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hull?


fashionair30

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We do both ski and wakeboard............Trying for the best of both we went with a 23 LSV Wakesetter on a diamond hull. Get all the ballast (built in) for boardin' and an ok ski wake to lay it over on.....

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Now that the LSV and the VLX both are on the wake hull, what is the difference between the two boats? Seems that Malibu is making two models that are basically the same.

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They're different size boats.

wakesetter vs sunscape nomenclature dictates the hull design (although graphics can tell another story). For example, there are a lot of sunscapes out there with wakesetter graphics.

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Now that the LSV and the VLX both are on the wake hull, what is the difference between the two boats?  Seems that Malibu is making two models that are basically the same.

The LSV is a 23' boat with a 100" beam, it weighs 3900 pounds, holds 14 people and 55 gallons of fuel. You can put the 8.1 in this boat!!!

The VLX is a 21'6" boat with a 98" beam, it weighs 3600 pounds, holds 11 people and 46 gallons of fuel. You can NOT get this boat with the 8.1... :(

They are both great wakeboard boats, I've had one of each. The wakes are simialr but the LSV is slighlty wider than the VLX at similar rope lengths.

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Hello, Im new here just courious how is the sv23 Diamond hull different than the wake hull and are all the hulls by malibu in the same design... Im trying to figure out what boat to get, Thanks!

Back to the lecture at hand...

my order for wakeboarding:

Vdrive wake hulls

Vdrive diamond hulls

Ddrive wake hulls

Ddrive diamond hulls

others would obviously have swapped the vdrive diamonds with the DDrive wakes. I guess they like stepping on weight and having a reason not to bring people in the boat.

sorry aneal Crazy.gif

Jonh, answer me this: why is a v-drive better than a d-drive for wakeboaring?

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First, weight-hiding options. In our old sunscape, we ran 2 800# water-bed mattresses in the rear trunks, mls, and bow weight. We had lots of weight and you couldn't see any of it. To have that much weight in ANY DD like a sunsetter LX, sunkicker, i-ride...whatever, you'd be stepping all OVER it. Advantage: VD (IMO)

More stock wake with ballast. All the VDs are capabale of more stock weight than DDs if someone just wants to fill and empty without the hassle of additional bags. More stock weight means bigger stock wake. Advanatge: VD (IMO)

More stock wake without ballast. A VD, with it's rear-weight bias, makes a bigger stock, unweighted wake than a DD (Plus it's heavier to boot). Diamond or not. Advanatge: VD (IMO)

As for a diamond VD v wake DD, I just prefer the shape. You can overload the trunks with weight and not have a wall of wake on a diamond VD. It beefs up just as nicely with a better ramp. A trunk-weighted and wedged VLX, without proper bow balancing, makes a wall, that, especially on double ups, can cause significant bone realignment. Similarly, a wake DD, although less severe than a VLX, still has the same "wall wake" shortcomings. Advantage: VD (IMO)

But, as I said before, to each his own. I just certainly don't think I'm leading him "obvious wrong direction". Now, if I had said he should get a snob or an X-7, now that would be a different story. :)

Peace

EDIT: I should have explained something better. The opinions above are based on 21 foot diamonds. As for the 21.5s, I have not wakeboarded behind a diamond 21.5, and all my experience with the diamond 23 was on other people's boats (so weighting was not up to me). So although I liked the wake better than DD wake, my opinion should be taken WAGOS in comparing a 23. In my previous posts I stated that Vdrive diamonds CAN have bigger wakes than wake DDs. Hope we didn't confuse you any worse OP!

Edited by JohnDoe
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While you have a point, it is easier to hide extra weight in a VD, and that is an advantage it's not really revelant to the hull discussion.

The point I'm trying to make is - and I'll use some real world examples of boats that I've personally owned instead of generalizations about entire lines - if you take a vd and a dd that are both on the same hull and you weight them the same the wakes will be the same. I owned an 04 wakesetter 23 Xti and an 04 wakesetter LSV. One dd one vd. While stock the vd had a better wake, it did have extra ballast from the factory. But once loaded properly (a lot of wakeboarder are adding extra weight now days) both boats had almost identical wakes and wake characteristics. I was never able to do an A/B comparison on the water, but switching from one to the other I could not tell a difference. My point here is the hull design has much more impact on the wake size and characterisitcs than the placement of the motor.

So with your rational one might also assume it would be better to purchase an I/O for wakeboarding because the motor is in the rear and you can hide a lot of weight in it, is that a fair statement?

Here's the part that people don't understand, or can't come to terms with because of the boat they have sitting in their garage. Malibu designed the Diamond hull to be a world class slalom boat hull. Look at the transom of a boat with the Diamond hull, the little strakes in the hull they actually create a ^ or a channel that runs along the bottom of the hull, lenghtwise. This channel (all of them) creates lift - this lift pushes the boat out of the water limiting the footprint left behind - ie: the wake. Malibu has won awards for this design. It's good and it works. This is the single most important reason you want to stay away from it for wakeboarding. It will not let the boat sit deeper in the water. Adding weight to the boat does not change the design of the hull, while it will help; you get to a point of deminishing returns. I was able to spend a lot of time in an 02 Sunsetter LSV (Diamond Hull). We tried all sorts of weight configurations and were never able to get the wake even close to that of the same year wakesetter VLX (21' non diamond hull). Real world experience, apples to apples comparison the wakes didn't compare.

Your vague description of an improperly weighted VLX (what year???) is also quite misleading. Weighting a boat is not just throwing sacks in the trunk and hitting the throttle. Countless articles have been wrote on the subject, heck even MC has a how to weight your boat flash program on their website - showing you what happens when you throw sacks in the rear and deploy the wedge - the rider falls! It works in your (diamond hull) boat because the slalom hull forces the rear of the boat out of the water keeping the wake size down. Your misleading yourself by thinking it works out nicely. Take a non diamond hulled boat and put half the weight properly in it and you will have a better overall wake. Non diamond hulls are still capable of rampy/steep characteristics - that's weight placement along with a non changeable beam of the boat. You also compared (I'm guessing here) a 98" beam old style LSV to an old style 93" beam VLX. The VLX will have the steeper wake by default due to the beam of the boat. Couple that with improper weighting and you get the wall of water your describing. Learning how to weight a boat properly will go a long way.

So can you wakeboard behing a RXi and a susetter LSV? Of course, but you pulled the wrong tool out of the toolbox, yeah you can get-R-done, but it's not as efficient and with less than optimal results.

eom

peace :)

edited for grammer

Edited by aneal000
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Well thats just like, your opinion, man.

As is yours.

You need to pay attention to what he said about weight placement. Aneal is right, it has everything to do with wake shape & characteristic. The Diamond hull boat that you talked about having a rampier wake....it's due to the fact that the Diamond hull is doing exactly what it was designed to do. If you know how to weight a boat with a wake hull, you can achieve that same ramp & at the same time not be limited to that. Wake shape is all personal preference & the Wake hull will offer much, much better versatility to that end.

I understand that you loved your Diamond hull, but don't be blinded by ownership goggles.

Edited by WakeGirl
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I don't wakeboard but I do surf. It would seem to me the strakes on the diamond hull are ineffective at low speed and even at wakeboard speed would not produce the type of lift the hull was designed for, ie: skiing at 32-34-36mph.

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All of this is getting misconstrued. I'm not arguing that a diamond is as good as a wake hull in the same configuration, I'm saying that a diamond Vdrive can be macked up better than a DD wake.

I'm hardly blinded by ownership goggles. We have owned 6 'bus, 3 of which were non-diamond. A DD wake simply does not measure up to a Vdrive diamond.

The bottom line is this, a diamond VD with 2000#s throws a macking wake with the entire interior available. To achieve the same wake with a DD, you would need at least 1500#s, and you would have no room in the boat. Is that less efficient? Yes. Does it matter when you have 10 friends and a waist-high wake? Nope. Should the OP look for a VLX? Yep. Should he take a diamond VD over a DD "wake"? Yep.

But of course...this is just like...my opinion

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I don't wakeboard but I do surf. It would seem to me the strakes on the diamond hull are ineffective at low speed and even at wakeboard speed would not produce the type of lift the hull was designed for, ie: skiing at 32-34-36mph.

Good point. The strakes do come into their own above 30, but, let's take a slxi (classic) and iride for example. At wakeboard speed, there is a significant difference between the 2. However, the diamond VDs sink more b/c of the rear-weight bias, and the strakes have less of an effect on that boat until higher speeds. As for surfing, Vdrive diamond over DD "wake" for shizzle.

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I have spent a lot of time behind a SSVLX (Diamond) and a WSVLX (non-diamond)and when they are weighted the same there isn't much of a difference at all. At least I can't tell a difference. They both throw great wakes IMO.

BTW - I have seen people land flips behind jet skis, and out in the flats with no wake at all.

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A DD wake simply does not measure up to a Vdrive diamond. 

I was trying to be done with this thread, but this comment is about as inaccurate as anything I've seen on this site. You may have been in/behind two boats that this held true. But the reason is much deeper than your explaniation. The motor placement has little to ZERO effect on the wake - ie my 23 XTi and 23 LSV example - same hull motor in different position - weighted the same the results were the same: conclusion the wetted surface area was the same therefore the wake was the same. Motor placement is nothing more than weight placement. The hull design on the other hand greatly affects the wake.

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Hello, Im new here just courious how is the sv23 Diamond hull different than the wake hull and are all the hulls by malibu in the same design... Im trying to figure out what boat to get, Thanks!

Back to the OP, the difference is in the design of the chines down the length of the hull. So what? Well, reverse chines like on the diamond act to "lift" the hull out of the water, which creates a lighter feeling boat while driving and throws wakes that resemble that of a lighter boat. The "wake" hull's chines do not have such an angle, which allows the hull to "sag" more. Better for wakesports and barefooting, less good for slalom. Comparing apples to apples, a wake hull would be better for wakeboarding. However, my point is that a diamond hulled Vdrive still wakeboards better than a DD "wake" because it has a rear-weight bias and the chines do not compensate enough for that.

All the malibu hulls are "basically" the same design. Widths, deadrise angles, and chine shape do differentiate the boats, but they are the same basic shape.

BTW, don't let the discussions on here keep you from coming back! A lot of us have spent WAY too much time behind these boats and definitely spend WAY too much time arguing about our perceptions and favorites. Good luck with your search.

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  However, my point is that a diamond hulled Vdrive still wakeboards better than a DD "wake" because it has a rear-weight bias and the chines do not compensate enough for that. 

Man, I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but this is just not accurate. I've explained why countless times above.

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A DD wake simply does not measure up to a Vdrive diamond. 

I was trying to be done with this thread, but this comment is about as inaccurate as anything I've seen on this site. You may have been in/behind two boats that this held true. But the reason is much deeper than your explaniation. The motor placement has little to ZERO effect on the wake - ie my 23 XTi and 23 LSV example - same hull motor in different position - weighted the same the results were the same: conclusion the wetted surface area was the same therefore the wake was the same. Motor placement is nothing more than weight placement. The hull design on the other hand greatly affects the wake.

Dude, we don't disagree. This all started when I said that a Vdrive diamond CAN throw a wake as big as a DD. Then you came along and said I was pointing him in the "obvious wrong direction". My statement is ENTIRELY accurate.

Peace

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We have sold quite a few "Fakesetters" in the last 2 seasons. Everyone seems to be pleased with the wakeboard wake. Most folks realize they what to expect on a diamond hulled VLX or LSV. They are willing to give up one or the other, to gain the ability to do both.

In reference to the difference, think "lifting hull" for the diamond hull, and "submersing hull" on the wake hulls. The diamond hulls are engineered to stay on top and flattening the wake. Wake hulls are the opposite and made to sink a bit, which in turn creates a larger wake.

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A DD wake simply does not measure up to a Vdrive diamond. 

I was trying to be done with this thread, but this comment is about as inaccurate as anything I've seen on this site. You may have been in/behind two boats that this held true. But the reason is much deeper than your explaniation. The motor placement has little to ZERO effect on the wake - ie my 23 XTi and 23 LSV example - same hull motor in different position - weighted the same the results were the same: conclusion the wetted surface area was the same therefore the wake was the same. Motor placement is nothing more than weight placement. The hull design on the other hand greatly affects the wake.

Dude, of course the weight and location of the motor is the important thing, as opposed to "where" it is...duh.

Please explain your weighting methodology that led you to think that a DD and VD have the same wake. I'm talking BTTW weighting. There isn't even enough room in the Xti to hold the weight that the lsv will hide.

Theres a lot more to it than wetted surface. Also important is rear-bias. Thats why a i ride and vride throw entirely different wakes...rear-weight bias...diamond vdrives have it....DD's don't.

I've been accused of ownership goggles twice now...hello...our current boat is a diamond DD and it is AWFUL for wakeboarding.

So explain to me why the sunscape with the diamond throws such a different wake? OK, it's 6 inches longer (bad for wake size by teh way)...it's OK, you can admit it, the difference is that has rear-weight bias.

Peace

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