92 Brendella Supper comp slow as molasses!

[chadwick02]

I picked up a buddies 1992 ski brendella supper comp to us as an “interm” boat until my new VTX shows up early august (hopefully!). My 21LSV is due to be picked up by its new owners any day, and I didn’t want to be left with no boat in july! L

Anyhow, this brendella, 1992, 600 hours on the clock, PCM 351 with what appears to be a ‘demon’ 4 barrel carburetor and MSD electronic ignition, and a few other goodies. Its in good shape, but has not been run in at least a year, maybe two or three.... Fluids look great! It was a friend of mine’s, and he just didn’t have time to use it anymore. Well taken care of, and the price was fair. I picked it up with knowledge that it hadn’t run in a few years and he said if I couldn’t get it going I could bring it back.

A fresh charge on the batteries and 20 gallons of fresh gas in the tank and It started right up no problem! In neutral it revs up to 4500 or 5,000RPM’s and sounds awesome! BUT, as soon as I get it in the water it is a dog. Slow out of the hole (will pull an average slalom skier out of the water, but barely), and I cant get it to go a hair over 3500rpms when under load.

With 4 guys in the boat I couldn’t even get it to go over 3300rpm, but as we got rid of weight, the maximum RPM would be a little higher each time, to where it toped out at 3500 with just me. The engine appears to be running smooth and fine. 3500rpm = about 36mph, according to GPS, but cant get any more out of it.

My first impression was that for some reason maybe it had a grossly wrong prop on it and it just couldn’t spin up enough – especially since the engine will rev to 5K in neutral. I replaced the plugs and fuel filter, cap and rotor look perfect.

I had a close friend come up today, he’s a good ford mechanic. He combed through the engine, adjusted the carbs, checked the timing…etc. Was thoroughly impressed with the motor and how it ran. Thought it was a pretty crazy setup infact! He said the motor was running in tip-top shape, no problems there. Carb is wide open when throttle is wide open, secondary vacuum is activating the 3^rd and 4^th barrel also. It sounds like that engine is giving it everything its got and then some.

He felt the performance of the boat was great also. BUT, he’s not a boat guy. It does run better and pull harder than most I/O boats I’ve been in in the past, but its nothing compared to the other malibu’s I’ve been in (mostly year 2001+ models). Looking at the engine horsepower (and torque), and the weight of that brendella, I would have guessed that it should have had a very similar pull to the ski boats I am accustom too. I cannot see how you could put a bunch of guys in this thing and try to pull a wakeboarder??? More than 2 or 3 in the boat and you wouldn’t even pull a slalom at 36. Maybe it is pushing too much of a prop. Or maybe ski boats have come along ways in 10 years and I’m spoiled?

SO, a few questions:

1. Anyone have experience with early 90’s brendella’s? They seem to be kinda common, and seem to be pretty good boats.

2. Anyone know how big the fuel tank is? I opted NOT to drain the old fuel out (thinking it was fairly empty), and when I filled it took 20 gallons. Trying to figure out how much old (bad?) fuel is actually in there. Gas gauge appears to be working and was reading less than a ¼ before I filled it. Does that sound correct?

3. the prop on it is labeled OJ 1 1/8 13x11.5 It’s a 3 blade. Does that sound like the correct prop for the boat? Is there any reason that with only one person in the boat, that prop should be the reason its not going above 3500rpm’s?? Any good recommendations??

4. What is “redline” on this boat? What should I be topping out at for RPM’s, speed?

My bud left for vacation in northern Maine (no cell reception) this morning, so I’m flying solo on this thing till he gets back. He’s not mechanically inclined either, had a marina do the work. Any info anyone can provide would be great! I’ve included a few pics. I’m not afraid to buy a prop for this thing, that’s what my buddies seem to think it needs. But I’m having a tough time believing that a brendella with a stock prop couldn’t get out of the way of a kayak if it had too!!

Thanks,

Chad

[Levi900RR]

I picked up a buddies 1992 ski brendella supper comp to us as an “interm” boat until my new VTX shows up early august (hopefully!). My 21LSV is due to be picked up by its new owners any day, and I didn’t want to be left with no boat in july! L

Anyhow, this brendella, 1992, 600 hours on the clock, PCM 351 with what appears to be a ‘demon’ 4 barrel carburetor and MSD electronic ignition, and a few other goodies. Its in good shape, but has not been run in at least a year, maybe two or three.... Fluids look great! It was a friend of mine’s, and he just didn’t have time to use it anymore. Well taken care of, and the price was fair. I picked it up with knowledge that it hadn’t run in a few years and he said if I couldn’t get it going I could bring it back.

A fresh charge on the batteries and 20 gallons of fresh gas in the tank and It started right up no problem! In neutral it revs up to 4500 or 5,000RPM’s and sounds awesome! BUT, as soon as I get it in the water it is a dog. Slow out of the hole (will pull an average slalom skier out of the water, but barely), and I cant get it to go a hair over 3500rpms when under load.

With 4 guys in the boat I couldn’t even get it to go over 3300rpm, but as we got rid of weight, the maximum RPM would be a little higher each time, to where it toped out at 3500 with just me. The engine appears to be running smooth and fine. 3500rpm = about 36mph, according to GPS, but cant get any more out of it.

My first impression was that for some reason maybe it had a grossly wrong prop on it and it just couldn’t spin up enough – especially since the engine will rev to 5K in neutral. I replaced the plugs and fuel filter, cap and rotor look perfect.

I had a close friend come up today, he’s a good ford mechanic. He combed through the engine, adjusted the carbs, checked the timing…etc. Was thoroughly impressed with the motor and how it ran. Thought it was a pretty crazy setup infact! He said the motor was running in tip-top shape, no problems there. Carb is wide open when throttle is wide open, secondary vacuum is activating the 3^rd and 4^th barrel also. It sounds like that engine is giving it everything its got and then some.

He felt the performance of the boat was great also. BUT, he’s not a boat guy. It does run better and pull harder than most I/O boats I’ve been in in the past, but its nothing compared to the other malibu’s I’ve been in (mostly year 2001+ models). Looking at the engine horsepower (and torque), and the weight of that brendella, I would have guessed that it should have had a very similar pull to the ski boats I am accustom too. I cannot see how you could put a bunch of guys in this thing and try to pull a wakeboarder??? More than 2 or 3 in the boat and you wouldn’t even pull a slalom at 36. Maybe it is pushing too much of a prop. Or maybe ski boats have come along ways in 10 years and I’m spoiled?

SO, a few questions:

1. Anyone have experience with early 90’s brendella’s? They seem to be kinda common, and seem to be pretty good boats.

2. Anyone know how big the fuel tank is? I opted NOT to drain the old fuel out (thinking it was fairly empty), and when I filled it took 20 gallons. Trying to figure out how much old (bad?) fuel is actually in there. Gas gauge appears to be working and was reading less than a ¼ before I filled it. Does that sound correct?

3. the prop on it is labeled OJ 1 1/8 13x11.5 It’s a 3 blade. Does that sound like the correct prop for the boat? Is there any reason that with only one person in the boat, that prop should be the reason its not going above 3500rpm’s?? Any good recommendations??

4. What is “redline” on this boat? What should I be topping out at for RPM’s, speed?

My bud left for vacation in northern Maine (no cell reception) this morning, so I’m flying solo on this thing till he gets back. He’s not mechanically inclined either, had a marina do the work. Any info anyone can provide would be great! I’ve included a few pics. I’m not afraid to buy a prop for this thing, that’s what my buddies seem to think it needs. But I’m having a tough time believing that a brendella with a stock prop couldn’t get out of the way of a kayak if it had too!!

Thanks,

Chad

This is the exact same thing my Skier was doing before I cleaned the Carb. I know you said your buddy checked it out...

Does it seem to run smoothly or does it cut out and sputter?

[Woodski]

It appears from the pictures the carb, distributor and ignition are all aftermarket. One thing to consider on the replacement ignition system is that it is probably not a marine version so it will be more prone to moisture problems. The carb might be a big on the large side for that particular setup which could affect throttle response.

I would certainly check to see if there is any type of restriction in the exhaust side, ensure the firing order is correct and I assume you have verified the ignition timing settings, particularly at running rpm's not just at idle. Also, verify the coil is wired correctly. You should also check and see if there is a fuel tank filter and change the water separator.

The prop sounds reasonable, that boat should run up to at least 46-4800 rpm and top out in the mid to high 40's.

[85 Barefoot]

The prop sounds reasonable, that boat should run up to at least 46-4800 rpm and top out in the mid to high 40's.

Those both sound high to me. I've been told by a real propr guru my carbed 454 shouldn't run past 4400, and neither should any carbed ski boat engine. EFI is fine to turn a lot more due to accuracy of fuel charge. That was also a real bow down boat. I'd say hitting 42 is the target.

[WakeGirl]

Those both sound high to me. I've been told by a real propr guru my carbed 454 shouldn't run past 4400, and neither should any carbed ski boat engine. EFI is fine to turn a lot more due to accuracy of fuel charge. That was also a real bow down boat. I'd say hitting 42 is the target.

That's because you have a big block, apples & oranges. Big blocks, particularly a 454, make their power differently & at different rpms. Woodski is dead on with what that engine should push.

Chad, I think that I'd grab the model number off of that prop & give OJ a call just to eliminate that potentiality.

[85 Barefoot]

That's because you have a big block, apples & oranges. Big blocks, particularly a 454, make their power differently & at different rpms. Woodski is dead on with what that engine should push.

Chad, I think that I'd grab the model number off of that prop & give OJ a call just to eliminate that potentiality.

That's all well and good, I was just saying I was told by a prop guru, whose name I will not mention, that a carbed ski boat engine shouldn't run up that high...not just a 454 (see my first post). If you and woodski think otherwise, that's fine.

[99response]

The 310 carb'd Indmars spin up to 4800-4900 RPM no problem. Obviously a 240 hp 351 is a different story but it should definitely spin at least 4400 WOT, and it's no where near that.

Chad, what is the CFM spec on that carb?

-Chris

[jk13]

Did the mechanic that came by check the fuel filters and actually clean the carb?

If that boat is a 1:1 direct drive, that should be the correct prop. Being that your RPM and MPH are about 100:1, it should be.

If that boat is NOT a 1:1 and is a reduction drive, you would have the opposite problem of over-revving and need more pitch.

That is the prop that OJ recommended for my 1:1 carb Echelon. It is also the prob my buddy uses on his PCM Supra Comp carb.

I would say with a fair amount of certainty that if the prop is in good shape, it is NOT the problem. If the prop is hammered to where the blades are pointing straght back, then it may be.

I would say that you need to clean all the filters you have for fuel. If that doesn't help, find the old school performance guy (drag racer) in your area and have him look at the motor. A compression test may be in your future.

[Shine]

That's because you have a big block, apples & oranges. Big blocks, particularly a 454, make their power differently & at different rpms. Woodski is dead on with what that engine should push.

Chad, I think that I'd grab the model number off of that prop & give OJ a call just to eliminate that potentiality.

Chad

I have been behind one of those a lot and yours should have plenty of shoulder popping power out of the hole with a standard crew. I believe that hull is slightly smaller than my euro but I also think you will find way better performance and be very happy once you get your 'bug' out.

My euro runs 4700 rpm to get the 44 mph barefoot speeds. Completely different motor I know but same era...

Edited July 12, 2010 by Shine

[chadwick02]

wow. Thanks for all the responses. The Mechanic felt the engine its self was running fine. Checked timing at idle and while we were under way out there. Engine is running clean and fine from what we can tell. Not rough, no sputtering or popping or backfiring. We did replace a spin-off canister style fuel filter and water separator. I did not seen any other fuel filter. There are glass windows where you can see the fuel level in each carb by the floats, there is always plenty of fuel in there even at wide open throttle.

Compression numbers seem to be fine too.

I'll check into the CFM of the carb, and try to find the ratio of the drive. Either way it sounds like thats not a big issue. Is there a chance this prop could have been modified somehow to change the pitch, so its not truely a 11.5x13?

That engine just seems healthy. I'm not a big carb guy so no way to tell for sure. But my buddie the mechanic feels that its running strong. Its a torquey monster, when we rev it in neutral it runs strong and hard. Rocks the whole boat side to side from from the rotational torque! Motor mounds are soild, thats for sure!!

Uggg there are no good inboard mechanics within 2 hours of here, so i'm determined to figure this one out with the help of you guys! Maybe I'll take the prop off and take it to a local prop shop to see if its been re-worked at all?

[WakeGirl]

....

I'll check into the CFM of the carb, and try to find the ratio of the drive. Either way it sounds like thats not a big issue. Is there a chance this prop could have been modified somehow to change the pitch, so its not truely a 11.5x13?

....

That's the part that I'm wondering about. Do you have access to a prop shop that would let you demo one? Say an Acme 13 x 12?

[jk13]

wow. Thanks for all the responses. The Mechanic felt the engine its self was running fine. Checked timing at idle and while we were under way out there. Engine is running clean and fine from what we can tell. Not rough, no sputtering or popping or backfiring. We did replace a spin-off canister style fuel filter and water separator. I did not seen any other fuel filter. There are glass windows where you can see the fuel level in each carb by the floats, there is always plenty of fuel in there even at wide open throttle.

Compression numbers seem to be fine too.

I'll check into the CFM of the carb, and try to find the ratio of the drive. Either way it sounds like thats not a big issue. Is there a chance this prop could have been modified somehow to change the pitch, so its not truely a 11.5x13?

That engine just seems healthy. I'm not a big carb guy so no way to tell for sure. But my buddie the mechanic feels that its running strong. Its a torquey monster, when we rev it in neutral it runs strong and hard. Rocks the whole boat side to side from from the rotational torque! Motor mounds are soild, thats for sure!!

Uggg there are no good inboard mechanics within 2 hours of here, so i'm determined to figure this one out with the help of you guys! Maybe I'll take the prop off and take it to a local prop shop to see if its been re-worked at all?

That's the part that I'm wondering about. Do you have access to a prop shop that would let you demo one? Say an Acme 13 x 12?

The other reason I suspect it is not the prop is the performance differences between having more or less people in the boat. Even if the prop were not still correct, the boat and motor package in an inboard should not be affected that much by small load changes.

When I bought my boat, the prop on it was no longer 13" diameter, it was worn down and repaired (4 times) all the way down to 11.5 inches. The boat performed the same on the test drive with two people in it as it did with four people in it and pulling a slalom skier of 200 lbs. Maybe a mile an hour or so top end, but that was it. It seems like this boat is greatly affected by load, probably too much, especially with one of the lowest pitch props recommended for these boat types.

One last thought, this is a wood stringer boat, isn't it? Do you have access to a salvage yard or truck stop scale to weigh this thing in case it's severely waterlogged?

Edited July 12, 2010 by jk13

[Sixball]

Evin if it is over carbed it should come up to speed it would be sluggish but not restricting.

I would also check for exhaust restrictions. Also if it has been sitting some valve springs may be down on pressure from being compressed for a long time. This can rob a bunch of power.

[Sixball]

This may be a good candidate for the can of Seafoam. I am not a big fan of chemical fixes but after sitting this long it may pay off.

Put the proper amount in the oil and the rest in the fuel tank.

Rings may be sticky carbon build up?

[WakeGirl]

The other reason I suspect it is not the prop is the performance differences between having more or less people in the boat. Even if the prop were not still correct, the boat and motor package in an inboard should not be affected that much by small load changes.

.....

You may be right if it's not badly overpropped, but if it's severely overpropped then I'm not sure about that. It would be "lugging" for lack of a better word, & the more of a load that you put on it the worse it will perform. I really think that it's worth confirming or disproving the prop as being the problem first.

My other thought is to wonder if it's a problem with the transmission. Could it be slipping at speed, & not able to hold power? You say that the boat sat for a couple of years. I'm not sure how that affects a boat's tranny, but it's pretty hard on a car tranny.

[99response]

Wouldn't a slipping tranny still allow the motor to spin full RPM's?

[Woodski]

Since you feel the engine is in pretty decent health, the next step would be to check the drive train components. I would certainly check the shaft bushings to ensure they are not creating a lot of resistance that would rob power potential. You will need to have the shaft wet or in the water to properly do this on a '92 vintage boat. While in the water spin the prop (by hand) with the transmission in neutral (engine off) to ensure at least that you can turn it over and it is not unreasonably tight. You might look over the running gear if on a trailer to ensure it looks straight and aligned. Also, check the drive shaft to ensure that it is straight (dial indicator), should be less than .004" variation. You might also disconnect the shaft at the transmission and spin the coupling to ensure it is not an issue. Once you do this, you can then also check the engine alignment to the shaft, using feeler gauges on the coupling connection (pretty much the same tolerance of less than .004").

I also agree with some of the other comments, low compression or bad valve springs may only show up under load and freewheeling the engine won't show those problems. You might also consider a leak down test, that will pinpoint an internal combustion chamber problem as opposed to a compression test. Demon carbs are a very good unit, generally considered a high performance add on. Good luck and hope this helps, my buddy had a Brendella and really liked it.

[martinarcher]

One thing I though of is a collapsed exhaust tube. The exhaust tubing has an inner liner that has been known to collapse and cause big time exhaust restriction that wouldn't be noticed without a load on the boat. I would get the boat up on plane and peek at the exhaust and verify there is a good, even stream of cooling water coming out both exhaust tubes. If one has significantly less water I would pull the exhaust hose and take a peek inside. You could also do this in the driveway with a fake-a-lake.

[martinarcher]

Wouldn't a slipping tranny still allow the motor to spin full RPM's?

Yep. Been there done that. You'll hear the motor wind up big time with no increase in speed a low speed. I would say his tranny isn't the issue since the RPM's seem normal for the speed specified.

[catcando]

Call propeller Engineering in Springfield to have it recond/inspected....

I picked up a buddies 1992 ski brendella supper comp to us as an “interm” boat until my new VTX shows up early august (hopefully!).

What's the buddy recall for RPMs?

I picked up a buddies 1992 ski brendella supper comp to us as an “interm” boat until my new VTX shows up early august (hopefully!). My 21LSV is due to be picked up by its new owners any day, and I didn’t want to be left with no boat in july!

Why not wait 3 weeks and just bum rides from James?

But either way you should buy my boom for the brendella......

[chadwick02]

alrighty. Went up to the lake last night. Did some boarding, had 4 people in the boat + a boarder, and it pulled the boarders out of the water decently well, i was surprised. With 3 people sitting across the back bench this thing is actually kinda fun to board behind, I was pleasantly suprised! Worked on some of the electronics a bit, got the radio working (farrr more important than the engine working to its full potential, of course) and one of the speedos working and calibrated to GPS even.

Dumped half a can of seafoam in the oil, almost all the rest into the gas tank (about 10 gallons in there i'd guess) and then pissed an ounce into the intake and let it stall and sit for 10 minutes or so. Started it up and let it smoke like crazy!!

Pulled the prop off at the end of the day. Wow that thing was a PITA to get off!! My guess is that its been on there for a while. No cotter pin at the end of the shaft either... I'll drop it off at a local prop shop today and see what they think. Its a little hoboken shop up here in the sticks, but i'm sure they must know what they are doing... If not then i guess I can go to propeller engineering in sprigfield as jason recommend, but its a hike!

Forgot to look at the CFM on the carb, i'll check it out tonight

I dont think its waterlogged. It just moving it around by hand at the lift and dock, and the way it handles at speed, it seems fairly light, waayyy more nimble than my LSV!! We do have a truck scale at work, so I can do that, but i'd rather not tow it here, i dont think weight is an issue.

Jason - I committed to this thing a few weeks ago when i was not sure of timing.... Didnt know when the people were going to pick my boat up, didnt know when I'll have the new one or if it might get held up at the factory for some odd reason(still wont believe it till i have it!!), and i just didnt want to be left stranded, ya know? If it was only going to be a week or two for sure then i wouldn't have gotten involved, but any more than that and I'd go crazy. The season's too short here to be left without a boat in mind july.

I also tried unplugging one plug at a time while underway at about 2000rpm's to see if there was a change (thinking that maybe one wasnt firing correctly). I only got through two. The engine ran like complete crap when I pulled the wire off the plug, and, more importantly i got sick and tired of getting shocked every time. That MSD system sure works FANTASTIC Is there a better way to make sure it is firing on all 8? Maybe I'll try again with gloves?

Is there any easy way to check for exhaust restrictions? Can i pull the hoses off the manifolds and just let them dump hot water into the boat? I'll sheild the engine some how. And wear ear muffs. Not ideal, I know, but for a quick burst around the lake it cant be that bad an idea?

Edited July 14, 2010 by chadwick02

[Ndawg12]

FYI - If you seafoamed the oil and intake you need to get that crap out. Change your oil and clean/replace your plugs.

[chadwick02]

just got back from the prop shop. Prop checks out 100% ok, in great shape and the pitch and size are as marked. Sooo where to go from here? I have an inclination to buy a less pitched prop and see if that can get me into higher RPM's. I'm sure it will, but I dont think it will actually gain me any more power, or fix what ever the issue is with the engine (if there actually is a problem?).

I also spun the shaft and prop out of the water last night with my hand. spins free and easy, its not bound up.

Any pointers on how to check out the exhaust system? Can I do what I mentioned above, pull the hoses off the manifold and see if it suddenly has more power?

Edited July 14, 2010 by chadwick02

[99response]

Just pull the hoses off and look for obstructions, a collapsed tube would normally be near high heat areas eg right after the manifold and before the mufflers.

So how about you hurry up and fix that thing so you can sell it to me once you get your VTX?

I would not buy a new prop, should be the correct prop for that boat with a 1:1 transmission.

-Chris

[bigD]

The first inboard i was in was a 90s brendella Teal and Pink ! that thing would pull your arms out if you hit it hard.

I'd just do a good tune up and go from there, plugs cap rotor, pull the bowls on that sweet carb pull and clean the main jets and there passages and all the bleed airs with some carb cleaner and make sure the electric choke is working correctly too, other then that I think everyone already has most things covered.

I'll bet you'll make a few bucks of that sucker when you get her running good.

Good luck.