An interesting Evening

[areamike]

If you get resistance, perhaps instill this technique along with your others:

"Your child/children not only stole from me but, more importantly, they stole from my family: my kids, my wife. How would you feel if someone stole from your kids, your spouse? Why is it acceptable behavior for your kids to inflict anguish on my family?" Perhaps attempting to put them in your shoes might help.

If not, then lay on this: "Ok, I see we aren't coming to an amicable resolution to this serious issue. Therefore, I'll let law enforcement, the Judge, and Juvenile Hall resolve it for me...along with recouping all the legal fees that I will incur getting my $ back from you...which I WILL."

Don't let anything slide. Would you let your kids act like this: I doubt it. Wrong-doers thrive on our society's apathy and tolerance.

[Sullivan]

Hey, You can't fix stupid. Stupid lazy a$$ parents will always be just that.

If it comes down to it and you don't think your going to get your money back and you don't get the feeling that the Kids are going to learn a lesson. I would tell the parents you want the kids to work it off. Not together at different times. For me we have a small farm, lots of work to do around here. Work these kids and try and turn it into a learning lesson.

Heck now that I am thinking about it. I think I would still press charges and work a deal with the judge to have the kids work for you doing what ever you choose.

Let us know how this turns out. Someday we all might have to face something like this.

[DIE2SURF]

Sorry...I forgot to suggest this as well:

1. Know for yourself what is a Win, a Break-even, and an Unacceptable Level of resolution for this issue. Once you define those for yourself, then you will know what responses you will give during the discussions with the parents.

2. Use the term "We" when possible. e.g. "How can we come to an amicable solution" or "What are your thoughts on how we can come to an acceptable solution to avoid a win/lose or lose/lose result?" (possible lose/lose result: their kids get involved with law enforcement and you having to go through the hassle and expense of legal proceedings). If you preface the discussions in a manner of "We're in this together", then you may get more cooperation (catch more flies with honey than vinegar method). Also, if you allow them to give their suggestions first, then you may get a feeling of their frame of mind, what level of responsibility they hold themselves to, and they may even suggest the exact solution that you are hoping for. If you simply tell them what you want or what they have to do, they may take a defensive stance of "you don't tell me what to do or what my kids have to do".

3. Once they give their suggested remedies, then you can accept, accept with additional stipulations, suggest something different.

4. Give reasons why you have your suggested solution: Cost for repair/replace, time/effort, time lost, interference in summer plans, etc.

5. If/when you both come to an agreed upon solution: put it to the SMART test.

S- Specific (money, finished product, service fees, etc.)

M - Measurable ($ amounts, dates, locations)

A - Achievable (Can the solution actually be accomplished and in the timeframe specified)

R - Realistic (Are they really capable of getting this work done in 1 month, do they actually have the $)

T - Timeframe (When will it be complete? If takes too long, what ramifications?)

These are the techniques I use as a mediator and negotiator, and they work quite well.

Even if you put all this to the test, it may not be enough to get to your Win or B/E. The good thing is, you still haven't given up the last option on my previous post.

Best wishes to you.

[wakeboy]

I understand your reluctance to ask for money to repair and replace your goods. However, I have a couple of points as to why you you should not go easy on them, even because of their situation.

1. Everyone grew up with at least one friend that got into trouble a lot and the parents never punished them or did anything about it. They continued to do stupid things and get in more and more trouble and the parents continued to do nothing. Obviously we have all done stupid things, but we learned because our parents made it a point to make sure we never did something like that again. Any parent letting a 6, 8, or 9 year old run around without supervision isn't doing their job and those kids will do it again. You asking for the money you deserve in payment and that may hit that family where it hurts and all of a sudden those parents may actually have to do some parenting in order to hold on to what every money they can.

2. You work hard for your money (I am assuming) and you get taxed higher on your money so lower income people can take advantage of health care, wealthfare, and everything else under the sun. The harder we work the higher a percentage of money we have to give back. You do your part already so lower income families can get by. It isn't your responibility to take care of them by giving a big chunk of your paycheck and then letting them off the hook when they damage your property.

Ok my rant is over.

[TrickyNicky]

I am 20 years old and Like all of you I've been in my fair share of trouble. I'm from a good family and my parents never hesitated to kick my a$$. I used to get it nightly. And when I got into real trouble, I always said I understood what I did wrong and wouldn't do it again despite the punishment. Well some have had REAL punishments and some have not. Even when I think I've learned a lesson, as soon as I hear a 'weak' punishment nothing comes to my head faster than "Well thats not that bad, I kind of got away with one there." Lesson NOT learned.

IMHO You have to get them a good punishment. I highly doubt they have parents that will do it. I don't think money is the answer, that part of is up to your situation on how to deal with it. But I think they need to do some SERIOUS work to learn a lesson. Money means nothing to the kids and if the parents 'lose' some there going to spend less time with the kids and maybe end up worse. But if these kids get some serious community service maybe there is hope yet. (I once had to poor beer at a huge music festival...lesson NOT learned). I also like the idea of them all doing it seperately.

When I was younger I got drunk while snowboarding with my schoool. My punishment was that I could not get my license for a year. The reason was if I was stupid enough to operate a snowboard drunk whats stopping me from driving a car. As an almost 16 yr old thats crazy about cars...this one hit me. But not until 9 months after my 16th birthday did I really understand the punishment, but than it sank in and I've never come close to doing anything that wreckless...while drinking.

Don't go soft on them. You may be the only good influence these kids are going to have. Make your point stand the test of time...or at least your best effort. Inevitably someday your kids will do something stupid (maybe not this bad) and you'll appreciate someone elses effort in helping your child learn a valued lesson.

BTW sorry to hear about the incident. We just got our used Bu 3 days ago and I'm already uncomfortable leaving it with someone else to get the stereo installed today

[areamike]

I am 20 years old and Like all of you I've been in my fair share of trouble.

Wait a second. I though you said you were 21 in another topic??? You just trying to get in that bar the other night?

[Pistol Pete]

Nate,

Isn't your insurance handling the damages?

[Ndawg12]

Nate,

Isn't your insurance handling the damages?

I looked into that but decided to give the police some time to sort it out, which they did, so I won't have to file a claim.

To everyone else: I have read every word of everyone's posts and I appreciate all the advise. I will let you know the outcome...probably later tonight.

[travlnmannn]

Update: They caught these kids. 6,8, and 9 years old. Parents seem eager to get this resolved. I have to make phone calls this evening to ask for my money from 3 different families.

It's nice to be on this side of the law

Don't feel sympathy. They raised those kids. I'm a true believer that parents are the cause of their childrens' sins. At least until they are 18

[LS-One]

I understand your reluctance to ask for money to repair and replace your goods. However, I have a couple of points as to why you you should not go easy on them, even because of their situation.

1. Everyone grew up with at least one friend that got into trouble a lot and the parents never punished them or did anything about it. They continued to do stupid things and get in more and more trouble and the parents continued to do nothing. Obviously we have all done stupid things, but we learned because our parents made it a point to make sure we never did something like that again. Any parent letting a 6, 8, or 9 year old run around without supervision isn't doing their job and those kids will do it again. You asking for the money you deserve in payment and that may hit that family where it hurts and all of a sudden those parents may actually have to do some parenting in order to hold on to what every money they can.

2. You work hard for your money (I am assuming) and you get taxed higher on your money so lower income people can take advantage of health care, wealthfare, and everything else under the sun. The harder we work the higher a percentage of money we have to give back. You do your part already so lower income families can get by. It isn't your responibility to take care of them by giving a big chunk of your paycheck and then letting them off the hook when they damage your property.

Ok my rant is over.

[TrickyNicky]

Wait a second. I though you said you were 21 in another topic??? You just trying to get in that bar the other night?

I'll be 21 on July 31st. Feel free to send your gifts anytime though. Wakeboards, slalom ski, slalom course etc...don't be shy I'm not picky with colours

And I have no problem getting into the bars. In ontario the drinking age is 19 and in quebec which ottawa's downtown connects with it is 18 years old. But in quebec if your 14 your pretty much old enough. The french have attitude. Something I took advantage of growing up!

Good luck NDawg and let us know how it plays out.

[NorCaliBu]

i.e. "I'll do you a big favor since your being a single parent is sooo tough. I'll press charges and have your child sent to juvenile detention and then it won't be so tough on you."

Acually, in juvenile court (at least in CA, maybe it's different where you are) they would be hit with a lot more costs. $17/night for juvenile hall + $$$/ for public defender + restitution (actual costs to you) + likely community service.

Wrong-doers thrive on our society's apathy and tolerance.

That's liberalism for you. I still don't understand the term "prisoner's rights"...say what?

[WakingMeHappy]

So the little vandals were 6, 8 and 9 years olds. Hmmm, maybe we should combine this thread with this one and see what happens.

[Ndawg12]

So the little vandals were 6, 8 and 9 years olds. Hmmm, maybe we should combine this thread with this one and see what happens.

That was the first thing I thought of too

Update: I talked to 2 families last night. The first family (6 yr old) was extremely apologetic and I gave them a month to get me my money, they said their kid has not left the apartment since they found out and that he will not be hanging around those kids any more. The second family is single mom, divorced, trying to raise 5 kids, and work 12 hours a day, yadda yadda. She offered no apology what so ever. She said she didn't have the money but would call her kid's daddy, even though "he ain't even payin me no child support" Now he's supposed to call me back and I haven't heard from him yet, I tried calling him twice and it goes straight to v-mail. I still don't have info on the 3rd family yet....

[travlnmannn]

That was the first thing I thought of too

Update: I talked to 2 families last night. The first family (6 yr old) was extremely apologetic and I gave them a month to get me my money, they said their kid has not left the apartment since they found out and that he will not be hanging around those kids any more. The second family is single mom, divorced, trying to raise 5 kids, and work 12 hours a day, yadda yadda. She offered no apology what so ever. She said she didn't have the money but would call her kid's daddy, even though "he ain't even payin me no child support" Now he's supposed to call me back and I haven't heard from him yet, I tried calling him twice and it goes straight to v-mail. I still don't have info on the 3rd family yet....

Broken families means no restitution. Single mom raising 5 kids !!!!! Instead of regulating me why doesn't obama try regulating parents having kids that shouldn't have kids. I hate hearing these things. Maybe if society allowed discipline without some kind of repercussion to the parent we wouldn't have so many of these problems. I always hate hearing parents say "they are just kids". So will you tell the judge that when he/she is 16 standing in front of a judge getting sentenced to jail? I wish you so much more luck NDawg. But in the end I'm sure your frustration with the families will just lead you to forgiving the situation and moving on without any restitution. Although I hope otherwise. Ok I'm done ranting

Edited May 12, 2010 by travlnmannn

[wakeboy]

I would let that lady know that you have tried calling the father, no response and that it isn't your job to track him down. I would call her and let her know that she has one week to call you back and work out a payment plan with you. If she falls back on the "poor me" excuse just let her know that you have kids, mortgage, and now added expenses due to her son destroying your property. Tell her after that one week is up if she has not worked out an agreed upon payment plan or at any point she doesn't pay you, that you will press charges to the full extent of the law and you will due whatever is necessary to get the money. If the father needs to pay any of the money it is up to her to coordinate that and you will not be dealing with two different people.

[Ronnie]

IMO...These are kids, not criminals, YET. Sounds to me like they need a dose of responsibility and life direction. I would ask the police, judge or whoever needs to "sentence" these kids to work detail for you. Establish a payback for each of them and let them work it off. Let them mow your yard, clean things up, help an elderly neighbor, help at your church, anything that lets them work it off. Their parents paying you will not help the kids. Now here's my suggestion. Be there with the kids when they are working, even help direct them. Get to know them and be an influence on them. After you have gotten them to work part of it off and things are going a little better between all of you, take them to the lake with you. Let them see how much your boat and accessories mean to your family and how much they enjoy it. Pull them tubing, let them swim, anything that will show the value of this stuff and how if they stole it, your family wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Make them clean up the boat at the end of the day. You never know, you might make an influence on a kids life when others in his family won't. Show them the other side.

[areamike]

IMO...These are kids, not criminals, YET. Sounds to me like they need a dose of responsibility and life direction. I would ask the police, judge or whoever needs to "sentence" these kids to work detail for you. Establish a payback for each of them and let them work it off. Let them mow your yard, clean things up, help an elderly neighbor, help at your church, anything that lets them work it off. Their parents paying you will not help the kids. Now here's my suggestion. Be there with the kids when they are working, even help direct them. Get to know them and be an influence on them. After you have gotten them to work part of it off and things are going a little better between all of you, take them to the lake with you. Let them see how much your boat and accessories mean to your family and how much they enjoy it. Pull them tubing, let them swim, anything that will show the value of this stuff and how if they stole it, your family wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Make them clean up the boat at the end of the day. You never know, you might make an influence on a kids life when others in his family won't. Show them the other side.

...and if all else fails, give them a TIMEOUT...

[Ndawg12]

Broken families means no restitution. Single mom raising 5 kids !!!!! Instead of regulating me why doesn't obama try regulating parents having kids that shouldn't have kids. I hate hearing these things. Maybe if society allowed discipline without some kind of repercussion to the parent we wouldn't have so many of these problems. I always hate hearing parents say "they are just kids". So will you tell the judge that when he/she is 16 standing in front of a judge getting sentenced to jail? I wish you so much more luck NDawg. But in the end I'm sure your frustration with the families will just lead you to forgiving the situation and moving on without any restitution. Although I hope otherwise. Ok I'm done ranting

I agree, I've got my own philosophy population control, it's tongue-in-cheek...kinda...but not really

I will take her to court even for the small amount of money they owe me. Believe it or not, it's more than just the money, I'm trying to play a very small role in these kids' lives in teaching them a lesson. Taking time for court and all the extra expenses should open the eyes of the parents which should have a trickle down effect. The ones that do pay, I did and will make sure they are teaching their child a lesson by asking questions about what they've all ready done or talked about.

I would let that lady know that you have tried calling the father, no response and that it isn't your job to track him down. I would call her and let her know that she has one week to call you back and work out a payment plan with you. If she falls back on the "poor me" excuse just let her know that you have kids, mortgage, and now added expenses due to her son destroying your property. Tell her after that one week is up if she has not worked out an agreed upon payment plan or at any point she doesn't pay you, that you will press charges to the full extent of the law and you will due whatever is necessary to get the money. If the father needs to pay any of the money it is up to her to coordinate that and you will not be dealing with two different people.

Great minds think alike , I'm calling her tonight to tell her that if I haven't heard from him today.

[TheKiwi]

Instead of regulating me why doesn't obama try regulating parents having kids that shouldn't have kids.

One would assume the kids are older than 1 1/2 years, so blame bush.

[wakeboy]

NDawg, any updates on what has happened. I hope everything is working out as best it can.

[Michigan boarder]

I think it's a losing situation. I like the idea of having them work it off, but have you ever been in charge of a 6 or 8 or 9 year old that doesn't want to listen to you? These aren't 12 year olds, they are little kids. And, based on their actions, crappy little kids that don't listen well. They also know that you have no authority, and can't force them to do anything. And mom/dad has probably chastized them initially, and at this point will be b*tching about the stupid judge and stupid you for making their kid work on something so stupid (your lawn, cleaning, etc. etc.), and will then send their kid to do the stupid work with a real great attitude. I'd press charges, and get what money you can. The more you are involved with any of them the worse your situation will become, IMO (frustration, more exposure to theft/vandalism, etc.).

I'm not up on boat storage, but can you keep it at the marina that services it for a monthly fee?

[Ndawg12]

NDawg, any updates on what has happened. I hope everything is working out as best it can.

I think it's a losing situation. I like the idea of having them work it off, but have you ever been in charge of a 6 or 8 or 9 year old that doesn't want to listen to you? These aren't 12 year olds, they are little kids. And, based on their actions, crappy little kids that don't listen well. They also know that you have no authority, and can't force them to do anything. And mom/dad has probably chastized them initially, and at this point will be b*tching about the stupid judge and stupid you for making their kid work on something so stupid (your lawn, cleaning, etc. etc.), and will then send their kid to do the stupid work with a real great attitude. I'd press charges, and get what money you can. The more you are involved with any of them the worse your situation will become, IMO (frustration, more exposure to theft/vandalism, etc.).

I'm not up on boat storage, but can you keep it at the marina that services it for a monthly fee?

I have given all 3 families 1 month to come up with the money. 1 family is extremely cooperative, the other 2, not so much, I will be making phone calls again this evening before I will threaten to press charges. I thought about having them work it off, but besides the reason's MB mentioned above, I don't want any of these people knowing where I live either!!

Edit- family #2 just called, apologized, even put their son on the phone to talk to me. Looks like I'm 2 for 3 so far, but still no money in hand yet

Edited May 17, 2010 by Ndawg12

[wakeboy]

Well good work. It is nice to hear that at least 2 of the 3 families are very apologetic. Just don't lose sight of the fact that they owe you this money and have to pay it in full. You know if it was your kid you would have to pay it in full. Someone can be as apologetic as they want, but until they pay you what they owe you then all it is are words. I know I sound like a mean jerk, but I just hate to see a anyone get screwed over because someone took advantage of how nice that person is.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Does anyone else think it is odd that the victim is having to contact the perps? It seems to me that the police would want to keep the two parties separate here. Sorry if it was explained earlier but I did not have time to read the whole thread.