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Cunningham1143

Radar Theory vs Radar Senate vs Ho Triumph???

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Cunningham1143

I've been skiiing on a HO Vengeance for about 10 years and I'm about due an upgrade. No local boat stores around here carry any ski inventory to demo so I pretty much have to just try and find the best fit and go with that. For background, I'm @6'2", 190. I ski mainly open water, but do occassionally run the course at a length off. I grew up skiing mainly open water and was never around a course so I never got used to it. I ski 30-32 mph. The Radar Theory, Radar Senate, and HO Triumph seem to be the three skis I find that should fit my needs. I currently ski with a front boot and rear RTP, I plan on sticking with that since its what I'm used to. Does anyone have any personal feedback on the difference between these skis? I'm looked through the forum and found a little bit of info, but figured it might help to see some comparisons. I guess some info on some new recommended bindings would help as well as I tore my old ones at the end of last season. I know the best route would be to demo a few skis, but that's not really an option in my area. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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billb

Well, here's my opinion for what it's worth. I used to ski on an HO Nitro, before switching to a Senate. That seemed like a step up performance-wise. The Nitro was a step up performance-wise from the Triumph (I never skied a Triumph). The Theory is a wider version of the Senate, so it can perform better at slower speeds, but loses performance at higher speeds. If you're planning to stay in the 30-32 mph range, I would go with the Theory. I would think that you wouldn't ski out of it until you went to 34 or 36. I know a good skier who rides the Theory at slower speeds in the INT Wide Ride division at 28off and beyond.

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davemac

I can tell you that the forebody of the Theory is .40 inches wider then standard, and the Senate is .20 inches wider. I think the Triumph is .40 but please don't hold me to that. The little bit of extra width makes starts easier and the skis more forgiving. The Theory would generally be skied at a bit slower speed (max of 32), where as the Senate would easily be at home through 34mph.

I have not skied the Triumph, but it is a very popular choice, and on the same par as the Radar models you indicated. I recall someone describing it as "the correct choice 90% of the time for 90% of skiers).

You always have the option of the "ski it before you buy it" demo program thru H2osmosis.

edit to add... the summary here is that the Senate will take you deeper into the course (if that is one of your goals). Lengthwise, you probably are a "tweener" w/ the Radar 67 and 69" options. As you may know, Radar and HO binding options are interchangeable between these two brands.

If you chose the Senate option in 67, one was listed on the classifieds here yesterday at a great price....but if I were to direct you to it, you may incorrectly assume that all this info I have given is bias.

Edited by davemac

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obski

The Theory and the Triumph are both going to be very similar skis to each other and will be a step up from your current Vengeance. The Senate will be a step up from both of the other two and be a slightly more aggressive ski. The Senate will allow you to progress further, but if that is not your goal, then you will enjoy either the Theory or the Triumph with what you are doing now.

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ed obermeier

The Theory and the Triumph are both going to be very similar skis to each other and will be a step up from your current Vengeance. The Senate will be a step up from both of the other two and be a slightly more aggressive ski. The Senate will allow you to progress further, but if that is not your goal, then you will enjoy either the Theory or the Triumph with what you are doing now.

Another option. If you do intend to stay at 30 - 32 you can keep going shorter on the Theory or Triumph, both are performance oriented enough take you to pretty short line (I've been into 38 off 30 mph on my Theory) or just cruise on either ski, they're that versatile. I wouldn'ty suggest taking either over 32 mph though, they're just not built for those speeds. Tried my Theory at 34 mph 28 off, about broke my friggin' neck launching off the wake... Otherwise ditto what obski said.

Ed

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Sullyski

Gents,

I wanted to offer my two cents on the conversation, if I may. The Nitro and the Senate could be considered the same shape class. The Theory and HO's Triumph could also be considered the next shape class up in surface area. Now for my shameless plug... the reason the Senate is an improvement over a Nitro or a Theory over a Triumph is the blending rail we put in the bottom of our shaped skis. This rail is grip, it adds stability and torque to the finish of the turn. As skiers, we enjoy the surface area advantage everywhere (starts, acceleration, turn approach) except for the finish of the turn. Our rail holds the ski in the water during this part of your ski path, stopping the ski from "sliding away" from you, like an edge-to-edge shaped ski will do. In the RadaR line, the Senate and the Theory are identical skis (bevels, rocker, sidecut) other than .2" added to the width of the Theory. This only means that the Theory should max out at a boat speed of 32-33 mph due to the amount of surface area being ridden. The Senate is good through 34 mph with no trouble. Both are amazing skis in their own rite. I personally believe that there not a more fun ski to ride in the course than the Theory at 32 mph, and I ride a Senate every spring freeskiing and in the course at 34. It's a blast!

Please feel free to let me know if you have any more questions. Sorry to jump in the conversation late.

Sully

RadaR Skis

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obski

Gents,

I wanted to offer my two cents on the conversation, if I may. The Nitro and the Senate could be considered the same shape class. The Theory and HO's Triumph could also be considered the next shape class up in surface area. Now for my shameless plug... the reason the Senate is an improvement over a Nitro or a Theory over a Triumph is the blending rail we put in the bottom of our shaped skis. This rail is grip, it adds stability and torque to the finish of the turn. As skiers, we enjoy the surface area advantage everywhere (starts, acceleration, turn approach) except for the finish of the turn. Our rail holds the ski in the water during this part of your ski path, stopping the ski from "sliding away" from you, like an edge-to-edge shaped ski will do. In the RadaR line, the Senate and the Theory are identical skis (bevels, rocker, sidecut) other than .2" added to the width of the Theory. This only means that the Theory should max out at a boat speed of 32-33 mph due to the amount of surface area being ridden. The Senate is good through 34 mph with no trouble. Both are amazing skis in their own rite. I personally believe that there not a more fun ski to ride in the course than the Theory at 32 mph, and I ride a Senate every spring freeskiing and in the course at 34. It's a blast!

Please feel free to let me know if you have any more questions. Sorry to jump in the conversation late.

Sully

RadaR Skis

Hi Sully,

Thanks for your input. I have appreciated your knowledge and fair approach to discussing slalom ski options. I have absolutely loved my Rail boots used on my Triumph. I have been considering giving the Senate a try this year. Any thoughts on the Senate vs. the Senate-C?

Also could you talk about the differences with the new Vector boots vs. the Rail? If I went with a Senate, would I be able to mount my Rails directly to the ski, or would I need a plate other than the one I have on the Triumph?

Thanks.

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davemac

Cool...great to have Sully in our midst...chiming in w/ his knowledge & experience. As I see where this thread is going, I'll throw a plug in for the RadaR Vector boots (which replaced the Radar Rails). I spent the end of last year w/ the Vector, before upgrading to the STrada boot (closed toe helps keep the toes warm in the cold NE waters). While considered the 2nd tier boot in the Radar line...the Vectors are Legit all the way...offering a great combination of Support & Performance while being ridiculously comfy!! I'm soon to be mounting the Vector on my secondary ski (Theory).

Obski...if your Rails are currently mounted to the single Sequence Plate, that would mount right onto the Senate. The other option would be to mount to the Senate w/ individual plates (if you have them).

-Dave

Edited by davemac

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Cunningham1143

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like the Radar Theory with the Vector front boot and rear ARTP is the way I'm gonna go. I think I can get a lot of ride out of that before moving up to something more aggressive like the Senate if I ever get that far. I was leaning that way but also considering moving to the Senate to go ahead and take the next bump up if that makes sense. What about length? Currently I ski a 67" Vengeance with it being another wide ski. Should I stick with a 67 or move to the 69 with the Theory??? I would assume if I went with the Senate the 69 would be the choice. Thanks for the all the help, always good to hear other opinions.

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obski

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like the Radar Theory with the Vector front boot and rear ARTP is the way I'm gonna go. I think I can get a lot of ride out of that before moving up to something more aggressive like the Senate if I ever get that far. I was leaning that way but also considering moving to the Senate to go ahead and take the next bump up if that makes sense. What about length? Currently I ski a 67" Vengeance with it being another wide ski. Should I stick with a 67 or move to the 69 with the Theory??? I would assume if I went with the Senate the 69 would be the choice. Thanks for the all the help, always good to hear other opinions.

I would go with the 67" Theory if you are currently on a 67" Vengeance. I'm on a 67" Triumph and when I demoed the 69" one it felt like a huge plank to me. You will love the Vector boot.

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davemac

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like the Radar Theory with the Vector front boot and rear ARTP is the way I'm gonna go. I think I can get a lot of ride out of that before moving up to something more aggressive like the Senate if I ever get that far. I was leaning that way but also considering moving to the Senate to go ahead and take the next bump up if that makes sense. What about length? Currently I ski a 67" Vengeance with it being another wide ski. Should I stick with a 67 or move to the 69 with the Theory??? I would assume if I went with the Senate the 69 would be the choice. Thanks for the all the help, always good to hear other opinions.

If it helps, I'm the same weight as you, but a few inches shorter. I was told by Radar that 67" Theory for sure was definitely the way to go (69" is a very big stick).

You'll love the Vector w/ ARTP setup!!

Edited by davemac

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Killer

Hi Sully,

Thanks for your input. I have appreciated your knowledge and fair approach to discussing slalom ski options. I have absolutely loved my Rail boots used on my Triumph. I have been considering giving the Senate a try this year. Any thoughts on the Senate vs. the Senate-C?

Also could you talk about the differences with the new Vector boots vs. the Rail? If I went with a Senate, would I be able to mount my Rails directly to the ski, or would I need a plate other than the one I have on the Triumph?

Thanks.

I skied both in 67" at 15 and 22 off 32-34 mph and notice a very slight advantage in speed and acceleration in the Carbon Senate vs the regular senate. I am on a 67" System 8 so both were very different feeling from my ski.

if you do not go passed 34mph or 22 off the regular senate is incredible value, more forgiving in rougher water... the carbon senate can take you right into -38off if you're so inclined.

so are you hoping to ski shortline in the near future or working on form and technique at longer lines and slower speeds? Carbon Senate for the former, regular senate for the latter, or if you just want to spend a bit more $$$ and have something that can take you a bit farther down the line go for the more expensive Senate C.

Edited by Killer

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obski

I skied both in 67" at 15 and 22 off 32-34 mph and notice a very slight advantage in speed and acceleration in the Carbon Senate vs the regular senate. I am on a 67" System 8 so both were very different feeling from my ski.

if you do not go passed 34mph or 22 off the regular senate is incredible value, more forgiving in rougher water... the carbon senate can take you right into -38off if you're so inclined.

so are you hoping to ski shortline in the near future or working on form and technique at longer lines and slower speeds? Carbon Senate for the former, regular senate for the latter, or if you just want to spend a bit more $$$ and have something that can take you a bit farther down the line go for the more expensive Senate C.

Thanks. I've spent most of my time skiing the course last year and expect to do that more this year, so I am looking to progress more.

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Cunningham1143

If it helps, I'm the same weight as you, but a few inches shorter. I was told by Radar that 67" Theory for sure was definitely the way to go (69" is a very big stick).

You'll love the Vector w/ ARTP setup!!

Excellent. This sounds like the plan. Thanks!

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skurfer

Excellent. This sounds like the plan. Thanks!

I went through the same process last year. Coming from a 69 " Synchro, which is a good ski. With the help of folks on this board and Sully at the boat show. I picked up a 67" Senate with Rails last year. The combo is out of this world!

Cunningham, just to let you know I mostly free ski at 31.5-32.5, I'm 6'0" and 5 lbs heavier than you. It sounds like you're leaning towards the Theory, but don't give up on the Senate just, yet. I recently finished a video of last year, so if you want to view it and you're a better skier than I am, then I would say go with the Senate. Shoot me a PM if you want to see it.....

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davemac

... if going w/ the Radar ARTP, make sure you get the latest version that came out last year....with the bungee lace on top (big improvement).

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Cunningham1143

Thanks for all the replies. Was really back and forth on the Senate vs. the Theory. Ended up going with a 67" Theory with the Vector front boot and rear ARTP. I'm pretty excited about it getting here and trying it out. Thanks again.

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skurfer

Thanks for all the replies. Was really back and forth on the Senate vs. the Theory. Ended up going with a 67" Theory with the Vector front boot and rear ARTP. I'm pretty excited about it getting here and trying it out. Thanks again.

Good choice. I really don't think you could have gone wrong.

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CumminsBu

Just bought this set up from Wiley's, but added in a rear boot for later in the season. Very easy to get up on and is easy to ski. Cuts hard too, but I'll be upgrading to the Senate or the Annex soon. Thought the Theory would be a good season starting ski, have not ski in eight years. Feels good to be back on the water.

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ed obermeier

Good on you CumminsBu, welcome back. I can relate; got my first sets of this season last weekend and it fealt GREAT to be back on the water rippin' it a bit after a too long layoff (shoulder surgery a year ago last Feb). Enjoy! :thumbup:

Ed

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obski

Just bought this set up from Wiley's, but added in a rear boot for later in the season. Very easy to get up on and is easy to ski. Cuts hard too, but I'll be upgrading to the Senate or the Annex soon. Thought the Theory would be a good season starting ski, have not ski in eight years. Feels good to be back on the water.

I like the plan. I wish I would make a plan like you have and stick with it.

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