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Use boat buying...your take?


martho

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Let's say you bought the 2001 RLX, hypothetically for X amount. Assume X amount is high retail, just for kicks. Let's say you could get the 250 hour 97 mint SN for 17k . Take x-17k = F. F is for Fun, because that is a handful of cash and you still have arguably one of the best ski boats ever.

Take 17K, pay your 6.5% sales tax and you have 18,105. Add PP, heater,shower and you have almost 20K.

Sorry, no cash to have in pocket for any F regardless of the value of X

No need for PP in a CC...they almost drive themselves. Good luck with your choice Martho. We love having you here, don't leave us if you decide to jump to the dark side.

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VinRLX,

I couldn't find a late model Malibu Response for sale when I was looking for a new boat, at least not in the price range I was shopping for.  The only Malibu I have ever skiied behind was my old Echelon.  I would have to say, if I were in the market for a brand new boat, it would probably be a Response LXI.   

As for getting out on the water more.  I am not good enough to ski the course (yet) and after an up and back of good hard skiing, its all I can do to make it home and let go.  Maybe I am just a whimp.

Hey, I was just bustin' on ya about the amount of ski time. And I'm right there with you on this: If I were looking brand new today (or tomorrow) it would be at the RLXi. :)

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gr, you owe it to yourself to ski/drive a 2003+ Response or LXi. Albeit a 196 is a fine boat.

Why would a 2003 RLX drive different then a 98 RLX(first year of diamond)? This is a silly post, vin. Bus and SN's drive different. One on top of the water, one practically under water. All personal preference.

In 2003 the hp of the Monsoon was boosted by 10, one year later by another 5. Thus my choice of that year and newer. At the very, very least, more performance as measured by the Butt Dyno.

"All personal preference." Yup. And I was stating mine. Didn't realize posting an opinion on a message board such as this would be "silly." I'll try to be more careful from now on.

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Just don't plan to barefoot behind it.

What is the basis for this statement?

The basis? The basis is that if there is one event that a CBSN does worse than wakeboard, is barefoot.

Its too slow, too turbulent, too washy, too slow, and too turbulent....did I mention its too slow?

This is why I asked the question. And can't imagine Mark buying a boat with these characteristics knowing his penchant for footing.

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Once again, there is NWIH I would consider this boat. Futhermore, I am not looking for a boat right now. My RLX is for sale. If it sells, it sells. Then I will look at the options. I guarantee I will not end up with a SN of any kind if my RLX sells.

That red SN is 9 model years old and closed bow. The used market for this boat is very very very small. Furthermore, if you beleive the walk thru open bow in high end slalom boats is here to stay, these old CB boats are going to have less of an already limited market. A nine year old CB, hard core slalom boat is a poor financial move.

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VinRLX,

I couldn't find a late model Malibu Response for sale when I was looking for a new boat, at least not in the price range I was shopping for.  The only Malibu I have ever skiied behind was my old Echelon.  I would have to say, if I were in the market for a brand new boat, it would probably be a Response LXI.   

As for getting out on the water more.  I am not good enough to ski the course (yet) and after an up and back of good hard skiing, its all I can do to make it home and let go.  Maybe I am just a whimp.

Hey, I was just bustin' on ya about the amount of ski time. And I'm right there with you on this: If I were looking brand new today (or tomorrow) it would be at the RLXi. :)

VinRLX,

I know you were just kidding around with me. I can go out and run 3 or 4 miles but 4 or 5 minutes of slalom skiing and I can barely stand, thats pretty whimpy.

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  A nine year old CB, hard core slalom boat is a poor financial move.

All depends on what you pay for it. What kind of a hit do you think people are taking on high end wakeboard boats that th trade in in 2 or 3 years?

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All depends on what you pay for it. What kind of a hit do you think people are taking on high end wakeboard boats that th trade in in 2 or 3 years?

Exactly my point. If you are looking for a good financial move, buy an OB 02 03 04 boat, which has taken its initial hit, run it for a year or two and sell it for most of what you have into it. Then, repeat the process.

For the red SN above, what happens when CC comes out with a RLXi comparable boat? All the hard core 196 fans will jump to it. The market will be flooded with 196's and older SN's. We know that a majority of the 196 market is tourney/private lakes. When CC has an approved RLXi competitor, say goodbye to resale on the 196. Which is what happened to the CB Response and Sporty. Luckily the RLX still has the semi OB for family potential resale.

This is my opinion and you can do with as you wish. The CB market will die a quick death in the next few years.

Edited by martho
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Man, this really get's out of hand trying to keep up on everything.

I have a 10 yr old BU. Then and at this time, I can not afford to step up to a newer one. One thing I have found is that you can not trust the hour meter. Ours said 628 hrs, but we found out later from the dealer that the previous owner's kids really used and abused it. Yes, I got it for a low price, but I put several 1K's back into it to get it where I wanted it over the last 2 years. It had a new interior the year before we bought it so that was not an issue, but the engine turned out to be just about worn out and tossed the impeller the first time out and blew a head gasket.

My point is you have to take each boat in a case by case evaluation. I would also stay with the boats that have composite stringers.

In my case, I was interested more in the hull and interior condition, than the engine. I knew I could do allot of the repairs myself if needed. It turned out, unfortunately that I had to replaced the engine. That was a bit more that I had anticipated on.

My two cents, well maybe 4 cents.

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There are still some people who will always like a CB better. Me for one. I don't know what the appeal is in a OB Sporty or Response. I think the open bow area in those boats is useless as well as ugly and I have a family of 5. No doubt though, the market speaks for itself, and OBs are more popular, although clearly overated.

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I think there is definitely something to the "sleekness" of the CB. Though I don't find the OB objectionable in any way. We use ours a few times a season. When we do, I'm really glad that it's there. RLXi has gobs more room with the walkthrough. If I could just find the right opportunity to have the wife sit in one. . .

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I agree with both of you. I liked the look of my Sporty CB. I liked it because I always wanted a tourney inboard. For years and years, a tourney inboard meant CB.

My OB in the RLX is mostly useless. I have had two people in it all summer. I cant remember putting any gear up there, either.

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All depends on what you pay for it. What kind of a hit do you think people are taking on high end wakeboard boats that th trade in in 2 or 3 years?

Exactly my point. If you are looking for a good financial move, buy an OB 02 03 04 boat, which has taken its initial hit, run it for a year or two and sell it for most of what you have into it. Then, repeat the process.

For the red SN above, what happens when CC comes out with a RLXi comparable boat? All the hard core 196 fans will jump to it. The market will be flooded with 196's and older SN's. We know that a majority of the 196 market is tourney/private lakes. When CC has an approved RLXi competitor, say goodbye to resale on the 196. Which is what happened to the CB Response and Sporty. Luckily the RLX still has the semi OB for family potential resale.

This is my opinion and you can do with as you wish. The CB market will die a quick death in the next few years.

Lol. The competitor/comparo boat is out there. It's called the 206. 20 foot walk through hardcore slalom boat. It is more expensive, and has less space than the RLXI, but that is the "comparable" boat. CC is no going to make a bigger, cheaper boat- I don't see it happening, ever. It is AWSA approved and used in the promo program as well. I have not heard anything bad about the wake, other than compared directly to the 196 and most say, no real big difference. Amazing how they still manage to sell all the 196s they make, year after year and the resale values are extremely high. Also amazing the CB 196 used value is very similar to the OB RLX year after year (if not higher). There must be a lot of stupid people out there.

Edited by M3Fan
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Amazing how they still manage to sell all the 196s they make, year after year and the resale values are extremely high. Also amazing the CB 196 used value is very similar to the OB RLX year after year (if not higher).

How many 196's are sold each year? I can tell you that the number for the local dealer is very small...low single digits. It's not amazing to me to see the 196 used value similar to a RLX. The amazing thing is that the 196 started life at a 20 - 25% price premium over the RLX. Drinking the CC kool aid... Wine.gifYuk.gifCheers.gifVomit.gif

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Amazing how they still manage to sell all the 196s they make, year after year and the resale values are extremely high. Also amazing the CB 196 used value is very similar to the OB RLX year after year (if not higher).

How many 196's are sold each year? I can tell you that the number for the local dealer is very small...low single digits. It's not amazing to me to see the 196 used value similar to a RLX. The amazing thing is that the 196 started life at a 20 - 25% price premium over the RLX. Drinking the CC kool aid... Wine.gifYuk.gifCheers.gifVomit.gif

Ok, I thought of that. I'd like to see the numbers proving the statment on the price difference. My main point was it is the "cursed" cb and the RLX is the "hot" OB. The Kool aid comment was funny though...

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I don't disagree a bit that the cb boat is becoming less and less popular. As far as resale value, I think the bottom has already started to drop out for used 196s. Compare the resale value of a 196 to any other boat in CC's lineup and I would guarantee it is considerably less as a percentage of purchase price. From what I can see a 1 year old 196 can be had for maybe $31 or 32k when its purchase price was probably closer to $40-42k. The same year 206 will probably cost you about $5-7k more when a new 206 probably costs 2-3k than a new 196.

Like others, I prefer a closed bow boat. I had an OB boat and I hated having people in the open bow when pulling a skier or even driving at speed. When I bought my current boat, I sought out a closed bow boat. It wasn't real easy to find one but the price I paid for a low hour 2000 196, well I don't think I could have found a same year any other name brand tourament boat for much less money. I realize when I go to sell it someday, I will probably have a hard time but I will cross that bridge when I get there. I guess I know that Martho will not be buying it.

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Lol. The competitor/comparo boat is out there. It's called the 206. 20 foot walk through hardcore slalom boat. It is more expensive, and has less space than the RLXI, but that is the "comparable" boat. CC is no going to make a bigger, cheaper boat- I don't see it happening, ever. It is AWSA approved and used in the promo program as well. I have not heard anything bad about the wake, other than compared directly to the 196 and most say, no real big difference. Amazing how they still manage to sell all the 196s they make, year after year and the resale values are extremely high. Also amazing the CB 196 used value is very similar to the OB RLX year after year (if not higher). There must be a lot of stupid people out there.

The direct comparison of the 196 vs RLXi is accurate. Does CC send a 206 to pull the tournaments when the other boat is an RLXi? How about at the pro level? Is it 196 vs RLXi or is it 206 vs RLXi?

IIRC from previous posts,

1. Ski locker in a 206 is too small for a slalom stick in excess of 67".

2. Observer's seat covers part of the walk thru area in a 206

3. Open bow area is substantially smaller than RLXi

5. Observer's seat in 2006 folds over covering the in floor ski locker which wont fit a full size ski, either. Doesnt that make it a step over open bow? Option for $1500

for this seat. The standard seat is only one person wide.

5. 206 has a 91" beam, and the RLXi has a 93.5" beam + doesnt taper back like a

CC hull does.

6. RLXi MSRP $38,9xx, CC doesnt advertise? I can't find a direct options to

options comparison on boat trader for used value. 7. 2975lbs 206 vs 2800lbs

RLXi dry weight

8 206 seats 9, RLXi seats 8

9. Can someone help us with a wakeboarding perspective of the two boats as the

RLXi has the wedge. I dont think the "gate" thingy was on the boats in 05 and

that is what I am trying to compare.

From what I have read, both boats ski well. Are these boats still competitors for each other? Seems like they have totally different target markets.

As stated above from a CC owner, 196 resale is not "extremely" high

Edited by martho
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I have re-read my above post. I would like to add that I am not a CC hater or CC lover. I don't have the CC is great, or Bu is great mentality. All boats have their merits.

Furthermore, you can put 90% of the people on bu crew behind any of the big 3 boats and it will not affect their performance AT ALL!

I slalom ski behind an 88 PS, a 90 SN and a 01 RLX. We all know which boat has the best wakes.....or do we? I ski the same regardless of which boat I am behind unless the speed control is an issue.

Edited by martho
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I have re-read my above post.  I would like to add that I am not a CC hater or CC lover.  I don't have the CC is great, or Bu is great mentality.  All boats have their merits. 

Furthermore, you can put 90% of the people on bu crew behind any of the big 3 boats and it will not affect their performance AT ALL!

I slalom ski behind an 88 PS, a 90 SN and a 01 RLX.  We all know which boat has the best wakes.....or do we?  I ski the same regardless of which boat I am behind unless the speed control is an issue.

The only thing that I will say to that comment is that it's only true if they don't know what boat it is they're behind. The mind is powerful & will make you think that it will be soooo much different when in fact it may not be very different at all (or maybe it really is, this is an extremely subjective thing that we're talking about). Of course we're speaking of flat wakes here, big wakes are a whole different ballgame. :lol:

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Malibu has found a great boat in the Rlxi being a good 3 event boat as well as a family boat, but I don't see CC dropping their 196 as long as they are seen as one of the best, if not the best tourney boat. No doubt, the CB 3 event boat market is more limited than it ever has been, and shrinking. Surprisingly though , I was talking to the guy who owns New England CC this past Spring and he said the 196 is by far his best seller. That's definately not the case with the local Malibu dealer. It's VDs by far.

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