They're droppin like flies!

[Sixball]

I do not disagree a low cost ski boat would be nice for many people. I just think it would be very hard for someone to produce the boat and make enough profit to stay in business. We just don't have enough pure ski boats being sold. Just think of all the bull one needs to put up with. Government rules, law suits, Its not a friendly business atmosphere out there.

How many boats out there are being used for skiing only?

I elected to go with a new boat. I think I will own it for 10 or more years and yes my boat is used 95% for skiing. I also ordered very few options and the boat still looks better than new and will likely as long as I own it.

How about a small turbo diesel? It will be hard to fuel on most inland lakes.

I also made that decision prior to the economy bubble burst!

[lxirod]

As I see it, it seems to me things are getting worse. Most businesses that were able to hang are no longer able to hang on any longer. The banks and lenders are at fault for getting for starting all of this, but it's the media and consumers that are keeping it going. Everyone has there a$$hole hat on now days and expects a deal when they walk into a store. Its like all retail stores are like car dealerships. Businesses are having to lower prices to survive and there is little to no profit margin. So think about it next time you walk into a store and try and negotiate a better deal, your only helping things get worse. You save a couple bucks, but when everyone is doing it, those couple bucks add up making it hard for businesses to stay open.

[ed obermeier]

As I see it, it seems to me things are getting worse. Most businesses that were able to hang are no longer able to hang on any longer. The banks and lenders are at fault for getting for starting all of this, but it's the media and consumers that are keeping it going. Everyone has there a$$hole hat on now days and expects a deal when they walk into a store. Its like all retail stores are like car dealerships. Businesses are having to lower prices to survive and there is little to no profit margin. So think about it next time you walk into a store and try and negotiate a better deal, your only helping things get worse. You save a couple bucks, but when everyone is doing it, those couple bucks add up making it hard for businesses to stay open.

I agree with that lxirod. The other side of the coin however is that when things were smokin' the dealers (I mostly mean car dealers and real estate salespeople here but perhaps some boat dealers too) acted like they were doing you a favor to sell you anything; if you want it this is the price, if not the next guy through the door will take it. Things were moving fast so if you wanted to buy something you paid what they wanted or did without, they didn't care and weren't about to negotiate a "fair" price for you because they knew they could stick the next guy. They didn't mind sticking you in the a$$ for a fat profit then but now it's come around to bite them and they're whining about it. Can't say I feel too sorry for them.

Having said that, I look at it this way. I don't work for nothing and I don't expect anyone else to work for nothing either. A fair profit margin is to the benefit of all involved - you get a reasonable deal, the dealer makes enough to stay in business and make a decent living. The problem is always determining the definition of "fair". When I buy/sell anything that's my guiding principal, trying to make sure it's fair to all involved. Easier to do these days when you can do so much research on the Net. But you have to do the research.

Ed

[Malibudude]

Rod,

You have to remember things have culminated to make matters worse in CA then just about anywhere else in the nation. But to say the lenders are the only ones at fault isn’t 100% accurate. People who accepted loans knowing or didn’t do their homework are equally at fault.

The whole landscape of the way businesses operate will/is changing whether we’ve all learned a lesson remains to be seen.

[wakeboy]

I agree Malibudude. However, it is these people getting loans for boats, houses, and cars that they can't afford that will also help dig this country out of the recession. These are the poeple that will take their bonus or their tax refund and spend it instead of saving it. The increased spending by consumers is what this country needs.

[ed obermeier]

I agree Malibudude. However, it is these people getting loans for boats, houses, and cars that they can't afford that will also help dig this country out of the recession. These are the poeple that will take their bonus or their tax refund and spend it instead of saving it. The increased spending by consumers is what this country needs.

IF they can't afford them they're just digging the hole deeper, not helping solve the problem. If they're making sensible purchases within their means then yeah, I'd agree with that. Slower, sensible spending is what is needed. Won't solve the problem quickly but will solve it positively without negative side effects. My opinion FWIW.

Ed

Edited February 9, 2010 by ed obermeier

[REW]

IF they can't afford them they're just digging the hole deeper, not helping solve the problem. If they're making sensible purchases within their means then yeah, I'd agree with that. Slower, sensible spending is what is needed. Won't solve the problem quickly but will solve it positively without negative side effects. My opinion FWIW.

Ed

This whole porblem started because people were encouraged to purchase things that they could not afford. It goes back 30+ years with adjustments in the past two administrations that made things worse. In 1999 Andrew Cumo (now prosecuting the banks) was working for the Clinton Administration and made changes to Fanny and Freddie that required at least 50% of the loans they purchased to be subprime. With that and other changes during the Clinton and Bush years the banks were given a green light to make subprime loans, loans with negitive loan to value ratios and other risky venturers. This feeding frenzy led to price increases in housing that were totally unsustainable, iin some areas (CA, AZ, AY, FL) the prices were going up 50+% per year. These states are alos the ones paying the highest price in terms of the economy.

Just think of what you received in the mail. how many refinance offers were you getting prior to the economy blowing up in our faces? How many do you get now? There are a lot of people paying a high price for what the Government encouraged us to do. Some of us will be paying for years even though we didn't over spend. others will pay once now and then well into the future for their indulgences. Lets just hope we all learned a lesson and will keep our spending to what we can afford and not what we want.

Thanks for listning and sorry about any misspellings.

REW

[John723]

I live in Mansfield Ohio. Malibu used to have dealers in Columbus and Cleveland, but are down to one dealer in the entire state. It takes me 2.5 hours, each way, to drop off my boat for service. I have called Malibu several times to try to talk to someone about their dealer network but am always told someone would call me back. It never happens. I understand things are tough, but you do not have to skimp on customer service. Malibu could set up authorized service centers throughout each state. It would be great to discuss this with someone at Malibu, but they, apparently do not want to listen. Anyone else experiencing this problem? I might sell my Malibu and purchase a Nautique!!!

[Koop]

John.......I feel you on the 2.5 hr trip to your dealer. I have the same haul, but mine is by choice. I got a great deal on my "Dream Boat" from a dealer an hour and a half farther away than my closest malibu dealer. I choose to take my boat back to the dealer for service out of loyalty. Hope you get some answers to your questions.

Cheers.....Koop

[Bill_AirJunky]

Many of the states around here only have one dealer anyway. And Nautique has even less.

[WakeGirl]

Threads merged.

[Buwannabe]

This whole porblem started because people were encouraged to purchase things that they could not afford. It goes back 30+ years with adjustments in the past two administrations that made things worse. In 1999 Andrew Cumo (now prosecuting the banks) was working for the Clinton Administration and made changes to Fanny and Freddie that required at least 50% of the loans they purchased to be subprime. With that and other changes during the Clinton and Bush years the banks were given a green light to make subprime loans, loans with negitive loan to value ratios and other risky venturers. This feeding frenzy led to price increases in housing that were totally unsustainable, iin some areas (CA, AZ, AY, FL) the prices were going up 50+% per year. These states are alos the ones paying the highest price in terms of the economy.

Just think of what you received in the mail. how many refinance offers were you getting prior to the economy blowing up in our faces? How many do you get now? There are a lot of people paying a high price for what the Government encouraged us to do. Some of us will be paying for years even though we didn't over spend. others will pay once now and then well into the future for their indulgences. Lets just hope we all learned a lesson and will keep our spending to what we can afford and not what we want.

Thanks for listning and sorry about any misspellings.

REW

Simply not true. Fannie and Freddie only buy conforming loans. The ratings agencies and investment banks created this mess. The biggest harm was allowing leverage to increase to 40x. Take a bunch of lousy loans, repackage them as AAA (that's where the ratings agencies come in) and then leverage the hell out of them led to this mess. There was NO govt agency that forced companies to scream "No Credit? Bad Credit? No Problem! Get the money you DESERVE!!" LOL! Investment banks were BEGGING for this paper. They had customers ready to buy every dime of it. It was easy money... unless you were the last guy holding the bag.

[REW]

Simply not true. Fannie and Freddie only buy conforming loans. The ratings agencies and investment banks created this mess. The biggest harm was allowing leverage to increase to 40x. Take a bunch of lousy loans, repackage them as AAA (that's where the ratings agencies come in) and then leverage the hell out of them led to this mess. There was NO govt agency that forced companies to scream "No Credit? Bad Credit? No Problem! Get the money you DESERVE!!" LOL! Investment banks were BEGGING for this paper. They had customers ready to buy every dime of it. It was easy money... unless you were the last guy holding the bag.

Fanny and Freddie back almost 97% of all loans,

I never said anybody forced the banks to send all the credit memos in the mail but to say all the trouble is from the commericial banks is a narrow minded view of what it took to cause the mess we are now in. A view that will make it harder to actually make the changes necessary to ensure that it doensen't happen again.

REW

[Chia]

Threads merged.

what, from Hot Topics to here??

[WakeGirl]

No, there was another, almost identical thread about Malibu dealers going out of business.