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Set up of Radar Theory - Or is it just me.


MalibuWantToBe

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Looking for setup advice/suggestions. I picked up a Radar Theory with Venom double boots end of last season. I was previously using a very old 66 Connelly fiberglass ski with a RTP. I'm skiing off my VTX at 28 mph.

I have only ridden on the new ski twice, and both rides have been very uncomfortable. I'm looking to see if anyone has any advice on why this might be. I get up fine, but then can't make a smooth cut and in general don't feel very comfortable on it. I also find that it is tiring me out quickly, where with the old ski I could cut back and forth (rec skier) many times a set and with this ski I'm only getting 8 or so cuts before I'm exhausted.

I plan on giving it a little more time as I will be up for a week next week and plan to get multiple rides in. But if it doesn't seem to get better does anyone have any tweaks they would recommend? Any opinions on if it is the double boot versus RTP, the stabilzer fins (old ski didn't have those) or me :) ?

Thanks in advance.

Paul

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Hey Paul,

A little more info would be helpful. What is your weight, and what is the length of the ski (65,67, or 69)? The Theory doesn't have much adjustment in the fin block. At that speed, the wings/stabilizer fins aren't doing much. You might want to lightly etch where they are (if you don't have a measuring gauge...usually they should be set somewhere between 6 to 8 degrees) and remove them.

The mounting position of the bindings might be something to look at. Once the length of the ski is known, there generally will be a recommended distance (ie. starting point), to measure from the rear tip of the ski to the rear of the front binding.

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Hey Paul,

A little more info would be helpful. What is your weight, and what is the length of the ski (65,67, or 69)? The Theory doesn't have much adjustment in the fin block. At that speed, the wings/stabilizer fins aren't doing much. You might want to lightly etch where they are (if you don't have a measuring gauge...usually they should be set somewhere between 6 to 8 degrees) and remove them.

The mounting position of the bindings might be something to look at. Once the length of the ski is known, there generally will be a recommended distance (ie. starting point), to measure from the rear tip of the ski to the rear of the front binding.

I'm 5-9 and 180, the length is a 67.

Do you think increasing my speed would help? I have skied near 31 and felt comfortable, I slowed it down as we normally have waves.

Thanks again.

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Video would really help.

Plus1.gif That is the right length ski. It should ride nice, even at 28mph...but you might trying bumping it to 30. If you're getting unusually tired on it, a guess is you're fighting the pull of the boat and riding on the tail. Try focusing on "an athletic stance" w/ more equal weight distribution on your feet. A couple thoughts...are the bindings mounted in the center hole? Have someone from the boat watch you ski and tell where the water is breaking under the ski...should be under your front foot. I would also remove the stabilizer wings to see if any difference. They don't do much until you get into shorter line lengths, unless it is incorrectly set at a radical angle.

You could also check to see if your old rear toe plate will mount on the Radar....else pick one up somewhere and try it out. Adjusting from a toe plate to rear boot is not an easy transition for many.

Keep us posted.

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martinarcher

Might be a good spot to ask a quick ski question. I've got a Triumph with double Venom boots. After reading your post Dave, it sounds like I might be skiing with too much weight on my rear foot. When I round the turns, I get a ton of spray in my face as I cut back toward the wake. It seems the spray comes off the bottom of the ski and not as much from the side. Does this sound like a weight/stance problem?

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Martin,

Disclaimer....I'm not sure my skiing puts me at a point where I'm qualified to give anyone advice or analysis. I'm constantly struggling to get weight off my back foot (shedding old school habits). While cutting, more weight should actually be on the front foot. As I was told at a recent clinic...."you paid for the whole ski, you might as well use it". If I had to guess, it sounds more like it could be a combination of too much weight on your rear foot and not getting the ski on edge (which will send the spray outward).

Not knowing where you are at w/ skiing, I will say that the techniques and trends in the sport have changed alot over the last 25 years. If you are like me and grew up skiing behind an i/o or outboard, you probably ingrained bad habits of leaning back too far (to stay afloat while cutting). Nowadays, trying to outmuscle a 350 hp inboard is the ultimate exercise in futility. Accepting the pull of the boat, proper technique & body position, and letting design of the ski do much of the work.... are where it is at ...all allowing you to ski in a much more efficient manner (which lessens your dependence on the ibuprofen bottle).

If serious about improving, a host of pro skiers offer video analysis. Much like golf, proper coaching is usually a better investment then tinkering w/ equipment. As it is so easy to have someone film you w/ a flip camera, etc, you can email video to pros for the expert analysis you may need. Check out proskicoach.com or here.. h2osmosis video coaching

Also, you might want to watch Seth Stisher's "Training Videos" on this page...particularly the "Whips Drill"....Video clips . Notice the "athletic stance", soft knees, and where the water is breaking under the ski.

Edited by davemac
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Video would really help. Could be the rough water, could be you are fighting the ski since you are not used to it. Both = making you tire quicker.

It sounds like your speed is on the low side. I am betting your ski is riding very deep. also if you can get your speed up it will improve your boats wake.

Davemac's points are all on the money it is hard to give solid advice on skiing without seeing the skier.

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Might be a good spot to ask a quick ski question. I've got a Triumph with double Venom boots. After reading your post Dave, it sounds like I might be skiing with too much weight on my rear foot. When I round the turns, I get a ton of spray in my face as I cut back toward the wake. It seems the spray comes off the bottom of the ski and not as much from the side. Does this sound like a weight/stance problem?

I am betting you are standing over the top of your ski and do have to much weight over the back.

Try to carry more speed into the turn and pull your ski out and around. You are likely not completing your turn.

As Dave said I am not the best to be giving ins ructions. I am better than a few and not as good as many. But I do love to ski.......

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I think you just need to get used to a different ski. That "very old" Connelly probably has lots of flex by now. Did you try skiing other skis recently. I did. An HO and a Obrien. a different brand ski is a totally different animal. I skied on both for a couple days. They both just felt wrong compared to my Connelly.

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Agreed, thanks for all the info. I will try to get a tape of myself, maybe later in the week after I try out a few of these tips. The kids are just going to crack up though if I ask them to video me.

Thanks again.

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One dead giveaway that you have too much weight on your back foot is to gauge how tired your back leg is getting versus your front. If your back leg is tiring out and your front isn't that would be a good indication you're too back foot heavy. Moving bindings forward can help with that but ultimately you need to learn to get at least 40% or more of your weight on your front foot. If you have trouble getting to that you probably do need to move the bindings forward. The ususal coaching saying is "stand up on the ski" or "ski proud". Standing up more (the athletic stance Davemac alluded to earlier) will get your hips farther forward, get the hunched over feeling out of your back, and put your center of mass more over the center of the ski. Stand up, soft slight knee flex, arms straight and relaxed BUT with your elbows in tight on your hips (which will put the handle lower giving you way better leverage). This is the basic power position we all strive for, think in those terms and it should begin to make things easier for you.

The Theory should be fine at 28 mph at your size, weight etc. I also have a 67" Theory and I ride it at 30 mph, I'm 6'3" 200 lbs so you should be fine. If I were guessing it sounds like a technique issue. Get some coaching from a better skier who has had some coaching themselves, think about the power position thing above, and it should start getting easier.

Ed

Edited by ed obermeier
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I would up your speed to the 30 to 32 mph. When I first start riding the Theory, I was exhausted after about eight turns also. Just keep riding it your strength will catch up. I ride with equal weight on both feet and roll my weight to the back foot through the turn. Then equal my weight to both feet as I approach the wake and on through the wake. I'm no pro but this works for me.

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I hate to point of the obvious, but skiing 28mph behind a Wakesetter VTX could be part of the problem. That's got to have a huge wake at 28mph.

Nonetheless it can be done. Many of the posts have I believe hit it on the head with your weight being too far back. I would highly suggest you not mess with the fin and/or boot location. The factory settings on those ski's are designed for the average skier. Once your start moving that stuff around without professional advice you will never have the same ski again.

Start with your form. Even weight distribution on the balls of both feet at all times, especially the turns. Keeping your hips forward is key. The best way to do this is to imagine you have to take a real bad crap but there it no toilet in sight. Pinching your bum cheeks together the whole time you are skiing will force your hips forward. Lastly, always be on edge. These newer ski's do not like to ride flat and will be very squirrely if ridden that way. Role from one edge to the other only in the preturn and always keep it on edge, especially behind the boat. Don't let up at the first wake, cross behind the boat, then cut hard again before the turn.

It's that easy :biggrin:

Have fun!

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The best way to do this is to imagine you have to take a real bad crap but there it no toilet in sight. It's that easy Biggrin.gif

Now thats a gem....I can't wait to bring this thought with me next time I'm on the water!! Blowup.gif

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I would up your speed to the 30 to 32 mph. When I first start riding the Theory, I was exhausted after about eight turns also. Just keep riding it your strength will catch up. I ride with equal weight on both feet and roll my weight to the back foot through the turn. Then equal my weight to both feet as I approach the wake and on through the wake. I'm no pro but this works for me.

I respectfully disagree with this. I work with LOTS of INT skiers who are in the 26 - 30 mph range skiing Theorys and Triumphs. The speed is not the problem. Ski a speed you're comfortable with and work on technique FIRST, then up the speed once your technique is improving. Poor technique + too much speed = hospital bills. Been there...

All skis turn best with equal weight distribution on the ski. Stomping down on the back of the ski to make it turn defeats what the ski is designed for and makes for a worse less controlable turn, not a better one. More ski in the water engages more of the skis edge making the ski turn more naturally with way less effort, which is what any performance ski is designed to do. Not picking on you CumminsBu just trying to get correct information out.

Ed

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Love this thread and I just have to comment about the back foot issue. I have had the Theory for two seasons now and absolutely love it. I took the back binding off completely and moved the front boot back two two holes and then adjusted the fin and stabilizer so that the tip rode just a bit higher in the water and so that I could initiate my turns more aggressively. Oh, I forgot to mention that I only have one leg. So the point is that you really don't even need weight on your back foot to ski well. Just a well balanced stance with your hips forward on initiation. However, I would not recommend this binding set up for anyone who doesn't have two good legs. Just leave it at factory specs. I do get pretty tired after two sets but that is just me.

Since I am skiing behind a v drive I tend to ski at 32mph with the rope at 60' but these things are relative to your wake and boat load which can vary on any given day. Just find the sweet spot in the wake and it gives you one less thing to worry about as you rip across it. Crossing a double dip wake can add to fatigue and increase your chances of doing what my son calls the starfish spin.

post-6392-127749584421_thumb.jpg

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I respectfully disagree with this. I work with LOTS of INT skiers who are in the 26 - 30 mph range skiing Theorys and Triumphs. The speed is not the problem. Ski a speed you're comfortable with and work on technique FIRST, then up the speed once your technique is improving. Poor technique + too much speed = hospital bills. Been there...

All skis turn best with equal weight distribution on the ski. Stomping down on the back of the ski to make it turn defeats what the ski is designed for and makes for a worse less controlable turn, not a better one. More ski in the water engages more of the skis edge making the ski turn more naturally with way less effort, which is what any performance ski is designed to do. Not picking on you CumminsBu just trying to get correct information out.

Ed

I wouldn't say, I stomp on the back of the ski, to make it turn. Just a smooth roll maybe 10% more weight to the back foot after the preturn.

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Awest...awesome picture!! That is most impressive.

Regarding weight distribution, here is a link to a thread from another site that might give some more "food for thought". As someone points out, it is not solely how much weight is on each foot, but how balanced your weight is over the ski.

Cummings....if what you are doing is working for you and you are having fun doing it, that is all that matters. EZ Ed's points are the consensus (I currently am doing everything I can to try get more weight on the front of the ski...to use more of it when carving).

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Hopefully tomorrow I will get my first run in with all the new advice. From the first poster who said my weight was too far back, I realized that along with getting used to the ski is probably the problem. I know I always skied back foot heavy, so that's where I will start.

Thanks again.

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Good Luck, Paul. Keep us posted...(especially if you find some tricks that help you transition more of your weight forward). My unsolicited advice is to take it easy out there, and spend time getting comfortable on the ski....as tough as it is to overcome the urge to ski aggressively. Keep knees soft (or ankles flexed) and enjoy the ride. Try to be aware of where the water is breaking under the ski . A second eye watching is very helpful. When I think I have 80% of my weight on front foot, the reality is it is only about 50%.

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Well, didn't get out on Saturday as it was too choppy. Sunday, 6 tries couldn't get up, the lake was flat, but the sun was setting and the Lake Patrol had pulled up 200 yards away. I'm sure I had more time, but didn't want to chance it. Monday was the day. Nice enough water and I said I just don't care. This time I popped up. Kept the weight forward (yes, I'm sure I skied with the weight on my back foot.) I was able to comfortably cut back and forth and after a few cuts I felt back to my old self. I have been trying to keep the weight forward, but it takes some getting used to. Each day it is feeling better and better. Still having issues getting up, but I think it is the board shorts I'm wearing. Feels like a drag suit when I'm trying to get up. Looking forward to getting out tomorrow for an early run, hoping the lake will be flat. Figure it might be the last good water I see for the weekend.

No pictures of me, but my 10yr old is ripping it up. Any suggestions on what to tell her to work on. She wants to spray big and jump big, but I would rather see her work towards being a course skier.

DSC00252.jpg

DSC00254.jpg

Although big sprays and big jumps are fun.

DSC00286.jpg

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Terrific pictures of your daughter. If she wants to cut harder and get a bigger spray you might consider shortening up that rope. That wake looks huge at the point she is crossing. It is hard to transition from a deep cut to a big wake without launching big time.

As far as your not getting up do to your board shorts there are all kinds of inappropriate suggestions that I will refrain from making.

There are lots of threads that talk about proper starting technique but there is one suggestion I can make here that helps a lot of the skiers that I help teach. This goes back to that rear foot issue again. I can not tell you how many times I see people getting dragged endlessly through the water plowing through it like Moses parting the Red Sea only to give up and let go. Get that ski up on plane as quickly as possible by tucking your back foot up under your butt before you start and press down hard on your front as you go up. Really put some effort into it and don't just wait for the boat to pull you up.

Since I do not have a back foot I don't have any weight back on the ski and people are amazed at how freaking fast I pop out of the water. Then I mess with my board shorts.

Hope the weather is better and that you get a chance to go out and practice this weekend

Cheers

AW

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