Pulling my hair out over Rubrail

[malibucanuck]

As I have been reading and commenting in previous forum articles I've seen a trend developing in older model parts becoming obselete. The rubrail on my 93 Echelon needs to be replaced. I've looked at Taco and others products, but nothing comes close to the OEM. I contacted the closest dealer to order from Malibu rubrail and have been told that the two parts(the rubrail and insert) are no longer available. I've contacted the service dept at Malibu and they gave me the name of the manufacturer of their rubrails and even the part numbers they use to order the specific rubrail (things are going to work out!) The manufacturer informs me that they can produce it ,still have the Malibu numbers I quote him, but is prevented because it is an exclusive item to Malibu. Now what? What I'm thinking is that the rubrail or one of the same dimension is used on another Malibu model, perhaps, and if I know the model I can order it. Here are the dimensions and if anyone could help, let me know your model. Height is 1 1/4 inches ( this measurement is critical due to tower installation) and @ 7/8 inch wide. The OEM one is black with black insert, but at this point, a stainless or chrome would suffice. Thanks in advance for your help. I'm off to the phone, to petition Malibu customer service one more time.

Edited July 30, 2010 by malibucanuck

[jk13]

It actually sounds like you've gotten farther with this than anyone. I'll be handing a small piece of the soft insert to my brother next weekend to take to West Marine by his house and compare their samples. I'm not very hopeful.

I will say that if you come up with a solution, please post it because there are at least three other Echelon owners here that would be interested in an answer.

p.s. Have you looked at rubrailsdirect.com? They have outlines with dimensions posted to compare. Two piece complete should run $280-450 IIRC.

[Michigan boarder]

Check out the parts boat?

[malibucanuck]

Called Malibu and talked with Tisha Schortzmann who had sent me the previous email regarding the original manufacturer,she transfered me to another parts manager ,I think,I didn't catch his name, who listened to my sob story. He asked what dealer I dealt with , put me on hold, apparently called the dealer, took me off hold and told me to call the dealer/parts manager and place my order! So it looks like it is going to have a happy ending after all. I hope when it arrives that there is still opportunity to put it on and hit the water. Or next season!

[Sunsetter95]

Well, let me tell you what I have run into. The person you have most likely spoke to is Dave Olano. I have been dealing with him for over 2 months trying to get the correct insert for my new and installed base.

The issue is that the insert that they say is for the base that fits my boat, a '95 Sunsetter, does not fit the base they sent me (the second time). The first try is the base in the first pic, top. The second try was the correct base, first pic, lower.

Dave doesn't seem to return calls or emails. I think he may be dodging my calls as well... or at least it seems that way.

I have about 20 ft of my old base but no insert if you need some. Mind you it is from '95 so I don't think it will roll up without snapping. I may be able to find a pic of it. The place that they deal with is on the east coast somewhere. I missed the name when I was talking to Dave. Something Extrusions.... Anyway, the base is a snap to install. You will need a heat gun ($40 at Harbor Freight Tools), about 100 - 125 pop rivets or screws, and a pop rivet gun and drill. Oh, and another person.

Pic 1, is my issue. You can clearly see that the insert fits the top base. Mine is the bottom.

Pic 2, is a rail from Morse Industries (they never responded after several tries).

Pic 3, the bottom is a cross section of my old OEM base.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Sunsetter95

[malibucanuck]

The name of the company is Creative Extrusion Products (937 667 4785) they also have a 1 800 number on their website. The guy I spoke with there is Brad Gross ext 3042. If you give him the Malibu Part Number of your rail he may be able to match the insert you need. The part number Malibu gave me was the same as the number at CEP. Hope this helps and that I don't run into the same problem. It appears from your pics that the two are not even the same nevermind the insert.

Edited August 2, 2010 by malibucanuck

[dutchtouch]

Newbie her...thought the rubrail was called a bumper till a week ago. was either one of you successful repairing your rubrail? I am in the process of buying a 1995 Echelon. The rubrail in both corners is damaged and needs to be fixed. Does this mean I have to replace the entire rubrail or can you replace parts of it? I guess more importantly, were you able to purchase the rplacement rubrail materials. Thanks for the help...any and all suggestions are appreciated.

[Sunsetter95]

Newbie her...thought the rubrail was called a bumper till a week ago. was either one of you successful repairing your rubrail? I am in the process of buying a 1995 Echelon. The rubrail in both corners is damaged and needs to be fixed. Does this mean I have to replace the entire rubrail or can you replace parts of it? I guess more importantly, were you able to purchase the replacement rubrail materials. Thanks for the help...any and all suggestions are appreciated.

First off, welcome to the site.

OK, this is where I stand. I have sent Creative my pics of the base and insert. After Brad reviewed them, and the Malibu part numbers, he stated that he will have to turn this over to the quality department. He could easily see that the two parts do not match, and all the number say they should. This was last Thursday (8/19). I have the pics I sent him below.

If you base looks like the OEM base I attached, and you only need a few feet to make a repair, I can send you some of my old base. If you are looking to spruce your boat up with new rubrail, I suggest waiting until this is resolved or try another supplier to get the parts from.

I am going to follow up Monday on this. I have been screwing with this since March.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Sunsetter95

[dutchtouch]

First off, welcome to the site.

OK, this is where I stand. I have sent Creative my pics of the base and insert. After Brad reviewed them, and the Malibu part numbers, he stated that he will have to turn this over to the quality department. He could easily see that the two parts do not match, and all the number say they should. This was last Thursday (8/19). I have the pics I sent him below.

If you base looks like the OEM base I attached, and you only need a few feet to make a repair, I can send you some of my old base. If you are looking to spruce your boat up with new rubrail, I suggest waiting until this is resolved or try another supplier to get the parts from.

I am going to follow up Monday on this. I have been screwing with this since March.

Thanks for the info! Good luck on Monday! I don't remember exactly what needed to be done to it. I'll get back in touch with you once I see the boat again and perhaps talk to you about getting some of your old base. Here is hoping your frustrations end on Monday

[Sunsetter95]

Well maybe this time I will get the correct insert. Dave at Malibu said that they made sure it fit a base like they sent me. ??? I hope so! I should receive it this week. What a pain. This is month six since I bought the first parts.

[kkosche]

Well maybe this time I will get the correct insert. Dave at Malibu said that they made sure it fit a base like they sent me. ??? I hope so! I should receive it this week. What a pain. This is month six since I bought the first parts.

So in the end you purchased a complete rub rail (base + insert)?

I have Emails w/pictures into Creative Extruded and Barbourplastics. Closest match I have found for my application is a TACO A11-0334TAL12D which dimensionally is very close, but out of aluminum. Given my budget, I don't want to replace the full 40 feet of rail. . . so I will wait to hear back from Creative and Barbour and if no dice, I will go with the TACO product (ordered from West Marine most likely ~$60). I may end up "harvesting base molding from the transom area of the boat (less visible) use for my port side replacement (30" section) and then put the TACO (will need to paint the aluminum semi black) on the back.

[Sunsetter95]

Well maybe this time I will get the correct insert. Dave at Malibu said that they made sure it fit a base like they sent me. ??? I hope so! I should receive it this week. What a pain. This is month six since I bought the first parts.

Some of you asked to keep you updated on this issue.

No! They (Malibu and Creative) did not send the correct insert. They keep sending me the same one that I have in the base that will not stay locked. It just takes a little flip with your fingers and the insert pops out of the base. I have sent pictures of cross sections showing the issue and nothing. If this is the best Malibu and Creative can do, I may have to go another direction when I go to buy a new boat. If they can't get something as simple as a rub rail correct, what makes you think that they can build the boat correctly. 7 months of BS now dealing with this. They will rarely answer emails. Either of them, Dave O. or Brad G. I seems that I have to call continuously to get any response.

I paid the money that asked for the part they said fit. Is it to much to ask that it is the correct one? It shouldn't be.

[Sunsetter95]

Well another month has gone by and I still don't have a match for the base that was shipped to me from Malibu. Dave even tried to send a sample of a SS insert, but it is not even close and their parts people sent me a 15ft piece, not just a sample. What the "H" am I going to do with that?

I don't know what Creative's issue is but they sure lack process or quality control. IMO, Malibu should drop all ties with them. There has got to be other mfg's that will do business with Malibu.

This really sucks!

[SmoothWaterMan]

Doug,

From a quick read it sounds like you have the wrong base.

Here is what I believe you need :

5050101; Molding, Rub Rail, Base, Black, 50', Butt Fit, '96;

stock in CA

50501112; Molding, Rub Rail, Insert, Black, 55', AR, '09;

stock in TN

These two parts will fit any 20' model with a edge-to-edge fit, (not shoebox) that was used by Malibu starting with the Echelon in 93, up until the late 90's if I recall.

If it will help I can order these for you - just email or call. (No PM's)

Peter

[Sunsetter95]

Doug,

From a quick read it sounds like you have the wrong base.

Here is what I believe you need :

5050101; Molding, Rub Rail, Base, Black, 50', Butt Fit, '96;

stock in CA

50501112; Molding, Rub Rail, Insert, Black, 55', AR, '09;

stock in TN

These two parts will fit any 20' model with a edge-to-edge fit, (not shoebox) that was used by Malibu starting with the Echelon in 93, up until the late 90's if I recall.

If it will help I can order these for you - just email or call. (No PM's)

Peter

Well Peter, I have gone round and round with Dave Olano at Malibu. We have talked to Creative Extruded Products as well and they quit answering Dave while trying to get to the bottom of this issue. Yes those are the part numbers I received, as well as a couple of others that were updated to the ones you have above. The issue is that in the pics below, I am holding the first base they sent me along with the insert just below. That base is the incorrect base because of the little tab sticking out the one edge. If you look at the opening of the base I am holding and compare the angle of the locking surfaces, you can easily see that they are a match. Now the bottom base in that same pic is the one they sent me to replace the incorrect one. I asked them at the time about the insert and they assured me that it was the same insert for both bases. Without checking them together, I installed the second base. The install went perfectly fine and it looked great. Then I went to "just pop in the insert".... buzz WRONG! Three hours of pounding with a rubber mallet, I was able to get it where it is today. It stays in as long as you don't catch the edge of it. I mean it only takes a single finger nail to pop it out almost anywhere around the boat. Every time I have come back from the lake, I have to go around and pound it back into the base. I truly believe that Creative's die that is used for the base I have, was not made to the correct specs. If the sides that curl over were not curved as far around, like the base in the top pic, I would not be having this issue for the last seven months.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Sunsetter95

[SmoothWaterMan]

What are the part numbers that they sent?

I just installed the part numbers that I listed which were a match. I would still assume that one of the parts you got was incorrect, either in part number or they pulled the wrong part.

Peter

[Sunsetter95]

What are the part numbers that they sent?

I just installed the part numbers that I listed which were a match. I would still assume that one of the parts you got was incorrect, either in part number or they pulled the wrong part.

Peter

Peter,

From Dave Olano at Malibu: "Rub rail base on your boat is part #5050101. Inserts sent were 5050111, 5051111, and 5051112."

Either way, they certainly should be able to get the correct insert for the base they sent me. I have provided several pic with and without a scale to inspect. Brad at Creative said that their Quality dept, or lack there of, said that they didn't think that that was even their base. Dave tracked it down and said it came from Creative, straight to Malibu, then straight to my local dealer and me.

If you say the parts matched, could you provide a cross section for the base and insert that you have installed as I did above. I told Dave that at this point, I didn't care if I had to strip the base off and install one that will have a match with the insert. It will cost me the fasteners and the time, but I will not have to worry about the insert falling off while on the lake and causing possible damage to the boat should it get caught up in the prop.

[SmoothWaterMan]

I don't have parts to show a cross section Doug, but that really should be unneeded. #5050101 and #5051112 are the correct components. If incorrect inserts were attempted to be installed there is always the chance that the base is damaged and no longer will hold the correct insert, but that's something best viewed by a dealer I expect.

Hope that helps,

Peter

[Sunsetter95]

I don't have parts to show a cross section Doug, but that really should be unneeded. #5050101 and #5051112 are the correct components. If incorrect inserts were attempted to be installed there is always the chance that the base is damaged and no longer will hold the correct insert, but that's something best viewed by a dealer I expect.

Hope that helps,

Peter

The dealer has seen the parts. There is no damage to the base. I am not some frigging idiot. I can probably perform any or most tasks as good as any other technician can. Rebuild engines, electrical: home, auto, or light commercial, and other mechanical. And, if I have never done it before, I'll figure it out. That is what I do for a living, figure out issues in the semiconductor industry now, flight control SW before, and mechanical before that.

This is not a me issue. From an engineering stand point, the pieces that were provided to me by Creative via Malibu, do not go together. At least not the ones they shipped to me.

[SmoothWaterMan]

Doug,

I'm not insinuating that you are incorrect, and I would never insinuate that someone was an idiot. I'm stating that the two parts I referred to are correct. I do not know if that is what is sent, or if there is any other issue. I'm sorry I can't help beyond this, but don't take it personal. I was just offering my experience, nothing more, nothing less.

Peter.

[Chia]

Doug,

I'm not insinuating that you are incorrect, and I would never insinuate that someone was an idiot. I'm stating that the two parts I referred to are correct. I do not know if that is what is sent, or if there is any other issue. I'm sorry I can't help beyond this, but don't take it personal. I was just offering my experience, nothing more, nothing less.

Peter.

I agree, As i read it, Peter has just been trying to help. We are lucky to have Peter on board to help us with problems that we encounter. It seems he went beyond just knowledge, he researched the part numbers and supplied information in a constructive manner.

Good luck, I hope you get the problem resolved.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Cervelo

[Sunsetter95]

Update: Still no answer from Malibu.

The latest communication from them on 12/22/2010:

"Doug,

Parts are coming directly from the manufacturer. I’m waiting for a tracking #. As soon as I receive it I will forward it on to you.

Daveo"

I have sent three emails to them and have yet to get a response this year. I am now approaching one year dealing with this.

At this point, I believe I have lost my faith in Malibu!

Update: Just asked if I needed to get an attorney involved. They responded.

[Sunsetter95]

Well I finally got the correct base to fit the insert. I had to do a complete re-install of the rubrail but at least the insert does not fall out. It only took Malibu about a year to get a better fitting base sent from Creative Extruded Products.

Taking a cross section of the new base, it is still not a perfect match, but at least it is closer.

[Steve B.]

Doug,

I'm not insinuating that you are incorrect, and I would never insinuate that someone was an idiot. I'm stating that the two parts I referred to are correct. I do not know if that is what is sent, or if there is any other issue. I'm sorry I can't help beyond this, but don't take it personal. I was just offering my experience, nothing more, nothing less.

Peter.

Of course, I'm tinkering the idea I may want to replace my rubrail on my 95 Sunsetter too !

I'm thinking of doing a complete wet sand and polishing and removing/replacing the rubrail. If you guy's figure this out for sure, please keep us updated.

Steve B.