permit they said the proposed course location was too close to a wetland area and the wake would disturb the swans and other animals in the reeds. I was actually reading this rejection as I watched an air nautique throwing a massive surf wake right in the proposed course location. I can't imagine a ski wake being worse than that surf wake for the wetlands area.

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We have a collective group here and have begun proceedings with attornies over at http://www.saveboatersrights.com/ in efforts to combat this. We have asked for help from a few of the local dealers, but up untill recently they really just wanted no part of it. I think it was easier for them to look the other way. We have been discussing having a meeting with all the local wake boat dealers that will be impacted in our area and have discussed among members of the Save Boaters Rights Coallition in approaching some of the manufacturers. Nothing has been done as of yet as we are still raisng money through fund raisers and other events to help pay for the attornys fees. Ideally would would hope that our dealers would be able to persuade the manufacturers to swing some help our way.

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Isn't most erosion caused by the wind and rain? I live on a lake that has a ton of wake board/surfing behind my house, and those waves can't do a fraction of the damage of the wind and rain. Can they actually prove who or what is causing the erosion?

Just a thought.

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Isn't most erosion caused by the wind and rain?

Bingo!! The lakefront homeowners use the 'erosion' issue, because it is an easier sell than trying to explain they don't like the wake boats playing music that can be heard across the lake (generally pla ying songs older people do not want to hear), the people on the wake boats are more 'rambunctious' (i.e. louder/drunker) than your typical crew of 2 fishermen sitting there drinking coffee, the sound of a massive 550 HP V-8 pushing that weighted boat by their house....that kind of thing.

Something to consider when you have your tunes cranked up surfing the shoreline (smooth water) while everyone on the boat yells 'tips' to the rider trying to be louder than the music.

But the erosion thing will be their trump card.

The wakes are getting too big, the music is getting too loud....the attempted bans will be more frequent.

As 'our' generation gets older and buys houses on lakes/waterways, we may think "That's what we did when we were kids", so no big deal. But the youngsters will find something else to piss us off, I'm quite sure. And we'll be trying to have it banned.

P.S. You wake board and surfing guys don't bug me...I'm just play devil's advocate here and trying to give you ideas as to what may driving them to ban the wake board boats.

Edited by RTS
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The lake we are on most of the time has a regulation which is annoying but so far has "balanced" the groups usage desires.

On weekends noone (except a fisherman) is allowed to go faster than 10 MPH before 10:00 am. This way the fishermen get their time and then the skiers and boarders get ours. This is not as bad as it might sound since our lake is small enough that there is often still flat water until 11 or 12.

We are certainly the minority and are careful not to "piss anyone off" (but some people will hate to see wakeboarders at any time).

It seems to me that completely eliminating the usage of a public waterway for any specific group may well not be supportable legally without hard data that their usage is doing harm. In that case if one is going to pay someone to scientifically study the effects of wakeboarding, then an equivalent study of the effects of MANY more high speed fishing boats might be in order. As well as a study of the ecological effects of chemically treated lawns near a waterway. And so on . . . Basically a potential approach may be to point out that each of us using the public waterways has some effect on them and if we are going to start to ban usage those bans might cover a great deal more than people think. Shared resources require "sharing", not eliminating an entire group simply because your group has more members.

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I am curious as to what will define "ballast". Fishing boats have live wells that they fill with water, and some boats have fresh water on them for showers. My cooler alone has ice and beverages that I definetly use as ballast when surfing. I will just get a bigger cooler:biggrin:

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Should the doomsday scenario play out, legislatively they will not have a hard time differentiating between a fishermans live well and cooler with a case of beer in it versus a wakeboarders 2500 lbs of water ballast. One is obviously meant to enhance wake, the other is not. That's where they will draw the line. They will ban wake enhancing devices.

As for enforcement...it is not too hard to spot the boats with the rubrails at the waterline...

Edited by RTS
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Have you concidered getting your local boat dealers involved? Its going to hurt their industry as well so they are probably against it as much as you are. Go to your local Malibu, Mastercraft, ect dealers and try to stir up some support. They cant sell boats if your not allowed to use them and like Bowshogg said, this could spread like wildfire. As lakes get closed off to wake boats the places that are more tolerable will become more crowded. It will be easier now to stop it in its tracks. Also remember to make it a point to tell them that these boats operate generally at slowwer, "safer" speeds then PWCs and bassboats.

Hey stumpf...............you may not be aware of it, but the same ban is under consideration in Md. Apparently, one boat has caused problems for the wrong guy and now a state wide ban is being considered. The group that is pushing it is trying to get new laws in place for the upcoming season.Your local dealer (Chessie Marine) is involved. Check with them to see how you can help.

Also, check wakeworld.com for info on ballast bans and how others have handled it. There is info on the Md. ban there too.

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Virginia has rules on the books via DGIF which effectively ban wakesurfing. They use the operating a boat near a swimmer rule since the surfer is not holding a line and is less than 50 yards away while riding. It's up to the local po-po to enforce them as they see fit... so be warned in VA lest you send a roller toward some basshole (who all seem to have friends in law enforcement).

Biggest menace on our lake are the drunken pontooners with their random rules of navigation and the inept tweeners on powerful PWCs with equally random understanding of boating courtesy.

As to wakes... rest assured the douches with bajillion-watt sound systems and 24 foot wakemonsters that make surfable waves at idle will ruin it for all. Just a matter of time.

In the fishermen's eyes it's "their" lake since they were there first.. and fishing is a well recognized, organized pursuit all have come to understand and respect - cue video of 80 mph bassboat... :crazy:

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So the town board is trying to ban the use of "wake enhancing devices" on my lake, mostly the use of ballast systems...At the last meeting they were 81% in favor of banning them. Does anyone have any ideas for arguments other than...well I like having my ballast!? Their reasoning is that big wakes are eroding shorelines supposedly. There aren't any bigger boats on this lake than wakeboard boats so I can't say other boats make bigger wakes anyway. Most of the skiers on this lake are only there on weekends in the summer, so it's hard to get all the skiers to this meeting to vote against the ban. It's pretty much just the bunch of fishermen going to these meetings that stay here year round that know that winter is the best time to get this through.

Get your own lake. Then you can do whatever ya want.

Our lake has the same problem and yes they are loud, inconsiderate and damage the shoreline.

How about the wakeboarders pony up the money to repair the damaged shoreline??

Edited by jkendallmsce
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Virginia has rules on the books via DGIF which effectively ban wakesurfing. They use the operating a boat near a swimmer rule since the surfer is not holding a line and is less than 50 yards away while riding. It's up to the local po-po to enforce them as they see fit... so be warned in VA lest you send a roller toward some basshole (who all seem to have friends in law enforcement).

Biggest menace on our lake are the drunken pontooners with their random rules of navigation and the inept tweeners on powerful PWCs with equally random understanding of boating courtesy.

As to wakes... rest assured the douches with bajillion-watt sound systems and 24 foot wakemonsters that make surfable waves at idle will ruin it for all. Just a matter of time.

In the fishermen's eyes it's "their" lake since they were there first.. and fishing is a well recognized, organized pursuit all have come to understand and respect - cue video of 80 mph bassboat... :crazy:

How many fishing boats have that bajillion stereo blasting out crap I don't want to hear??

And how many fishing boats throw out a wake 6 feet high??

I agree with you on the PWCs...too bad there is not some kinda bounty on them.

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So what about tubing......I love to take out a tube when its rough out, never when its smooth, and have some fun. I see boats all the time driving in circles trying to make bigger waves. Will they go after them next? It is not a ballast issue, but you can make some pretty mean waves.

I guess it all comes back to who they are targeting and why.

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Why can't we just all get along . . . lets sing a verse of kumbiya . . .

Seriously though - these are shared resources. To use them everyone involved has to be both considerate and tolerent. The point I was making earlier is that one might be sucessful by pointing out that everyone's usage has a potential impact on the lake and if we want to get into the business of banning certain usage today, tomorrow we might be banning your favorite usage so be careful what you ask for.

Boating and watersports are key items in my family's life. I would, and do, work to defend them. The sort of ban being described here would be terrible for my family if it came to our lake. Collectively we need to share our experiences to help any of us to sucessfully fight any such ban whereever it might appear.

Years ago I was a rock climber (haven't done it in years - sorry to say). There started to be areas considering bans on climbing for both environmental reasons and for liability concerns. The climbing community got together with equipment makers and retailers to fight these bans anywhere they appeared. Climbers pointed out how we were actually working to keep areas clean (often packing out trash left by "benign" hikers) and that we respected timed bans for certain areas for things like supporting the nesting times for Falcons. Over time the calls for bans decreased. I have been out of that community for some time now but I believe that the continued vigilence of the climbers, equipment makers, and retailers, has served to keep the shared resources of potential climbing areas open for climbing.

I am wondering if it might be time to organize a similar group to defend our rights to use (but not abuse) the public waterways. It seems that there are a number of boat and watersports equipment makers who "have skin in this game" too. Any outright ban anywhere is a potential threat to all of us.

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All I will say is that if we don`t all ban together and stop this kind of thing from happening it will set a precadance to do it else were. the next thing you know it will be your lake making the ban.

@ the op. try posting on some of the surf specific sites there are some people around that can try and help. the link that boss posted up is also a good start..

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I hope they don't do that up here, I already get hassled enough by the Police with there helicopters and rubber boats, always stopping and checking for safety equipment, when they are really looking for alcohol. They have turned our countries into fascist police states. Next they will want our guns too. :guns:

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The key here is "consideration". Undoubtedly some spoiled brat kid with a F-you attitude and the big wakeboat with 1500 watt sound system Daddy bought him will decide that no one is gonna tell him how to conduct himself and will screw it up for everyone else; only takes one. Already seen it happen locally. We're fighting the bassholes on a local lake now who want us run off, all we do is throw in a portable slalom course once a week (on a week night no less) and run ONE slalom boat. We've been more than considerate of the fishermen (give them their space, try as much as possible to not send big rollers at them, been openly friendly etc) yet a small minority of them have decided that despite all they want us off "their" lake. Fortunately a couple of the city councilmen know us and know what the deal is and have (so far) held them off, primarily because they know we're considerate and that we don't abuse the right. If we weren't showing respect and consideration for the other lake users we'd probably be in the same situation. So the issue is how to rein in the punks who don't want to be told how to conduct themselves to the benefit of all involved. As stated earlier, in a lot of places it's only a matter of time because the F-off attitude punks will screw it up for the rest of us. If we can get it through their thick heads that it's in THEIR best interest to tone it down a bit there might be hope.

Ed

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