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old skool malibu

Tsusnami or Pirana Pumps

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old skool malibu

My dealer is installing two 750 lbs Fly High sacks for surfing in my 09 VTX. He was thinking about using Tsunami pumps for this set up. His other choice is the factory Pirana pump. I know the Tsunami has a higher GPH rating however are their any drawbacks to the Tsunami pump? Is is an aerator style pump and will it require priming? How about the Pirana - is it aerator or impellar style? What is the least hassle and most reliable pump?

Edited by old skool malibu

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Bobby Light

My dealer is installing two 750 lbs Fly High sacks for surfing in my 09 VTX. He was thinking about using Tsunami pumps for this set up. His other choice is the factory Pirana pump. I know the Tsunami has a higher GPM rating however are their any drawbacks to the Tsunami pump? Is is an aerator style pump and will it require priming? How about the Pirana - is it aerator or impellar style? What is the least hassle and most reliable pump?

Both pumps will be the same rating. The stock pumps are 800 gph and the 3/4 fitting pump from attwood is 800 gph as well. I personally like the build quality of the pirahna pumps a little better but that's just personal preference. I went with johnson pumps when I plumbed in my ballast they are 950 gph with 3\4 fittings.

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Stanley Wheelhouse

My dealer is installing two 750 lbs Fly High sacks for surfing in my 09 VTX. He was thinking about using Tsunami pumps for this set up. His other choice is the factory Pirana pump. I know the Tsunami has a higher GPM rating however are their any drawbacks to the Tsunami pump? Is is an aerator style pump and will it require priming? How about the Pirana - is it aerator or impellar style? What is the least hassle and most reliable pump?

use on reversible ballast puppy and and a y valve to drain and fill the sacs.

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BIG JAY

Use Jabsco ballast puppy pumps.

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BIG JAY

ask Rhino he knows all about them

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old skool malibu

I did use Jabsco ballast puppies (impellar style) on my last boat however the Tsunami or Pirahna are definately cheaper. I think they are both aerator style, is this correct? The Tsunami however comes in at 1200 (there is a 800 gph version) but the Pirahna comes in at only 800. I as just concerned that there could be priming issues with the aerator style pump and the bag? Is there anything I should know when setting up this style of pump for my surf bags. ie does the pump always need water pressure to function properly so should the drain pump be located at the back of the bag?

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Bobby Light

I did use Jabsco ballast puppies (impellar style) on my last boat however the Tsunami or Pirahna are definately cheaper. I think they are both aerator style, is this correct? The Tsunami however comes in at 1200 (there is a 800 gph version) but the Pirahna comes in at only 800. I as just concerned that there could be priming issues with the aerator style pump and the bag? Is there anything I should know when setting up this style of pump for my surf bags. ie does the pump always need water pressure to function properly so should the drain pump be located at the back of the bag?

Yes the pirahna and tsunami are impellar style and you don't have to worry about priming as long as they are below the water line, this is not the case with aerator style pumps.

The only issue with the tsunami 1200 is the fitting size, it's a pain in the butt when plumbing it in with all the reducers you need to make it work from valve to pump and pump to hose. I would use 800's for ease of use.

If you screw the drain pump to the back of the bag it can crush the housing of the pump resulting in leaks and damaged pumps, seen it before. If you can 90 off the back bottom of the sac to the pump you'll be better off.

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Stanley Wheelhouse

I did use Jabsco ballast puppies (impellar style) on my last boat however the Tsunami or Pirahna are definately cheaper. I think they are both aerator style, is this correct? The Tsunami however comes in at 1200 (there is a 800 gph version) but the Pirahna comes in at only 800. I as just concerned that there could be priming issues with the aerator style pump and the bag? Is there anything I should know when setting up this style of pump for my surf bags. ie does the pump always need water pressure to function properly so should the drain pump be located at the back of the bag?

the only problem you may encounter is when your sac is full the water pressure will push through the tsunami pump and drain the sac. therefore you will have to install a valve ahead of the draining tsunami pump to stop the water pressure from pushing through the pump. you will then have to turn those valves each time you want to drain your sac. that is why i went with jabsco ballast puppies, they act as a check valve and are a serviceable pump.

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BIG JAY

the jabsco pumps are also the most cost effective way to go cuz they almost never go bad and the impeller inside is about 28 dollars. so most of your cost is upfront. the jabsco pumps are the way to go. less wiring and less plumming. less pain in the a--......

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Tao of Wake

the only problem you may encounter is when your sac is full the water pressure will push through the tsunami pump and drain the sac. therefore you will have to install a valve ahead of the draining tsunami pump to stop the water pressure from pushing through the pump. you will then have to turn those valves each time you want to drain your sac. that is why i went with jabsco ballast puppies, they act as a check valve and are a serviceable pump.

Although the Tsunami is not serviceable, it is extremely easy to replace the impeller cartridge. It'll cost you almost as much as a brand new pump (only about $25), but I would think that it would be easier - and possibly even cheaper - than servicing a Jabsco.

I did have that valve setup and have since just installed a check valve in it's place and routed the tube up as far under the gunnel as possible. I have no auto-drain issues and no need to open/close a ball valve. I like that the Tsunami is passive and allows water to push through. I don't have a vent line, so when the bag fills, it pushes water out the drain. That way, I know when it is full. When I empty it, because of the check valve on the drain, it completely empties the bag, including any air. Therefore, the next time I fill it, there is no air in the sac that needs to be vented. I just have to use the pump to empty the sac once at the beginning of the season to get all of the air out, and I am set for the whole season (unless I need to clean the bag mid-season, of course)! I also have a check valve in the fill line to avoid draining that way. So, when the boat is on the lift, there isn't anything opening that check valve so air can't get into the sac passively through the fill line either.

I do agree that the Tsunami is a bit of a pain to install because of the 1-1/8" threaded inlet. I just used the straight adapter from Attwood that allows for the connection of a 1" hose. I connected a short piece of hose from that to a 1" barb to thread brass elbow that is connected to a ball valve that is connected to the thru hull (for the fill). The three hose connections - outlet of pump and then the 2 for the inlet - have double hose clamps since these are all below the water line. For the drain pump, I used the Quik-Lok adapters (W746 & W733) and then did the same thing running a short piece of 1" hose from the W746 to the Attwood straight adapter connected to the pump.

I am extremely happy with the setup. It is very easy to use, I don't have any auto-fill or auto-drain issues and is VERY fast to fill and drain.

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Tao of Wake

the jabsco pumps are also the most cost effective way to go cuz they almost never go bad and the impeller inside is about 28 dollars. so most of your cost is upfront. the jabsco pumps are the way to go. less wiring and less plumming. less pain in the a--......

But considerably slower. I have only had my Tsunamis for a couple of years, but I have heard others that have had them for many more years with no issues. I had heard of the Jabsco seizing up fairly frequently if they are allowed to run dry. I often forget to turn off my aerator pumps when the sac/tank is empty - the Tsunamis and the stock Pirhanas - with no ill effects. Yes, they are a bit more work to install since you need both a fill and drain pump per bag, but they are much easier to operate and maintain from that point. I was already running a wire from one pump to the dash; it wasn't that much work to pull another one through at the same time. Plumbing was double the work, but that was a one-time thing.

I assume you have your Jabsco plumbed to a thru-hull on the bottom of the boat. How do you know when the bag is empty other than having to watch the bag itself (rather than watching the water come out the side of the boat, which you don't have)? I like that I can hear the water pumping out and know when the sac/tank is empty. But even if I do forget, it won't hurt the pump.

My vote is still for the Tsunami pumps for speed and "forgetful forgiveness"

EDIT: Also, how are they cost effective? They are about $200. I have 2 Tsunami pumps where you have one Jabsco. My cost was a whopping $70 for both. I could buy almost three of those setups for your cost. I seriously doubt you will get 3 times longer life than I. And remember, that unless the housing breaks, I would only need to replace the cartridge, which is only $25. Also, I was only able to find one source for a replacement impeller for the Jabsco, and it was $45. I could replace the entire pump for that and still have $10 in my pocket.

Edited by kernaltao

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Stanley Wheelhouse

But considerably slower. I have only had my Tsunamis for a couple of years, but I have heard others that have had them for many more years with no issues. I had heard of the Jabsco seizing up fairly frequently if they are allowed to run dry. I often forget to turn off my aerator pumps when the sac/tank is empty - the Tsunamis and the stock Pirhanas - with no ill effects. Yes, they are a bit more work to install since you need both a fill and drain pump per bag, but they are much easier to operate and maintain from that point. I was already running a wire from one pump to the dash; it wasn't that much work to pull another one through at the same time. Plumbing was double the work, but that was a one-time thing.

I assume you have your Jabsco plumbed to a thru-hull on the bottom of the boat. How do you know when the bag is empty other than having to watch the bag itself (rather than watching the water come out the side of the boat, which you don't have)? I like that I can hear the water pumping out and know when the sac/tank is empty. But even if I do forget, it won't hurt the pump.

My vote is still for the Tsunami pumps for speed and "forgetful forgiveness"

EDIT: Also, how are they cost effective? They are about $200. I have 2 Tsunami pumps where you have one Jabsco. My cost was a whopping $70 for both. I could buy almost three of those setups for your cost. I seriously doubt you will get 3 times longer life than I. And remember, that unless the housing breaks, I would only need to replace the cartridge, which is only $25. Also, I was only able to find one source for a replacement impeller for the Jabsco, and it was $45. I could replace the entire pump for that and still have $10 in my pocket.

http://media.wakemak...tem-680x496.jpg

The link above is the design i used. I have a total of four Jabsco pumps. my cost on them 800 bens. I have had those same 4 jabsco pumps running on the old system that was in my boat. i have run those pumps for two and a half years without any issue. I have had tsuamis die out or lose pressure in as little as 6 months. ( we have been at this a while) This system design was very easy and is very effective. i have one hose that both drains and fills each of my four sacs. By the way, my largest sac holds 1600++ pounds of water. the pressure mounted on the drains of that sac when we are surfing would blow right through those tsunami pumps. the only way to stop it would be a valve of some kind that you would have to open in order to let the sack drain. i know first hand because we tried it that way once. The other thing is my puppies are serviceable right in the engine compartment. nice and easy when the time comes. we have quite a few impellers give me your address and i will send you a few at my cost. i said the jabsco system was better. not cheaper.Whistling.gif

Edited by Rhino

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Ian30

piranha 800's are on sale right now at west marine for 35.99 if that helps you decide.

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BIG JAY

But considerably slower. I have only had my Tsunamis for a couple of years, but I have heard others that have had them for many more years with no issues. I had heard of the Jabsco seizing up fairly frequently if they are allowed to run dry. I often forget to turn off my aerator pumps when the sac/tank is empty - the Tsunamis and the stock Pirhanas - with no ill effects. Yes, they are a bit more work to install since you need both a fill and drain pump per bag, but they are much easier to operate and maintain from that point. I was already running a wire from one pump to the dash; it wasn't that much work to pull another one through at the same time. Plumbing was double the work, but that was a one-time thing.

I assume you have your Jabsco plumbed to a thru-hull on the bottom of the boat. How do you know when the bag is empty other than having to watch the bag itself (rather than watching the water come out the side of the boat, which you don't have)? I like that I can hear the water pumping out and know when the sac/tank is empty. But even if I do forget, it won't hurt the pump.

My vote is still for the Tsunami pumps for speed and "forgetful forgiveness"

EDIT: Also, how are they cost effective? They are about $200. I have 2 Tsunami pumps where you have one Jabsco. My cost was a whopping $70 for both. I could buy almost three of those setups for your cost. I seriously doubt you will get 3 times longer life than I. And remember, that unless the housing breaks, I would only need to replace the cartridge, which is only $25. Also, I was only able to find one source for a replacement impeller for the Jabsco, and it was $45. I could replace the entire pump for that and still have $10 in my pocket.

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BIG JAY

the way i did rhino's is one through hole for each pump a "Y" fitting and added a drain like the stock malibu drains. On Rhino's 1600++++ port rear sac we have 2 jabsco pumps filling it. fills in about 5 mins. and drains. each sac has an overflow line on it to maximize the sac load and allows the air to exit from the sac. the link he put on here is the system i installed. we added a few things here and there on it. but it is the best working and longest lasting system i have installed on a boat and as long as its used correctly will never give anyone any problems. :rockon:

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Stanley Wheelhouse

Rockon.gifMy pumps will fill my sacs every bit as fast as your tsunamis. in fact i will bet you faster. my pumps are positive displacement pumps which means they will explode a sac. when the tsunamis are filling a near full sac the amount of back pressure the pump has to over come increases fill times.

my sac is done draining when there aint no more pee coming out of the side! as i do have drains for each pump. therefore Big Jay drilled four new holes in my rig. each of those holes is a drain. we also drilled two additional thru hulls. so two of my jabscos have their own thru hulls which make them very fast.

Edited by Rhino

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Chia

Rockon.gifMy pumps will fill my sacs every bit as fast as your tsunamis. in fact i will bet you faster. my pumps are positive displacement pumps which means they will explode a sac. when the tsunamis are filling a near full sac the amount of back pressure the pump has to over come increases fill times.

my sac is done draining when there aint no more pee coming out of the side! as i do have drains for each pump. therefore Big Jay drilled four new holes in my rig. each of those holes is a drain. we also drilled two additional thru hulls. so two of my jabscos have their own thru hulls which make them very fast.

don't mean to be disagreeable here but the ballast puppy is rated at 8gpm (480gph) compared to the usual 800gph stock aerator or 1200gph tsunami's.

You have chosen to fill your bags thru the bottom which would incur some back pressure on an aerator pump, however most, if not all installs of using an aerator pump fill the sac thru the top (no back pressure).

A separate aerator pump is used in the bottom plug for draining.

from your picture, i am not sure how water does not go out the overflow while filling? ok, the pump is pulling the water and it is on the downstream side of the "Y" used for the drain. Why do you have a one way valve on the drain line.

impeller_pump_system-680x496.jpg

Edited by Cervelo

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BIG JAY

you have a one way valve one the drain line that way you have no air commin in through the system while the pump is filling the bag. :whistle: with the two check valves it always allows there to be water in the lines which keeps it always primed. :rockon: and the vent is on the top of the sac. i know everyone wonders why jabsco and not a higher GPH pump. well does it really make a diffrence in a few GPH. HELL NO. the nice thing about the jabsco ballast puppy pumps is no valves and no self draining, longer lasting and worth ever $$$$$$$$$$$ you will pay. :rockon::rofl:

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Chia

you have a one way valve one the drain line that way you have no air commin in through the system while the pump is filling the bag. :whistle: with the two check valves it always allows there to be water in the lines which keeps it always primed. :rockon: and the vent is on the top of the sac. i know everyone wonders why jabsco and not a higher GPH pump. well does it really make a diffrence in a few GPH. HELL NO. the nice thing about the jabsco ballast puppy pumps is no valves and no self draining, longer lasting and worth ever $$$$$$$$$$$ you will pay. :rockon::rofl:

i see, the one way valve in the vent line prevents the jabsco from sucking air instead of water.

i have no problem with your design, but there is nothing wrong with an aerator pump design either. An aerator design does not have valves, and with a vented loop there is no self draining. cost of an aerator pump is 1/6 that of a ballast puppy and pumps 40% more water.

Whatever sinks your boat.

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Tao of Wake
<br><img src="http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/Rockon.gif">My pumps will fill my sacs every bit as fast as your tsunamis. in fact i will bet you faster. my pumps are positive displacement pumps which means they will explode a sac. when the tsunamis are filling a near full sac the amount of back pressure the pump has to over come increases fill times. <br><br>my sac is done draining when there aint no more pee coming out of the side! as i do have drains for each pump. therefore Big Jay drilled four new holes in my rig. each of those holes is a drain. we also drilled two additional thru hulls. so two of my jabscos have their own thru hulls which make them very fast.<br>
<br><br>I doubt it. Since I am filling from the top of the sac (like Cervelo mentioned), I have no back pressure. I have timed my fill and drain, and they are both 5 min (750#/90 gal). That is with a single pump (for each function - fill and drain). According to an earlier post, you have two pumps which total 960GPH. The best you could get to fill a 750#/90gal sac would be over 5 1/2 min (no restrictions at all). I am not arguing that the difference isn't that great; it's just that mine is faster. <img src="http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/Whistling.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=":whistle:"><br><br>EDIT: I just re-read your post and you said that you have 4 pumps for 4 sacs. I assume you have 1 pump per sac. Therefore, you would only have 480GPH to fill/drain each sac. The best you could get would be 11 min to fill/drain each vs the 5 min I get.<br><br>In an earlier post, BIG JAY indicated that this was a simpler install because of less wiring and plumbing. After seeing the setup, there is not any less than mine. I do have one more check valve, but I have one less thru hull (no vent). I did have a vent at one time, but I just teed off the drain with another check valve. It worked great but I found it was unnecessary. Because of the check valve in the drain line, when I drain the sac, it draws every bit of air out as well. So the next time I fill, there is no air in the sac and the water vents (when it is full) out the drain line.<br><br>I am sure we will continue to disagree on the best setup. I still contend that mine is the simplest to install & operate, fastest and cheapest (initially and over the life of the system). The only challenge I have heard so far is that the Tsunami pumps don't last. I have read of both Tsunami and Ballast Puppy pumps not lasting, and I have also read of both lasting for years. I have been running mine for the past 2 summers with no issues, and I have run them dry frequently and run them often. <br><br>Again, even if I have to replace each cartridge 6 times, I would come out cheaper: $70 for initial cost + $25/cartridge (total of 12 cartridges) = $370 vs the $400 you spent on the puppies. That means that your pumps (with NO impeller replacements or other repairs) would need to last 6.6 times longer just to break even! I have 2 summers on mine; do you have 13 summers on yours?<br><br>EDIT: Because you just have 1 pump per sac, the ROI would be 2.6x rather than 6.6x.<br><br>Rhino & BIG JAY - I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way. I see this as just friendly "jabbing" and a good discussion regarding the two options we have installed. I really think both solutions are great with pluses and minuses for either. Edited by kernaltao

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BIG JAY

like you said its all in good discussion and b'sin around. everyone is going to do it there way. just throwing out tips and thoughts. i give it another week and someone will want advice on how to add extra ballast. its a never ending toppic.

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old skool malibu

Yes the pirahna and tsunami are impellar style and you don't have to worry about priming as long as they are below the water line, this is not the case with aerator style pumps.

The only issue with the tsunami 1200 is the fitting size, it's a pain in the butt when plumbing it in with all the reducers you need to make it work from valve to pump and pump to hose. I would use 800's for ease of use.

If you screw the drain pump to the back of the bag it can crush the housing of the pump resulting in leaks and damaged pumps, seen it before. If you can 90 off the back bottom of the sac to the pump you'll be better off.

Thanks 06. I think you mean the Pirahna and Tsunami are aerator style not impellar style. The Jabsco is impellar style. The stock pumps in the new BU are Pirahna which is what i think I may go with as they are simpler to install and you dont have to worry about adapters. I like the suggestion about moving the pump away from the back of the bag so it wont break. Just to clarify with these style pumps to properly drain I should have the pump at the bottom of the bag or below so there is pressure on the pump allowing it to drain properly? For fill I want to have the hose connected to the top of the bag allowing it to fill easier? I would locate the fill pump off the stock drain in the engine compartmet and then the drain somewhere near the rear bag - any ideas where a good place would be so it is out of harms way? As there is concern about autodrain one could argue that the stock system would also autodrain, so are their check valves on the stock system then? Did you add any check valves to your system?

Edited by old skool malibu

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Stanley Wheelhouse

i see, the one way valve in the vent line prevents the jabsco from sucking air instead of water.

i have no problem with your design, but there is nothing wrong with an aerator pump design either. An aerator design does not have valves, and with a vented loop there is no self draining. cost of an aerator pump is 1/6 that of a ballast puppy and pumps 40% more water.

Whatever sinks your boat.

It may cost less money but the you have to understand that pumps are positive displacement and though they are rated at less gph than the tsunamis they have more pumping power.

yesterday we took the crew out. i flipped the switches at 102pm. by 113pm the 1600+lb sac, 400 tube under my observes seat and of course rear left center and front factory were full and we were surfing with no visible fats sacs and the wave according to Wes who road it was LEGIT. when we were done i fired the boat up set the speed at 13 mph and hit the drains. we were empty in less than 15 minutes.

now i dont care what kind of pumps you have or prefer, that is bad a** and you cant argue with that!

an aerator pump would auto drain on my big sack if i did not put in a turnable drain valve to stop it. i am speaking from tried and true experience here.

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Stanley Wheelhouse

Thanks 06. I think you mean the Pirahna and Tsunami are aerator style not impellar style. The Jabsco is impellar style. The stock pumps in the new BU are Pirahna which is what i think I may go with as they are simpler to install and you dont have to worry about adapters. I like the suggestion about moving the pump away from the back of the bag so it wont break. Just to clarify with these style pumps to properly drain I should have the pump at the bottom of the bag or below so there is pressure on the pump allowing it to drain properly? For fill I want to have the hose connected to the top of the bag allowing it to fill easier? I would locate the fill pump off the stock drain in the engine compartmet and then the drain somewhere near the rear bag - any ideas where a good place would be so it is out of harms way? As there is concern about autodrain one could argue that the stock system would also autodrain, so are their check valves on the stock system then? Did you add any check valves to your system?

if your tsunami pump that acts as your drain pump has any water pressure pushing through it from the bag it will push through the tsunami pump and auto drain. you have two options. one put in a turnable valve ahead of your drain pump. two plumb your drain line to drain out on your non surfside as this would cause the water pressure to have to push up hill and may prevent the auto drain issue.

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old skool malibu

if your tsunami pump that acts as your drain pump has any water pressure pushing through it from the bag it will push through the tsunami pump and auto drain. you have two options. one put in a turnable valve ahead of your drain pump. two plumb your drain line to drain out on your non surfside as this would cause the water pressure to have to push up hill and may prevent the auto drain issue.

Just curious how Malibu deals with this possible auto drain issue on the stock system? As there is no turnable valve I assume that the drain is high enough above the ballast tank that it will not autodrain?

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