Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
cwkoch

VTX- Wake vs. Diamond Differences

Recommended Posts

cwkoch

I'm looking at ordering a VTX. I'm familiar with the differences in the hull shape, but was hoping for some opinions on some specifics.

When comparing the Diamond Hull vs. the Wake Hull:

1) Is there any differance in the surf wake size/quality? (My guess is no, but hoping someone has experience with both)

2) At 23-26 MPH (hydrofoiling speed :) ) is there much difference in wake size? (Assuming both boats would be setup with full ballast)

3) Is there a difference in ride quality through large chop? (Honestly, the difference in chine shape looks pretty insignificant between the two, but wondering if it makes a difference. My Supra has MAJOR negative chine, which makes it ride horrible in chop)

I'm currently leaning towards a wake hull, thinking it will give me a slightly better ride and slightly larger wake at 25mph. But, I have a few friends that slalom, so the diamond hull would be better for pulling them at slalom speeds. Then again, I'm not buying a boat for them, so I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision in choosing the Wake Hull.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Malibuswany

I'm looking at ordering a VTX. I'm familiar with the differences in the hull shape, but was hoping for some opinions on some specifics.

When comparing the Diamond Hull vs. the Wake Hull:

1) Is there any differance in the surf wake size/quality? (My guess is no, but hoping someone has experience with both)

2) At 23-26 MPH (hydrofoiling speed Smile.gif ) is there much difference in wake size? (Assuming both boats would be setup with full ballast)

3) Is there a difference in ride quality through large chop? (Honestly, the difference in chine shape looks pretty insignificant between the two, but wondering if it makes a difference. My Supra has MAJOR negative chine, which makes it ride horrible in chop)

I'm currently leaning towards a wake hull, thinking it will give me a slightly better ride and slightly larger wake at 25mph. But, I have a few friends that slalom, so the diamond hull would be better for pulling them at slalom speeds. Then again, I'm not buying a boat for them, so I just want to be sure I'm making the right decision in choosing the Wake Hull.

Thanks.

I have the diamond hull on my VTX and don't regret it at all. The boat however being only 20 feet is not a friend to the chop but I find that if I load my ballast then it handles it alot better.

Share this post


Link to post
Malibudude

A couple of links to look at:

VTX Surfin

More info

VTX Which Hull?

Surfing at those speeds won't make much of a difference which hull you have as the "lift" of the diamond hull will occur more at wakeboard speeds. If you want the larger wake for airchairing and surfing imho the wake hull and the fact you don't slalom is the better choice. demo demo demo is the best way to know.

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

I don't have too much experience with Diamond Hulls but I do have a VLX with a Wake Hull. From what your post said it seems like you want a bigger wake at low speeds and higher speeds. It seems the only benefit to getting the diamond hull would be the times your friends want to slalom.

One of my friends growing up always had 2 door coupes. So when it was his turn to drive somewhere it wasn't convenient for us because we were in the back of a small car. However, I would rather sit in the back of his car and let him drive than sit at home and miss out on the fun (of whatever we were up to). He bought coupes because he liked them and it was exactly what he wanted. It wasn't perfect for me as a passenger but I also don't pay his car loan.

Basically what I am saying is that if you want a bigger wake then get the wake hull. Your friends aren't paying your boat loan and I am sure they will be happy to ride behind your boat whether or not you got the hull that they would prefer. Get what you want because you don't want to regret it later on and start playing the "what if" games when it is too late.

Share this post


Link to post
cwkoch

I think I'm leaning more and more towards a Wake Hull, if I order one that is. The local dealer only has Diamond hulls in stock, so if I decided I really like one of his in stock boats, I might settle for the Diamond (although, it doesn't sound like it's really "settling" all that much!).

Another question- I keep hearing about the side spray on the Wake Hulls. Is it a flat, close-to-the-water side spray, or does it come up pretty high off the water? I'm mainly concerned for taking pictures of foiling, doing rolls and gainers out to the side. My Supra throws up a fairly tall side spray, and it tends to affect pictures sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Malibudude

Take a dealer boat out for a demo. Remember your dealer can locate a transfer from another dealership of a wake hull VTX, unless you wanted to order it.

Share this post


Link to post
cwkoch

Take a dealer boat out for a demo. Remember your dealer can locate a transfer from another dealership of a wake hull VTX, unless you wanted to order it.

The water here in Minnesota is slightly solid right now.... No test drives anytime soon.

I have driven them before though. Just don't remember anything about the spray pattern.

Share this post


Link to post
Bill_AirJunky

Another question- I keep hearing about the side spray on the Wake Hulls. Is it a flat, close-to-the-water side spray, or does it come up pretty high off the water? I'm mainly concerned for taking pictures of foiling, doing rolls and gainers out to the side. My Supra throws up a fairly tall side spray, and it tends to affect pictures sometimes.

Hey Charlie,

Remember that your cameraman is sitting like 3' or 4' further forward in the VTX, and it's a taller gunnel & higher seats than the Supra.

There is some side spray, but I never noticed it being outrageous.

Share this post


Link to post
cwkoch

Hey Charlie,

Remember that your cameraman is sitting like 3' or 4' further forward in the VTX, and it's a taller gunnel & higher seats than the Supra.

There is some side spray, but I never noticed it being outrageous.

Good call Bill...

Share this post


Link to post
MalibuTime

...

Another question- I keep hearing about the side spray on the Wake Hulls. Is it a flat, close-to-the-water side spray, or does it come up pretty high off the water? I'm mainly concerned for taking pictures of foiling, doing rolls and gainers out to the side. My Supra throws up a fairly tall side spray, and it tends to affect pictures sometimes.

I don't think you will have any problems getting great shots.

Share this post


Link to post
hattric73

The water here in Minnesota is slightly solid right now.... No test drives anytime soon.

I have driven them before though. Just don't remember anything about the spray pattern.

I am sure Matt will get you whatever you want...

Share this post


Link to post
shot

I have a VTX 08 Wake hull bought as a leftover mainly used for HYDROFOILING Rockon.gif

My main speed was 25 last season but also riding at 23 (new tricks) and 28 for going BIG.

Been mostly foiling without any ballast.

We also using the boat for barefooting, swivelskiing (wife) 14 mph , some wakeboarding and few slalom.

Side spray is not an issue unless you are footing at the boom. Therfore you may use a boom in front of windshield.

The VTX rides very smooth and fits well up to 3 foilers (with 2 towerracks) but you can also put another foil in the bow and 2 in the back easily

For my next VTX I considering a Diamond Hull for better x-over and swivelskiing (wife) but I like to ride and test it before.

BTW check out Brad's offer on his nice VLX.

Edited by shot

Share this post


Link to post
cwkoch

I have a VTX 08 Wake hull bought as a leftover mainly used for HYDROFOILING Rockon.gif

My main speed was 25 last season but also riding at 23 (new tricks) and 28 for going BIG.

Been mostly foiling without any ballast.

We also using the boat for barefooting, swivelskiing (wife) 14 mph , some wakeboarding and few slalom.

Side spray is not an issue unless you are footing at the boom. Therfore you may use a boom in front of windshield.

The VTX rides very smooth and fits well up to 3 foilers (with 2 towerracks) but you can also put another foil in the bow and 2 in the back easily

For my next VTX I considering a Diamond Hull for better x-over and swivelskiing (wife) but I like to ride and test it before.

BTW check out Brad's offer on his nice VLX.

Thanks Heinrich. I'm going with the VTX over a VLX since it's a little more garage friendly.

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

Still don't see why you would consider going with a Diamond Hull if you prefer a bigger wake. Wake hull seems to be the obvious answer and it seems like you will be able to get one.

Side spray on my VLX with a wake hull has never been something I have paid attention to. I am guessing because it never is an issue. I have noticed it on other boats being pretty high, but I think the wakesetters are too high to really be affected by this.

Share this post


Link to post
YJim

I'm looking at ordering a VTX.

Road trip to Minnesota!Thumbup.gif

Share this post


Link to post
old skool malibu

I have the diamond hull on my 09 VTX and the majority if not all Wakesetters my local dealer orders in (Wizard Lake Marine) are diamond hulls. I believe if you search the archives you may come across a "blind test" Malibu did with a bunch of their pro riders and as the story goes all but one preferred the wake produced by the diamond hull. Does anyone have the link or have more specifics on this story? The dealer orders in the diamond hull for the majority of the boats for versatility and if there is any truth to the blind test there is really no difference at wake speeds between the two wakes. I am sure many of you will choose to disagree on that one but my experience with the diamond hull is complete satisfaction. Surfing is amazing, skiing is better than my 89 Sunsetter and wakeboarding is great. I run full ballast including front as well as wedge at 88% so I am completely maxed out. The wake is big with a nice lip but not massive, I am sure being the VTX is a smaller boat you will not get a massive wake with the wake hull, and the difference, if there is one, will be minor. I couldn’t be happier with the diamond hull, but I would suggest when the ice comes off take both out and decide for yourself.

Edited by old skool malibu

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

I am going to have to disagree with that simply because the few times I have riden behind boats with a Diamond Hull I noticed the wake being flatter than the wake hulls wake.

Share this post


Link to post
Kingfish

I've seen the Diamond Vs Wake hull DVD

The test was done with two LSV's. There were five wakeboarders (weekend warrior to to Pro level) one being Randall Harris and two competitive skiers.

They rode behind both boats back to back and were interviewed after their ride was complete.

The wakeboarders other than Randall preferred the diamond and categorized the diamond wake as more peaky, steeper, more kick off the top. The wake hull was considered to have a smoother transition with less pop; none of the boarders made any comment about obvious wake size difference, it was all about wake shape.

The two skiers (mens 2 & 4 competitors) both preferred the diamond and found it much more skiable with less noticable bump and thought the ski cut through it very easy. Neither of the skiers liked the wake hull.

Edited for typos.

Edited by Kingfish

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

I would love to see that DVD, tried to search for it online and couldn't find anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Bill_AirJunky

I rode a SkySki behind two XTIs back to back a few years ago..... a wake hull & a Diamond hull. I couldn't tell the difference.

Typically I can easily notice a bigger or smaller wake. And width is easy to see. What I don't usually see is the wake shape, ie; longer ramp, steeper, etc.

I chalked it up to being on a foil.

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

steepness can be altered too by how you weight the boat. i heard one of the differences between the wake and diamond was the landings are bigger on the wake hull

Share this post


Link to post
Kingfish

Boats were loaded the same, there was no mention of landing zone but one can assume based on the fact it did not get mentioned by any of the riders there was minimal difference, or at least not enough of a difference to make note of.

Personally I've not ridden behind both hulls, not that it would matter as I'm a beginner. Take the comments of those riders on that DVD for what they are; opinions, based on their side by side test with everything the same except the hull designs.

Edit to add: Randall Harris preferred the wake hull, which make sense considering the speed he rides at. He did say both boats were dope. :)

Edited by Kingfish

Share this post


Link to post
MK&P

I battled over the same topic before we picked up our VTX. My wife skis and I ride exclusively. We tested both, and when we rode behind the Diamond Hull it was a glassy morning, so my wife loved it. We she skied behind the Wake Hull it was not as smooth, so she was biased toward the Diamond. I on the other hand was more impressed with the Wake Hull, but that also could have been mentally biased as well. I get in the water more often than she does and most people we are out with ride too, so we agreed that the Wake Hull was the way to go. We have zero regrets about the decision and for surfing, skating, skiing etc, it does it all.

I sometimes wonder how different the wake would be with a Diamond Hull for her. But I would be wondering how much better the wake could be with a Wake Hull if we decided to go with the Diamond Hull.

Share this post


Link to post
old skool malibu

I would like to hear what a dealer has to say on the two different hulls, perhaps Paul from Bakes will chime in... If anyone can come up with a link for this blind wake test that was done some years ago I would really like to see it. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
wakeboy

I talked to a dealer in my area this weekend about the differences between the Diamond and Wake Hulls. Basically what he said is that the Diamond does have a flatter wake at surfing and wakeboard speeds. However, if you add enough weight to either wake you will get the desirable size and shape you want. With enough weight in the right places a Diamond Hull will become very similar to a Wake Hull and he wouldn't be shocked if you couldn't tell the difference. He rides behind these boats a lot and says unweighted or with factory ballast it is clear that the wake hull is the better wake for wakeboarding, but sells Diamond Hulls to a lot of people that ski and wakeboard because you make a diamond hull's wake bigger with weight but can't make an unweighted wake hull's wake flatter, which makes sense.

So I guess it is just a matter of preference between how flat you will need the wake and how much extra weight you are willing to add to increase wake size when need be. However, according to the dealer, there is no way the Diamond Hull is going to throw out a better wakeboard wake than the Wake hull.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...