Classic sunsetter hulls

[andersonauto]

I need some advice, looking at older sunsetters, and have studied the specification chart, and know that 93 was first year for sv23 hull, and I think first year no wood, but how are the 80's hulls in comparison? I am looking for best wakeboard wake period and possible surfing I am stepping up from and older Cobalt I/O 19ft which had surprisingly good wake I am 6 ft and learned several inverts and spins behind it. I know an older boat is going to probably need some work but that is what I do for a living so I should be able to tackle anything from stringer repair to transmission and engine rebuilds. So mainly I want to know if a mid 90's and later hulls are that much better or if I can make an older hull put up a big wake with enough ballast? I also read about installing a wedge on a older sunsetter so that could be an option. sorry for the long post. I know newer is better but I guess right now I have more time than money. Thanks in advance

[WakingMeHappy]

First, welcome to the Crew.

If you’re wanting the throw a big wake I don’t know that you really want a Sunsetter. That’s what I have and the wake is OK with the wedge but it sounds like you looking for more than that so you’ll need ballast for sure. I think Malibu stopped using wood in 96 but I may be wrong.

[Levi900RR]

93 was the first year of no wood.

[khelfrich]

I hate to say this and maybe I'm wrong but from all I read when i was buying my first boat something old to fix up, the general consensus was that the old supra's were the best for wake boarding cause they have the highest free board so they can be loaded with a good bit of ballast and not have to be getting swamped all the time. that being said you will not get as good of a wake from a direct drive as you will from a V-drive. and also be careful when buy something old and fix it up. cause when I started out with an 1983 supra rider which was the first open bow ski boat in the industry a 19' open bow boat with a Chrysler 440 and started rebuilding it. and when i was all said and done I have about 25k into it, cause I'm one of those people when I work on something I redo everything and make it like new. like this supra was from the original owner only had 350-400 hours on it had not been run fro 12 years and the floor and stringers had rotted. so I started out working on it. new stringers and floor, the boat was an ugly tan color re gelcoat the whole boat white, rebuild the motor(forged pistons bored out line bored the mains balanced rotating assembly new aluminum heads intake carb cam roller rockers, rebuild trans with all new clutches and seals, closed cooling on engine,new oil coolers for engine and trans, rebuild starter, high output alternator, new strut bearings new prop shaft, new prop, new drivers seat with flip up bolster, all new gauges, all new interior all seat frames remade out of azek board so they never rot again. re molded the engine cover to be rounded like the new ones re molded dash, perfect pass gps, new shifter assembly, custom cup holders and speaker mounts, 04 gravity games tower with speakers and racks, clarion head unit and amps, ballast tanks built into the floor, rebuilt trailer with new boat-mate axles and swing tongue and put 18" wheels all stainless and braided stainless lines on trailer and lots of led lights. when you get to rebuilding an old boat the money adds up quick and now I will defiantly lose money when I sell this boat, going to start asking 20k and see what I end up getting, let alone all the hours I put into working on it. so now I basically have a better than brand new 1983 boat, which just is not the same as the new V-drives thats why I bought a new 2008 247 and i wanted something bigger

[msuwaterski]

Wow! Do you have pics of that Supra? I'd love to see what she looks like after all the work.

As for the OP's question about fixing up an older Sunsetter, I think Rugger or Martin Archer would be able to answer that best. Wait for them to chim in.

[skier_88]

After owning MartinArcher's first love, and MartinArcher now owning Rugger's love, they will be extremely helpful in this decision. I'm sure, well almost positive, that they will say classic all the way!!

[Ndawg12]

I hate to say this and maybe I'm wrong but from all I read when i was buying my first boat something old to fix up, the general consensus was that the old supra's were the best for wake boarding cause they have the highest free board so they can be loaded with a good bit of ballast and not have to be getting swamped all the time. that being said you will not get as good of a wake from a direct drive as you will from a V-drive. and also be careful when buy something old and fix it up. cause when I started out with an 1983 supra rider which was the first open bow ski boat in the industry a 19' open bow boat with a Chrysler 440 and started rebuilding it. and when i was all said and done I have about 25k into it, cause I'm one of those people when I work on something I redo everything and make it like new. like this supra was from the original owner only had 350-400 hours on it had not been run fro 12 years and the floor and stringers had rotted. so I started out working on it. new stringers and floor, the boat was an ugly tan color re gelcoat the whole boat white, rebuild the motor(forged pistons bored out line bored the mains balanced rotating assembly new aluminum heads intake carb cam roller rockers, rebuild trans with all new clutches and seals, closed cooling on engine,new oil coolers for engine and trans, rebuild starter, high output alternator, new strut bearings new prop shaft, new prop, new drivers seat with flip up bolster, all new gauges, all new interior all seat frames remade out of azek board so they never rot again. re molded the engine cover to be rounded like the new ones re molded dash, perfect pass gps, new shifter assembly, custom cup holders and speaker mounts, 04 gravity games tower with speakers and racks, clarion head unit and amps, ballast tanks built into the floor, rebuilt trailer with new boat-mate axles and swing tongue and put 18" wheels all stainless and braided stainless lines on trailer and lots of led lights. when you get to rebuilding an old boat the money adds up quick and now I will defiantly lose money when I sell this boat, going to start asking 20k and see what I end up getting, let alone all the hours I put into working on it. so now I basically have a better than brand new 1983 boat, which just is not the same as the new V-drives thats why I bought a new 2008 247 and i wanted something bigger

Hopefully you enjoyed the restoration process and got some good use out of the boat, unfortunatley I think you'll take a bath when you sell it. But yes, please post some

[Levi900RR]

In my experience. You can get a really nice late 90's sunsetter for ~15K. That being said. You can get a really nice late 80's sunsetter for less than 10K. Both of witch won't need much work. If your looking to spend less than that. I paid 5G's for a 93 Skier that needed an interior, low hours everything else was in great shape. Don't count out an Echelon LX either.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Levi900RR

[Michigan boarder]

I would stay away from anything with wood in it (sorry guys). That was the main reason I bought my Echelon. Got it cheap, and knew that of all the stuff that needed fixing, I knew I wouldn't have to pull the floor & engine up. I could visually inspect every other component, and run the engine, and know what I have.

But, a deal is a deal, and if you find a wood stringer deal, there are guys on this site that have made 'em like new again and I'm sure would provide a wealth of knowledge.

[Levi900RR]

My opinion... I have an all glass boat. When people are buying a boat they "Like" to hear that it has no wood. The fact is if you have a wood boat and you take care of it, it will be stronger and last as long as an all glass boat.

Problem is most people dont take care of them...

[Ndawg12]

First, welcome to the Crew.

If youre wanting the throw a big wake I dont know that you really want a Sunsetter. Thats what I have and the wake is OK with the wedge but it sounds like you looking for more than that so youll need ballast for sure. I think Malibu stopped using wood in 96 but I may be wrong.

93 was the first year of no wood.

Just to clarify, WG or someone might have more particulars, but wood began to be phased out in 93 or 94 but was not phased out of all models until 95 or 96....?

Edited September 17, 2010 by Ndawg12

[KRMartin123]

I'm selling my 98 21ft Sunsetter LX if your looking make me an offer!

[Mongoose]

You may want to take a look at the Supra as well. I have an 87 Saltare' It will put up a pretty hefty wake w/o a ballast tank. 98" beam 23' of boat. Big block chevy. Need I say more?

[Malibudude]

Just to clarify, WG or someone might have more particulars, but wood began to be phased out in 93 or 94 but was not phased out of all models until 95 or 96....?

It was '95 all wood was phased out, beginning w/ the echelon in '93.

[andersonauto]

Thanks for all the replies already very helpful. I'll clarify a few things, I have looked at older supra sunsports and maybe I'm wrong but I just don't feel the quality is right there, and they look like stringer work might be a little bit harder to do. I wouldn't mind one though and would definitely like to see pics of your restored supra. I haven't found any ones for a decent price with the amount of work required so far. I also like the looks of the sunsetter alot better, but do realize with ballast, I am going to have to be very careful not to swamp the boat. I definitely have to stay below 10k, I have thought about echelon lx but they are a little more pricy. I have been looking at nautique 2001's, I hear great wake but not enough people room, always out with 5-7 people. I have also looked at prostar 205's but am not sure I will find one in my budget. I do however have at least 2 good deals on susetters, well under budget, one with a new motor.

[WakeGirl]

For further clarification (since we're talking about Sunsetters), the Sunsetter didn't change to the SV23 all glass hull until '95. '93 & '94 are the old design with wood.

[jk13]

If this were last year and I didn't find my Echelon 30 miles away from home, I'd seriously consider a drive to FL for this PS205. It is also listed on onlyinboards, but their site is down right now. It looks like it needs a new interior, but for this price for one of the best do-it-all hulls ever, I'd be all over it. 93 is touted by many as the best, because it had the highest performance carb motor of the bunch. 94 went to TBI, which there were some issues with. Direct injection came a few years later, and will be out of your price range.

http://www.adpost.com/us/vehicles/762766/

http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=820794

Love my Echelon (which was far less than 10k if you are patient and find the right one) but I can't imagine being less happy with an all white PS205.

Edit: Actually, those are two different boats $50 difference. I've only seen one other all white 205 for sale ever. One in LA and one in FL. Take your pick for 8k. The tell tale that this isn't a scam is two different trailers and both are at dealerships.

Edited September 17, 2010 by jk13

[skicrave]

If you do end up going with a Malibu you definitely want a '95 or newer Sunsetter, which hull wise is nearly identical to a 2008 vRide (pretty good wake performance). The older Sunsetters prior to the modern era boats were significantly worse for generating a wakeboarding wake in my experience.

[martinarcher]

I have been very pleased with the wakeboard wake from my 87' Sunsetter. I have a custom wedge on mine that helps firm up the wake a bit, but I you added a bit of rear ballast you get almost the same result if not a bit rampier wake. We experimented with rear weight and the results were very good. We have been running about 700lbs in the walkway and the wedge down (could be replaced by around 800lbs of water easily). The boat has a lot more freeboard than my Skier and driving it weighted is much less of an issue. The boat does not easily dip the bow and even in rough water we haven't had trouble with the waterline.

We don't have any trouble surfing behind the boat and have plenty of water for inverts. If your budget is below 10k you'll have a boat with wooden stringers. I don't think that is bad at all. Just do your diligence before buying and make sure you get one that has been taken care of or if you plan to rebuild one make sure you get a good deal. IMO a well taken care of wood stringer boat is more rigid than any the same boat with fiberglass stringers.

Here's a bunch of pics of mine when rugger rebuilt it....

http://picasaweb.google.com/myfourday

I don't have any great wake pics, but here's a few that give you an idea....

Plenty of room too....

Edited September 18, 2010 by martinarcher

[andersonauto]

Thanks for those pics that really helps. It looks like the wake is pretty good it's hard to tell till you ride it. I have read the posts about that wedge install and from what I gather it adds a more solid lip to the wake not as rampy is that right? If so I almost want to redo stringers so I can brace up the transom and add a wedge. I really like a little steeper wake not to steep though. I really like your sunsetter, and anything whithin a couple years should be real similiar right? Thanks again very good info, nice to know you don't worry about taking on water too. I think I am leaning pretty heavily towards a late 80's early 90's sunsetter.

[WakeGirl]

Thanks for those pics that really helps. It looks like the wake is pretty good it's hard to tell till you ride it. I have read the posts about that wedge install and from what I gather it adds a more solid lip to the wake not as rampy is that right? If so I almost want to redo stringers so I can brace up the transom and add a wedge. I really like a little steeper wake not to steep though. I really like your sunsetter, and anything whithin a couple years should be real similiar right? Thanks again very good info, nice to know you don't worry about taking on water too. I think I am leaning pretty heavily towards a late 80's early 90's sunsetter.

Any Sunsetter from '94 back will be the same boat.

[martinarcher]

Any Sunsetter from '94 back will be the same boat.

Yep. The hull is the same on the Setter's from 94 back.

As far as the wedge, I would say it adds a bit more "meat" to the wake. The rampiness it creates seems to be based on the "stop" positions that wedge is in. rugger, the PO, built the wedge custom. It is basically a floating wedge with different stops to limit how far down the floater is allowed to go before it contacts the stops. In the "most aggressive" position, which basically holds the wedge at a more aggressive angle like the power wedge when it is not fully deployed the wake is certainly steeper. The middle position isn't quite as noticeable. I haven't tried it yet in the fully deployed position since I like ti so much where it is.

We were surfing today and I forgot to deploy the wedge. We had about 1300lbs of ballast in the boat and were listing pretty good. The wave was fun, but didn't have the push I was used to. I rode it for about 5 min until i fell and then deployed the wedge. Wow what a difference. The wave was visibly taller and has much much more push. If you plan on surfing I would highly recommend it.

If you have the capability to re-enforce the transom I would highly recommend adding a wedge. It works very well on the older hulls. Just be sure to do your homework on re-enforcing the boat as it certainly wasn't meant to handle the wedge off the factory floor.

Here's a pic of it. It is in the middle stop in this pic (bolt the wedge rests on is in the middle hole)...

Edited September 19, 2010 by martinarcher

[rugger]

I need to stop logging on until I get another boat... it's hard seeing the Sunsetter sometimes.

MA - Glad to hear it makes a big difference in surfing. We never surfed with it so I wondered. But just like boarding, the theory was the more control you have (ala power wedge) the better.

For the original poster, I don't think there's a right answer. I loved my classic enough to rebuild it, but by the same token sold it to buy a bigger V drive. Just boils down to what you intend to do with it, and how much you want to spend on the boating lifestyle. The classic hull did plenty for me. If I didn't have a big, social family, we'd have probably kept it.

I know MA agrees with me that one of the most underrated pros of the classics are the simplicity of the motor and drive train. No beeps, warnings and codes to troubleshoot. And they are very reliable.

Biggest cons (compared to newer boats) I think are storage, DD layout, rough water handling and a little underpowered for ballast/wedge. More power can added though.

I'm sure you can find a deal if you're willing to fix it up. Just mind the stringers.

[martinarcher]

I need to stop logging on until I get another boat... it's hard seeing the Sunsetter sometimes.

Sorry man. If it makes you feel better we love her!

I know MA agrees with me that one of the most underrated pros of the classics are the simplicity of the motor and drive train. No beeps, warnings and codes to troubleshoot. And they are very reliable.

Right on!

[andersonauto]

Thanks I love the advice just what I was looking for. I know I will definitely get a v-drive down the road but I have to stay below budget. I should be able to go to a lower pitch prop to handle some of the power problems, and I should be able to squeeze out a few more hp. How do the transmissions hold up to extra power? I guess as far as storage goes I'll just have to live with it.