Any point in trying to surf behind my '98 Sunsetter?

[hybridpower]

Hey Guys, I'm trying to decide if it's worth buying a few more bagss (I have two 540# bags that I usually put on either side of the engine when wakeboarding) and trying to get a reasonable surf wake from my '98 Sunsetter. I do have the wedge, but I don't know how much that really helps.

From some of the other posts I've seen, it looks like people are filling their older boats (like mine w/ no factory ballast) with lead, etc. I'm concerned about going that route as the likes I'm usually on get pretty rough.

So here's the thing, I have several wakeboards, wakeskates, etc, and love all that, but I'd really like to try wakesurfing; I'm just worried that I'll put money into a wakesurf board, and be dissapointed, or worse not be able to ride at all due to the small wake.

What do you guys think?

[hybridpower]

Sorry, '98 Sunsetter LX, w/ Wedge.

[k_b_stephens]

Of course! I learned how to surf behind Sunsetter.

[JasonK]

If we can have fun doing "it" on my boat, you can too. No need to use lead, bad idea.

[Wakeboarddude]

We surf behind my '88 Sunsetter. Maybe not the hugest surf wake, but with some ballast, good friends, and a little playing around its a hoot! Itchin to go for my first surf of the year tonight!

[dhcomp]

Definitely!

We used to surf my 98 Mastercraft Prostar 190.

You just have to be careful if it gets rough.

Really, you don't need much more than your 2 sacs.

A small 2-300 up front would be good.

Put one sac where the bakc seat is, all the way into the surf side corner. Lay 2nd sac along surf side of engine box.

Distribute people, mostly towards the front. Lots of ppl don't move weight far enough forward. This will help lengthen the surf pocket.

Biggest challenge will be speed. Perfect pass?

Start at 9.8 mph, adjust accordingly.

DO NOT use a ski handle for this. I frown on even the wakesurf handles....dragged someone under after i wrapped around their ankle last year.

Get a dockline you don't use, and put a series of figure 8 knots in it towards the end.

Also, NEVER toss the rope back to the surfer when they drop out. Too much increased risk that they fall and get caught.

Also, i recommend against letting the rope just drag in the water when teh surfer isn't using it. Have an observer pull it in.

Good luck!

[Jimmypooh]

DO NOT use a ski handle for this. I frown on even the wakesurf handles....dragged someone under after i wrapped around their ankle last year.

Also, NEVER toss the rope back to the surfer when they drop out. Too much increased risk that they fall and get caught.

Also, i recommend against letting the rope just drag in the water when teh surfer isn't using it. Have an observer pull it in.

for the saftey stuff. Its really important.

[dhcomp]

And also, get comfortable driving this setup. When the surfer falls, bring boat to neutral, let roller pass you, then turn around. Way too easy to swamp when that loaded going through your own wave. I always turn away from the surf side, i think. That way, the high side hits the waves, if you go back through.

If you aren't comfortable driving this loaded, remove some weight. Make sure your surfer uses his board to signal his position to other boats (hold up in air), cause when you're this loaded, its hard to get back fast to "protect" your rider.

Also, consider not running in narrow water ways like this. Making a 3 point turn with an overloaded boat isn't fun.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Ya know I have had quite a bit of fun surfing while holding the rope, so even if you don't make a big enough wave to go ropeless you can have a lot of fun. Not exactly the way it is supposed to be done but it is still fun.

I say go for it....your only investment to start would be a WS board and a WS rope.

BTW---My daughter braided a WS rope out of some old ski rope we had lying around and it is every bit as good as the one we bought, in fact it is probably good enough to be sold......just an FYI.

[JDubya]

for the saftey stuff. Its really important.

2 years ago my wife went down and the rope got her around the neck while surfing on our uncles boat...that was way scarry! Luckily just a bad rope burn but that got our attention and now we have someone ready to pull in the rope instaead of have the surfer chunk it in.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Ramman17

[dhcomp]

BTW---My daughter braided a WS rope out of some old ski rope we had lying around and it is every bit as good as the one we bought, in fact it is probably good enough to be sold......just an FYI.

I make mine. I used a hollow braid slalom rope, and spliced 2 more strands through it. Then knotted it appropriately. Awesome if you do it right, cause the slalom loops from 28 to 41 off give you small adjustments in length.

[martinarcher]

And also, get comfortable driving this setup. When the surfer falls, bring boat to neutral, let roller pass you, then turn around. Way too easy to swamp when that loaded going through your own wave. I always turn away from the surf side, i think. That way, the high side hits the waves, if you go back through.

If you aren't comfortable driving this loaded, remove some weight. Make sure your surfer uses his board to signal his position to other boats (hold up in air), cause when you're this loaded, its hard to get back fast to "protect" your rider.

Also, consider not running in narrow water ways like this. Making a 3 point turn with an overloaded boat isn't fun.

^^ That there is good advice......

[hybridpower]

Thanks for all the advise guys, I'm going to give it a try.

I just bought a used liquid force venture off craigslist after reading your posts. I know it's not a favorite board around here, but I only paid $50 for it, so I figured I'd be hard pressed to go wrong!

Thanks again for everyone's contributions; I'll let you know how it goes.

Have a great weekend!

[nevertwobig]

I have a 97 sunsetter and love the surf wake! It took alot to figure out the best set-up. I run the wedge, 400 between back seat and motor, 1100 port side as far back as possible, 400 ski locker, and 260 front walkway. Also 2-3 people in the portside corner, and 1 in the spotter seat. I run 9.3-9.5 on the PP. The wake is great and can run all day without the handle. The water is barely rolling over the back corner.

[hybridpower]

Thanks nevertobig, looks like I may need more weight. How does the front of the boat sit with that much in it? The back end sitting low I can handle, but I'm worried about taking water over the front. I'm in Phoenix, and it's often hard to find any water without 2-3 foot rollers on it by mid saturday afternoon.

[skicrave]

If you evenly weight the boat front-to-rear then the bow won't be too low. It will still require some diligence from the driver to keep the bow up crossing rollers, but it's not a huge problem.

[Awest]

I have a 98 Sunsetter VLX and we surf behind it all the time. 750 starboard side, 400 port, 400 center locker, 1000 bow sac and the wedge down. This gives me a nice 4 foot wave that my son can do 360s on all day. Try to run in water at least 10 feet deep and if you want a slightly bigger wave you can turn in a 300' diameter 360 degree circle. I have all sacs but the bow automated to fill and drain. 9.8 mph seems to be the ideal speed for me. With the boat this loaded sometimes we have someone run up to the bow for a few seconds till the boat gets on plane. As far as water over the bow it will happen from time to time. No matter how careful I am it usually happens once a summer due to negligence on my part or an unavoidable wave from another boat. Good luck and have fun.

[WakesetterE]

I have a 2000 Escape wakesetter. I believe its the same hull as your Sunsetter, with just a tower and a center ballast bag added. It was hell getting a decent surf wake. I have a 1100 fat sac in the starboard locker, 400 on the seats behind the driver, and 750 in the bow. Thats in addition to the factory center bag (500?) and deploying the wedge. I'm not sure how other do it with less weight, but I added each fat sac sequentially, and I'm just now getting decent push from the wake. Speed is very important, it seems I was going too fast as my speedo starts at 10 mph, and about 9.5 is a good speed. Check this out to see my daughter surfing and the associated wave with the set up decribed. I think perfect pass would be a great improvement as you could adjust your speed very accuratly to determine the perfect boat speed for your set up. I still feel I'm about 750 short of having enough weight.

Wanna see my daughter surf and the wake as decribed above, go to:

http://qik.com/video/CDC8C5AF82734A14B7D223CF2F0F0E7E

If the nose of you boat is way up, there wont be much push in your wave.

Cole

[dhcomp]

I have a 2000 Escape wakesetter. I believe its the same hull as your Sunsetter, with just a tower and a center ballast bag added. It was hell getting a decent surf wake. I have a 1100 fat sac in the starboard locker, 400 on the seats behind the driver, and 750 in the bow. Thats in addition to the factory center bag (500?) and deploying the wedge. I'm not sure how other do it with less weight, but I added each fat sac sequentially, and I'm just now getting decent push from the wake. Speed is very important, it seems I was going too fast as my speedo starts at 10 mph, and about 9.5 is a good speed. Check this out to see my daughter surfing and the associated wave with the set up decribed. I think perfect pass would be a great improvement as you could adjust your speed very accuratly to determine the perfect boat speed for your set up. I still feel I'm about 750 short of having enough weight.

Wanna see my daughter surf and the wake as decribed above, go to:

http://qik.com/video/CDC8C5AF82734A14B7D223CF2F0F0E7E

If the nose of you boat is way up, there wont be much push in your wave.

Cole

Sounds like you have a speed and or technique issue. Should be MORE than enough weight.

Hell, i could surf my old Prostar 190 with about 600lbs in it.

Surf the current response w/ just the wedge, and no people....although it isn't pleasant, definitely enough to stay in the pocket w/o the rope. How big is your board?

[hybridpower]

I actually surfed for the first time yesterday behind a new response, all we had was about 250#'s of weight on the corner, and the wedge down. Two guys sat on the back as well. I had enough push to toss the rope back and ride.

I feel optomistic about getting enough of a wake with the sunsetter seeing everyone else's setup. I did pick up anouther 1000# bag, and will combine that with the wedge and the two 540's.

I'll let you know how it goes!

[CTSunsetter]

All great posts about safety. We have one of those surf ropes with no handle now too. I'd add that make sure the rider pays attention to where the board is when they fall and watch (or cover) their head. This video was shot of the very first time we surfed behind our Sunsetter. My buddy had surfed behind other boats a few times in the past, it was Mrs. CT's first time. This was only people ballast and the wedge down.Link to video on Vimeo

[Jimmypooh]

I have a 2000 Escape wakesetter. I believe its the same hull as your Sunsetter, with just a tower and a center ballast bag added. It was hell getting a decent surf wake. I have a 1100 fat sac in the starboard locker, 400 on the seats behind the driver, and 750 in the bow. Thats in addition to the factory center bag (500?) and deploying the wedge. I'm not sure how other do it with less weight, but I added each fat sac sequentially, and I'm just now getting decent push from the wake. Speed is very important, it seems I was going too fast as my speedo starts at 10 mph, and about 9.5 is a good speed. Check this out to see my daughter surfing and the associated wave with the set up decribed. I think perfect pass would be a great improvement as you could adjust your speed very accuratly to determine the perfect boat speed for your set up. I still feel I'm about 750 short of having enough weight.

Wanna see my daughter surf and the wake as decribed above, go to:

http://qik.com/video...7D223CF2F0F0E7E

If the nose of you boat is way up, there wont be much push in your wave.

Cole

I have to disagree. We have found that getting your nose up is the best push. Also you might need to head to deeper water. We've found that 7 feet is the minimum but over 10 is ideal.

[hybridpower]

Ok, so I've got the 1200# bag I can put in the way back (will take the seat out), and then will put a 540# on the port side back corner. I can put the other 540# in the ski locker to keep the front down.

Should I run the wedge? Does this sound like an ok setup for starting out, or would you put the bags in the boat differently?

I also started a post about driving (steering) with all the ballast in the boat, as I'm unsure how to do it correctly.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far.

[TrickyNicky]

Ok, so I've got the 1200# bag I can put in the way back (will take the seat out), and then will put a 540# on the port side back corner. I can put the other 540# in the ski locker to keep the front down.

Should I run the wedge? Does this sound like an ok setup for starting out, or would you put the bags in the boat differently?

I also started a post about driving (steering) with all the ballast in the boat, as I'm unsure how to do it correctly.

Thanks for all the feedback thus far.

I have not been in your boat or a similar one but my advice to you and anyone else on this forum running with some ridiculous ammounts of weight and still struggling. When you add weight put it to the SIDE. The more you sink one side of the boat and raise the other the better the wave your going to get. If you can't get at least a ridable surf wave with just ONE 1200 lbs sack you have to be doing something wrong. Keep it all to the side as much as possible. The only exception to this could be when you put weight in the bow/ski locker to keep the bow down a 'bit' but if you can get away with it even a sac on only one side of the bow will help matters.

[85 Barefoot]

I have a 2000 Escape wakesetter. I believe its the same hull as your Sunsetter, with just a tower and a center ballast bag added. It was hell getting a decent surf wake. I have a 1100 fat sac in the starboard locker, 400 on the seats behind the driver, and 750 in the bow. Thats in addition to the factory center bag (500?) and deploying the wedge. I'm not sure how other do it with less weight, but I added each fat sac sequentially, and I'm just now getting decent push from the wake. Speed is very important, it seems I was going too fast as my speedo starts at 10 mph, and about 9.5 is a good speed. Check this out to see my daughter surfing and the associated wave with the set up decribed. I think perfect pass would be a great improvement as you could adjust your speed very accuratly to determine the perfect boat speed for your set up. I still feel I'm about 750 short of having enough weight.

Wanna see my daughter surf and the wake as decribed above, go to:

http://qik.com/video/CDC8C5AF82734A14B7D223CF2F0F0E7E

If the nose of you boat is way up, there wont be much push in your wave.

Cole

What's wrong with that wake?

A 23 foot vdrive is not the same hull as on a 1998 sunsetter by the way.