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Chaabo

2010 BU with Zero Off on a river with current

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Chaabo

Hi guys,

we got a problem with the setup of our 2010 Response.

The boat is equipped with Zero Off, it also has the built in Malibu Cruise Control though.

First of all I have to say that when we took delivery of the boat I was SHOCKED that Malibu drilled holes in front of the windshield to fed the cables of the GPS pickups through the deck. Why isn't it possible just to place these damn pickups inside the windshield or underneath the deck? Whenever someone steps onto the (closed) bow these pickups are in the way. Cleaning has to be around these things and the looks... :( I'm really really disapointed with that solution!!!

Okay, but now the problem...

We use the boat on a river with a moderate current. The Speedo (and the Malibu Cruise Control) seems to be connected with the ZO, not the paddlewheel. The reading of the speedo is NEVER accurate as it shows the speed over ground not the speed through the water. But the latter is the speed that matters for us. It matters when you free ski, it matters when you ski the course, it matters when you wakeboard.

Our 2006 Response just had the Paddlewheel + the standard Malibu Cruise Control.

That worked perfect for us! Now with the Zero Off option the speed gauge(s), the Malibu Cruise Control and of course the ZO itself are connected with the GPS NOT the paddlewheel. For us a disaster! Even more as we have 3 solid bridges that we have to pass underneath with the boat. Whenever you drive underneath a bridge, the GPS signal gets lost and the ZO (the std Cruise Control as well) accellerates like crazy.

Is there a solution to connect at least the in-dash-speedo and the Malibu Cruise Control to the paddlewheel (and NOT the GPS readings off the ZO) to have at least one accurate option to use that Respose as intended, as a TOWboat?

Your help is very much appreciated!

I talked to the guys of ZO about my problem and they said that the ZO has a river mode built in.

I was not able to locate or enable it though. But even that mode just adds/substracts a user-set current from the set speed baseline by the touch of a button. The speedo reading will still be wrong!

I wish I stayed with the std cruise control and the non-GPS option which was perfect for us. :(

David

Edited by Chaabo

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Toby

Hi Chaabo

I am a little confused as to why you would want to go off the paddlewheel now that you have ZO... I had no idea that malibu cruise was getting speed off the ZO signal now.. interesting. Also wouldnt have a clue how to put it back on paddlewheel.

Malibu cruise is a dog of a system compared to ZO. What version ZO is in your boat? Im guessing vQ? Once you figure out the current option, I think you will find it much better than malibu cruise.

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Chaabo

Hi Chaabo

I am a little confused as to why you would want to go off the paddlewheel now that you have ZO... I had no idea that malibu cruise was getting speed off the ZO signal now.. interesting. Also wouldnt have a clue how to put it back on paddlewheel.

Malibu cruise is a dog of a system compared to ZO. What version ZO is in your boat? Im guessing vQ? Once you figure out the current option, I think you will find it much better than malibu cruise.

Hi Toby,

paddlewheel is the way to go on a river.

As I tried to explain...

When we run the course downstream the speed over water is lower than the GPS reading.

When we run the course upstream the speed over water is higher than the GPS reading.

If the skier wants to get pulled through the course with let's say 34mph it's as complicated as can be with the GPS option.

- I have to determine the speed of the current first (variies from day to day)

- Then I have to enable ZO's river mode

- Than I have to add that data to the ZO

- Then I have to determine if we start down- or upstream

- Then I have to add or subtract the current from the set baseline speed

- After each pass I have to change between up- & downstream by touching the set-button.

What a HASSLE !!!

With the paddlewheel based std Cruise Control it was no problem.

Set the desired speed and you are ready to go.

Plus it bothers me that the speedo reading is always inaccurate (+/- the current).

For example...

If I go downstream my Response gets 75km/h @ 5100RPM. If I go upstream it gets 71km/h @ 5100RPM.

Edited by Chaabo

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davemac

fyi...noticed this on the PP website FAQ section.....

Q. We ride in a river with significant current, is GPS the right way to go?

  1. GPS is based on speed over ground, so if you have strong currents you may wish to stay with the paddle wheel. Running Star Gazer in slow currents may require a tweak of the set speed to adjust for the current.

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Toby

I understand what your saying, but in a slalom course situation it gets difficult when currents are involved... Because a course is 259m long, if you want accurate times you would need to use ZO with the current adjust. Yes, bu cruise wont give you times but as you say its measuring water speed, where timing a pass through the course is not..

Anyway, hope you figure it out.

BTW, at moomba we have the same problem with going under a bridge before the course. The safest thing to do is disengage it to just below the set speed, then obviously redump it when you get signal back.

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Chaabo

It's the RevQ 3-Event version.

River mode is impossible to find.

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Chaabo

Update

Got an e-mail from ZO regarding the river mode.

"...River Mode for Zero Off is actually only exclusive on Nautique boats and not Malibu..."

Now I'm a bit galled with the ZO support! :mad:

I asked for exactly that feature in a MALIBU before we ordered the ZO option with our 2010 Response back in Sept 09.

The answer back then was simply wrong, at least for all other boats except Nautiques...

"... A River mode has been added which can be enabled via the MENU/SET submenu. This is intended to address trick/wakeboard concerns about handling river currents. When River Mode is enabled, an estimate of the speed of the current can be entered, and the driver can then add or subtract this speed offset from the baseline speed setpoint (add when riding with the current, subtract while riding against the current) while making his turn with a single push on the SEL button (hold SEL for trick, tap SEL for wakeboard). The intent is to allow the driver a simple single adjustment means of maintaining constant speed over the water with or against currents. This function only operates from the tournament screen where the two additional selectable parameters (river current speed and an UpRiver/DNRiver icon) show up only when this option is enabled..."

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davemac

Hey Toby,

Just curious...do you happen to know what they were using for speed control at Moomba? With the water running as fast as it was after that record breaking storm, I would assume ZO would have been ineffective.

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Woodski

David,

Since you talked with ZO prior to your purchase and was told the system had a river mode, as a customer you should certainly be delivered what you were told. You should have some leverage based on infomation provided to you to be provided something closer to what you requested. I would contact both your Malibu and ZO dealers and determine what steps can be taken to install the river mode option in to your system. That won't by the sounds of it, provide you with the system of your choice, one that determines the boats speed relative to the water which is what you are after. Another thought, see if you can procure the software/parts that Malibu Cruise uses for a non ZO equipped boat or an Malibu Cruise only equipped boat. Might have to be a previous year version that does use the paddlewheel if the 2010 version is GPS only. Life has not been the same since the demise of Airguide, those pitot tube speedos certainly were golden and to be honest, even the current paddlewheel driven speedos are not as accurate as the old Airguides.

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Hydrofoil

River mode can be added for a Malibu if you send the ZO unit(and a service fee $$) back to ZO for a factory mod.

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85 Barefoot

can ppass "classic" be run in a tbw boat and use paddlewheel (not stargazer's "wannabe classic" using classic settings? If so, that's the easiest I would think. Have dealer swap your speed control out.

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Chaabo

River mode can be added for a Malibu if you send the ZO unit(and a service fee $$) back to ZO for a factory mod.

Yeah, that's what ZO offered.

I got three problems with that solution though.

/1 We are in the middle of our (short) season. I really can't afford to rip the gauge out and leave the boat w/o it for weeks. (At our ski school we use it almost every day.)

/2 We already invested around 1.3k $ for the ZO option. The upgrade fee (including all the shipping costs) would be another couple of 100s $$.

/3 Prior to my order I asked ZO about the river mode specifically in a Malibu. I got positive response and because of that I don't think that I have to spend a single $ at all for the upgade.

Furthermore I'll have all the inconvenience i.e. take the boat to the dealership (boat is in a marina, dealer is 1.5 hours away), get the gauge pulled out, have it shipped to the US, ...

I confronted ZO with the situation, they apologized and offered to do the upgrade in my off-season and that they will "look what they can do with the upgrade fee". :(

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Toby

Hey Toby,

Just curious...do you happen to know what they were using for speed control at Moomba? With the water running as fast as it was after that record breaking storm, I would assume ZO would have been ineffective.

We used ZO.. Obviously being a CC event with the new 200s we did have the river current version. I forget what the adjust was we were having to use but it was a huge number. It was the fastest current ive seen people attempt to ski in before by a fair margin. Also the biggest storm ive ever seen too! Im trying to find a photo i took from the tower, you can barely see the jump ramp through the rain and hail.

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MalibuTime

Yeah, that's what ZO offered.

I got three problems with that solution though.

/1 We are in the middle of our (short) season. I really can't afford to rip the gauge out and leave the boat w/o it for weeks. (At our ski school we use it almost every day.)

/2 We already invested around 1.3k $ for the ZO option. The upgrade fee (including all the shipping costs) would be another couple of 100s $$.

/3 Prior to my order I asked ZO about the river mode specifically in a Malibu. I got positive response and because of that I don't think that I have to spend a single $ at all for the upgade.

Furthermore I'll have all the inconvenience i.e. take the boat to the dealership (boat is in a marina, dealer is 1.5 hours away), get the gauge pulled out, have it shipped to the US, ...

I confronted ZO with the situation, they apologized and offered to do the upgrade in my off-season and that they will "look what they can do with the upgrade fee". :(

The way I look at it, if they put in writing (or Malibu did) that it will have the river current feature then they either owe you a complete upgrade at no charge for labor or material, or they owe you the $$ you paid for it and should be restoring what ever the factory option was (MC).

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Hydrofoil

Current adjust is not used (or needed) for a slalom course with ZO. Speed over ground, or speed thru the course (which is stationary) is controlled by ZO GPS with no adjustments necesary for wind, or current.

I think some are confused with the issue of controlling water speed under the ski vs controlling time/speed thru the course.

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