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Michigan boarder

What's the best way to long-line barefoot?

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Michigan boarder

AreaMike's videos have me fired up. I tried a long-line deep water start a couple of times, but was unsuccessful. I gave up twice and just went off the boom. I haven't tried the step off method. I tumble-up from the boom with a 6' line, and have gotten pretty good at that. But what's the best way to get going on the long line?

I mostly want to learn becuase we have a long and narrow lake. The boom is on the port side, and to make the tight turn at each end I have to really "cut", which sprays the heck out of the boat dousing the back seat and engine and closing in on the windshield. So I usually drop and then point towards the other end and get back up.

This is on the Echelon, with my wife driving, and 3 kids riding along.

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jk13

When we had our old outboards with no holeshot but plenty of top speed, we've had guys sit on a kneeboard until the boat planes, then stand up. Those same guys soon figured out how to use their rear end to do the same once my brother got his MC.

Those videos got me going too, very nice AreaMike!

Too bad we won't be out for a month and a half or more over here.

Are you close to wide open barefooting? AreaMike's boat seems to be barely breaking a sweat with that huge motor.

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JasonK

Would you be doing the turn on the long line? That can be fun if you don't have enough control to stay away from the shore. A sharp turn sends me way outside when footing, unless i control it.

I kicked-off for years. Now I deep water start. Kick-off is quicker (time to get footin), and quicker to learn. Learing the kick-off way I fell 1/4 less than learning the deepwater start.

Deepwater start takes some time to learn. And it's harder to drive for! That's part of the problem. The driver needs to have the process down pat, or you will struggle.

If you try deepwater starts, get dense foam/rubber floor padding (like for a gym) and put it in your barefoot suit. It makes it so much easier.

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areamike

I knew them videos would fire someone up. I like watching them in the Winter. It keeps me reminded of my form etc.

Are you comfortable on the 6' ext. off the boom doing deep waters and tumble ups? A tumble up is actually more difficult than a straight deep water start. Plus in the end, you end up in deep water position before you stand. IMO, learning a step off was much more difficult than learning deep starts.

Here's my advice on the long line. First, get over the fact that you are 70+ feet behind the boat. It is no different than the boom (IMO).

First thing as you are getting ready for the start, I never ever cross my ankles over the rope. I simply put my right foot arch across the rope and lay my left foot on top of the right foot.

Once you are ready, holler "GO BOAT!" and wait. Wait for what you ask? For the boat to go. Do not immediately slam your head back into the water and wait for the boat to go. Once you feel that initial pull from the boat take a quick deep breath and put your head back and arch your back a little, while keeping your body flat like you are laying on a plank. I almost like to push my head back a little more like I'm trying to stick my head down into the mud at the bottom of the lake.

Important. Keep the handle nice and tucked into your lower abdomen. do not let your arms straighten way out in front of you. Keeping the center of gravity in the center of your body helps you stay in control more.

Once you start to plane out, sit up and ride on your butt for a while. All the time, keeping your feet on the rope in the initial position I mentioned a minute ago.

Once the boat is up to speed, bring your feet off the rope. DO NOT PUT THEM IN YET! Hover them above the water. Keep your knees close together and bring them up towards your chest. Keep your feet a little less than shoulder length apart.

Keep in mind, you still have your rope handle in your gut area. The actual rope should be between your knees/legs now. Slowly place the heels of your feet in the water, do not force them in. While you do that, begin to let your arms straighten out in front of you. If you do it correctly, the physics of your arms straightening out will actually aid in your standing up. Once you are up there's no looking back.

Here's a video of me on the boom doing deep starts. It might help give you an idea. I usually do tumble ups on the boom, but had a broken rib at the time and had no strength to pull myself around.

Edited by areamike

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areamike

Would you be doing the turn on the long line? That can be fun if you don't have enough control to stay away from the shore. A sharp turn sends me way outside when footing, unless i control it.

I kicked-off for years. Now I deep water start. Kick-off is quicker (time to get footin), and quicker to learn. Learing the kick-off way I fell 1/4 less than learning the deepwater start.

Deepwater start takes some time to learn. And it's harder to drive for! That's part of the problem. The driver needs to have the process down pat, or you will struggle.

If you try deepwater starts, get dense foam/rubber floor padding (like for a gym) and put it in your barefoot suit. It makes it so much easier.

Jason is right on. DRIVER DRIVER DRIVER.

Never ever have them just throw the hammer down. Unless you've got a dog of a boat. Behind my boat, I barely have to give it initial throttle out of the hole. Once I'm out of the hole, I then accelerate firmly but not overly firm. A nice steady pull is always good and maintaining that consistency.

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Michigan boarder

Glad I asked!

Mistake #1 - I told her hammer down when trying deep water. My tumble up from the boom is WOT 'till we are on plane and running 4k in RPM, then she holds it there (which on the Echelon is about 39-40mph). I stay on my stomach as she's doing that process and roll around once the water feels "hard" enough to support my lower back and I'll have a couple of seconds before planting my feet. Right about then she's backing off and holding the throttle steady at 4k. You just get a feeling for the water, and know when it's ready. So from the long line, should I tell her to start to pull me up like a wakeboarder, just some basic throttle at first and then quickly up to speed? Bear with me, last year was my first time barefooting with my first summer of a DD boat. My wife is spot on pulling me on a board, and will quickly learn to pull a footer once I can pass on some pointers.

Yes, I'm very comfortable on the boom tumble up. Not at all with the deepwater-boom start. That is probably related to the throttle issue described above.

I am 100% doing what Mike described (in very good detail!) on the deepwater. So the issue must be the throttle. It felt hard to stay in position getting on plane, and was quickly wearing me out.

Yes, I'd be doing the turn on the long line. If I could even swap the boom to the other side I'd be able to make the turn (ECI boom), but it won't work that way with the contour & hole positions. If it seemed too drastic I figured on the long line I could drop to my butt and slide thru it, then stand back up. Last year I was crossing wakes from other boats while on the boom. I'd see the waves coming, drop back into 3 point, bounce 6 times, then stand back up. Felt like a pro.

Throttle is pretty close to WOT. My wife backs off a bit, says she thinks I'm going to fast. It was funny when I first started footing and she was playing with the speed, it's very scary to feel your feet start to sink into the water at 34mph (Hey...HEY!! More thottle!!!)

So, the lesson is change the throttle approach and get comfy with deep water on the boom, then apply that to the long line. I will also try the step-off too (because I am impatient).

Lastly, as if it's not enough to barefoot with a broken rib, it seemed like a good time to do toe holds?? You da' man!!

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areamike

Lastly, as if it's not enough to barefoot with a broken rib, it seemed like a good time to do toe holds?? You da' man!!

Dale Hollow guys trip. I was prolly half drunk too.

How much do you weigh? Footing speed can usually be determined by weight divided by 10 then add 20

Example. I am 165-170 lb = 170/10+20 = 37mph

My good two foot barefooting speed is usually around 38. I like 39 though. I have size 10.5 feet so I like a little more speed. I have actually footed at 28 mph before though, just to see if I could do it. Crazy.gif

Sounds like you are down to boat driver. I would not have her ease into it like a wakeboard pull. Maybe just a little more throttle than that, but by no means should she put the hammer down on ya. Just have her roll into it nice a steady. Someone who can give good pulls while driving a boat should be able to fly a kite fairly well too. It's a lot about feel.

When you tumble up on the boom, once you spin around can you sit there for a few in the 3-point position before standing up? That is also good practice for getting comfortable behind the boat. If you check that one video of me in that other topic doing a long line tumble up, the boat was barely moving. I'll bet the driver was only doing about 20mph when I spun around.

--A rule of thumb we use on tumble ups on the boom. When that spray from the side of the boat starts to hit you, it's time to tumble.

Here's an ok video of a few tumble ups. You'll notice on the first one I wait for a few after tumbling before planting my feet.

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MizzouMike

Nice advice...I too learned on an underpowered boat standing up off a kneeboard probably 20 years ago. Learned my next trick last year stepping off a slalom ski.. I have tried long line deeping up probably 15 times and made it once or twice. My problem is I never feel comfortable skipping accross the water. I am reluctant to take the step into the water when I am already not comfortable.....I did read some good pointers I hope to try when the lake thaws....

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Michigan boarder

Dale Hollow guys trip. I was prolly half drunk too.

How much do you weigh? Footing speed can usually be determined by weight divided by 10 then add 20

Example. I am 165-170 lb = 170/10+20 = 37mph

My good two foot barefooting speed is usually around 38. I like 39 though. I have size 10.5 feet so I like a little more speed. I have actually footed at 28 mph before though, just to see if I could do it. Crazy.gif

Sounds like you are down to boat driver. I would not have her ease into it like a wakeboard pull. Maybe just a little more throttle than that, but by no means should she put the hammer down on ya. Just have her roll into it nice a steady. Someone who can give good pulls while driving a boat should be able to fly a kite fairly well too. It's a lot about feel.

When you tumble up on the boom, once you spin around can you sit there for a few in the 3-point position before standing up? That is also good practice for getting comfortable behind the boat. If you check that one video of me in that other topic doing a long line tumble up, the boat was barely moving. I'll bet the driver was only doing about 20mph when I spun around.

--A rule of thumb we use on tumble ups on the boom. When that spray from the side of the boat starts to hit you, it's time to tumble.

Here's an ok video of a few tumble ups. You'll notice on the first one I wait for a few after tumbling before planting my feet.

I'm the same weight as you, but size 9 to 9.5 shoe. 38/39 just feels slow, like I'm plowing and the edge of the water is sharp into the arch of my foot, just below the big toe ball. A little faster and I feel like I'm on top of the water and the edge is further down towards my heel, and not as sharp. It just feels a whole lot better, and I rarely wipe out, even when there's a little wind chop. Last year I footed once at 2 in the afternoon with boat traffic and actually made a couple runs up and down the lake. But man, that's some work. The only window of opportunity I had. then again, my speedo's are whacked, leaking tubes, etc., so we are going off of RPM's. Who knows if that's accurate, that's the original prop that was re-worked at least once by the previous owner.

Thanks for the advice on the throttle, that's what I'm going with. It's funny you mention the kite, we flew kites on our lake on the ice last Saturday, it was a blast. One was a huge bi-plane, a gift from grandma. And my wife did well with them, so there ya' go.

Yes, I can cruise along in 3 point all day. And now that you mention it, I think I do the same, when the spray hits me I tumble up and away from it, just becuase it's annoying. Not quite as comfortable as you appear, but getting there.

For me the long line is about making it easier to foot. Now we do our water stuff, and I usually go first and then pull everyone else. Then at the end I bring the boat back in and set up the boom, then she pulls me. Well that's great if it's 85 out and nobody is hungry, but half the time they are cold, all the towels are wet, they are ready to move onto something else, and there's me going back to the house for the boom. If I could just hop in the water, throw me the rope, it would make it go a whole lot better.

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Woodski

Some really good advice on long line posted above. A couple of points that might help: Acceleration, don't do a hammer down WOT, that sends a prop bump back and you will get air going over it (I have the same boat), so a nice progressive firm depression on the throttle. You might look in to testing your boat w/o the spark arrestor, mine robbed about 200 rpm off the top end. Footer, you might want to try to cheek out in to the dish, it might make it easier compared to standing in the prop wash, this will also force you to be patient which will help. Airboom/Skylon/Tower, hook the rope to one of those, it will give you a little extra lift, a little closer to the boom/handle geometry, although I really find it more noticible for long line tumble turns. The bigget thing I see long line is lack of patience, you really have to wait longer than you think to stand up. Areamike's description will tend to force that discipline. The driver can also send you in to the dish if you struggle with that with a quick twitch on the wheel. You might try the shoeski's or even a pair of tennis shoes as a practice tool. Good luck, have fun and wear nose plugs, your wife will appreciate that when sleeping! Also, for extra padding, put a pair of barefoot shorts under the barefoot suit.

Another note, the difference is the long line reduces the leverage you have as the short rope on the boom really allows you to be sloppy and use the boom (even with a short handle rope) for vertical and lateral leverage. What is needed on the long line is to be symmetrical, that is to make sure you do a very nice slow even foot plant with both feet at the same time just as Mike describes.

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areamike

If you feel like you are plowing, you probably are. It's all about finding that glide position. Your heels should actually be slightly behind your knees. If you are riding on your heels and the water line has moved down your foot substantially, then that is an indication of plowing.

Here's a couple good pics to give you an idea. First pic to the left is perfect glide position. Next pic is more of a plowing position that you would use in rough water. If you have some days of glass water, I recommend getting directly on the boom, no shortline. And working on your posture and glide. Here's a good article by Keith St. Onge if you want to read it.

http://www.barefootski.com/files/pdf/kso_instruction.pdf

P.S. Get a cheap handheld GPS for your boat. I use one exclusively anymore and never even look at my speedos. Garmin GPS72 is what I use.

post-1529-12659829808002_thumb.jpg

post-1529-12659829943095_thumb.jpg

Edited by areamike

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areamike

I forgot to add. My form and barefooting skills dramatically improved for me simply by watching tons of videos of good footers over and over and really studying their form and technique. Thumbup.gif

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Michigan boarder

Some really good advice on long line posted above. A couple of points that might help: Acceleration, don't do a hammer down WOT, that sends a prop bump back and you will get air going over it (I have the same boat), so a nice progressive firm depression on the throttle. You might look in to testing your boat w/o the spark arrestor, mine robbed about 200 rpm off the top end. Footer, you might want to try to cheek out in to the dish, it might make it easier compared to standing in the prop wash, this will also force you to be patient which will help. Airboom/Skylon/Tower, hook the rope to one of those, it will give you a little extra lift, a little closer to the boom/handle geometry, although I really find it more noticible for long line tumble turns. The bigget thing I see long line is lack of patience, you really have to wait longer than you think to stand up. Areamike's description will tend to force that discipline. The driver can also send you in to the dish if you struggle with that with a quick twitch on the wheel. You might try the shoeski's or even a pair of tennis shoes as a practice tool. Good luck, have fun and wear nose plugs, your wife will appreciate that when sleeping! Also, for extra padding, put a pair of barefoot shorts under the barefoot suit.

Another note, the difference is the long line reduces the leverage you have as the short rope on the boom really allows you to be sloppy and use the boom (even with a short handle rope) for vertical and lateral leverage. What is needed on the long line is to be symmetrical, that is to make sure you do a very nice slow even foot plant with both feet at the same time just as Mike describes.

That's right, I forgot about that bump! Each time I tried a long line tumble up I started porpoising and had to bail, it probably started with hitting that prop bump.

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areamike

That's right, I forgot about that bump! Each time I tried a long line tumble up I started porpoising and had to bail, it probably started with hitting that prop bump.

More likely is you were going too fast if you started porpoising.

Edited by areamike

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Michigan boarder

More likely is you were going too fast if you started porpoising.

Seriously? Wow, I thought the opposite. Again, it points back to throttle control. Maybe it's just that we are so used to operating an I/O with a 2.3L. This is all very good stuff, and I appreciate the help. I hope to have the boat in the water in early April, only about 2 months away!

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Sullivan

Wow, this has me all amped up. I think I'm going to head out and get the boat fired up and ready to go for this weekend. Never barefooted longline either, but I'm going to do it if its the last thing I do.

Cheers!

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MalibuNation

Wow, this has me all amped up. I think I'm going to head out and get the boat fired up and ready to go for this weekend. Never barefooted longline either, but I'm going to do it if its the last thing I do.

Cheers!

Me too.

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MizzouMike

More likely is you were going too fast if you started porpoising.

Very Good to know Rockon.gif

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J Warren

Interesting info - will pass on to some of my more energetic friends next time we are on the water.

Saw the note about the GPS from Mike. "Get a cheap handheld GPS for your boat." How long have you had yours - where did you buy it? We definitely need one.

Thanks

Jane

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areamike

Interesting info - will pass on to some of my more energetic friends next time we are on the water.

Saw the note about the GPS from Mike. "Get a cheap handheld GPS for your boat." How long have you had yours - where did you buy it? We definitely need one.

Thanks

Jane

Garmin GPS 72. I've had it a couple years. Found a good used one on ebay for about 50 bucks.

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J Warren

Garmin GPS 72. I've had it a couple years. Found a good used one on ebay for about 50 bucks.

Thanks!

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