Mastercraft X-25

[stewart]

Cool video, that was shot on my buddies lake in Orlando. Funny thing is the old Orlando MC dealer who lives on that lake is now a BU dealer.

[mcsammamish]

It's funny how few people mention performance and how few consider it a top reason to buy a boat. It's also suprising to me how few mention this about Master Crafts and how much their new boats lack performance. Remember when all inboards were the sports cars on the water? Well some have tried to stay true to this (especially Malibu)but a lot seem to have forgotten. It's a shame when a good high quality inboard drives more like a 23' I/O than a what it should be. Have to wait and see what the performance is like but if it's like any of their recent boats, this would be enough for me to rule it out.

Supposedly the wake is good based off the CSX and of course having Zane's and Rusty's OK but no one ever mentions at what speed the wake cleans up. From my experience, the deeper the V the faster you need to go to get a clean (also even) wake. Well, I have a lot of people that would rather not ride at 19+ mph. I know my wife has a lot more fun on a wake that's clean and loves to do surface spins at 15 or 16mph and I like to wakeskate slow to work on tricks and then there's the kids that you want to teach and make sure they aren't intimidated and have a great experience, this can go on. I'd like to know what Zane's version is of a good wake because I know what mine is and I doubt it's as family friendly as they think living in their pro wakeboard bubble.

I have to admit that it looks like it has a lot of cool things (curb appeal) but do think some are not very pratical, like the flip up back rest in the sunpad. Do you really need a back rest over convenient access to the most used storage area in the boat? The Igloo cooler takes up too much space and what happens when you forget it or don't want to lug it around when you just need a few refreshments from the gas station; where you gonna keep things cold on a hot day then?

One more thing before I submit and go back and hide in anonymity. The firck'n bow..come on...4 to 5 people (i haven't watched youtube video for a few days, think this is what Zane claimed) really, I'd love to see that. Those girls couldn't even stretch their legs out all the way. Bow ladder with no handles to grab; a 15 year olympic gymnast would struggle with that thing (at least in the water where I guess you would need it vs. being beached then I much prefer to have the swim platform to load onto to clean people's feet off). Just seems that when they hang their hat on something SO much, they might at least hire some short girls that are able to stretch their legs out all the way.

No doubt it will be a popular boat and I'll have to deal with explaining these things and more to people for next year +. No doubt that most people won't appreciate most of them and will only be impressed by the gimmicky curb appeal...Oh and of course what their friends will think when they "hear the name" Master Craft...oooohhhhh...If so I just laugh and know they're paying a large portion of money to the numerous capital investment companies that have come through there in the last few years.

OH AND OF COURSE MAKE SURE THAT WHEN I TAKE PEOPLE OUT FOR TEST DRIVES...TELL EM TO HOLD ON AND THROW THE MALIBU INTO A CORNER AT 40MPH AND WATCH THERE EYES GET AS BIG A DINNER PLATES!

LONG LIVE A BOAT THAT CAN GIVE YOU AN ADRENALINE RUSH...(just not when the wife and kids are in the boat)

[Baddog]

It's funny how few people mention performance and how few consider it a top reason to buy a boat. It's also suprising to me how few mention this about Master Crafts and how much their new boats lack performance. Remember when all inboards were the sports cars on the water? Well some have tried to stay true to this (especially Malibu)but a lot seem to have forgotten. It's a shame when a good high quality inboard drives more like a 23' I/O than a what it should be. Have to wait and see what the performance is like but if it's like any of their recent boats, this would be enough for me to rule it out.

Supposedly the wake is good based off the CSX and of course having Zane's and Rusty's OK but no one ever mentions at what speed the wake cleans up. From my experience, the deeper the V the faster you need to go to get a clean (also even) wake. Well, I have a lot of people that would rather not ride at 19+ mph. I know my wife has a lot more fun on a wake that's clean and loves to do surface spins at 15 or 16mph and I like to wakeskate slow to work on tricks and then there's the kids that you want to teach and make sure they aren't intimidated and have a great experience, this can go on. I'd like to know what Zane's version is of a good wake because I know what mine is and I doubt it's as family friendly as they think living in their pro wakeboard bubble.

I have to admit that it looks like it has a lot of cool things (curb appeal) but do think some are not very pratical, like the flip up back rest in the sunpad. Do you really need a back rest over convenient access to the most used storage area in the boat? The Igloo cooler takes up too much space and what happens when you forget it or don't want to lug it around when you just need a few refreshments from the gas station; where you gonna keep things cold on a hot day then?

One more thing before I submit and go back and hide in anonymity. The firck'n bow..come on...4 to 5 people (i haven't watched youtube video for a few days, think this is what Zane claimed) really, I'd love to see that. Those girls couldn't even stretch their legs out all the way. Bow ladder with no handles to grab; a 15 year olympic gymnast would struggle with that thing (at least in the water where I guess you would need it vs. being beached then I much prefer to have the swim platform to load onto to clean people's feet off). Just seems that when they hang their hat on something SO much, they might at least hire some short girls that are able to stretch their legs out all the way.

No doubt it will be a popular boat and I'll have to deal with explaining these things and more to people for next year +. No doubt that most people won't appreciate most of them and will only be impressed by the gimmicky curb appeal...Oh and of course what their friends will think when they "hear the name" Master Craft...oooohhhhh...If so I just laugh and know they're paying a large portion of money to the numerous capital investment companies that have come through there in the last few years.

OH AND OF COURSE MAKE SURE THAT WHEN I TAKE PEOPLE OUT FOR TEST DRIVES...TELL EM TO HOLD ON AND THROW THE MALIBU INTO A CORNER AT 40MPH AND WATCH THERE EYES GET AS BIG A DINNER PLATES!

LONG LIVE A BOAT THAT CAN GIVE YOU AN ADRENALINE RUSH...(just not when the wife and kids are in the boat)

How about when the Mother In Law is in the boat??

[Malibuswany]

How about when the Mother In Law is in the boat??

I actually did this when my mother in law was in the boat, she went from one side to the other it was great (to bad she didn't fall out). I like a few of the curb appeal items but for the most part I'll keep my BU thank you.

[wakeboy]

Curb appeal? I have an '08 VLX and I live on a decent size lake where there are a lot of people with a lot of money to throw around and some pretty nice boats on their docks. I am not sayingt that an '08 VLX has the best curb appeal of any boat out there, but people pull up to my boat all the time to tell me I have the coolest looking boat on the lake. I love the way my boat looks and that is a factor when purchasing, but I also loved how is performed and how it fit my needs perfectly. I am not saying it is everyone's taste, but with its clean lines, nice interior, and illusion tower, my boat is definetly an eye catcher. So I wouldn't eliminate Malibu just because MC has curb appeal.

[NewMalibu]

Malibu's definitely have great curb appeal, performance and quality. that being said, i have to give credit to MC for going after new markets. Malibu and others have been touting family safety, performance and reliability in their boats. this appeals to a large crowd of people, including middle/upper middle class families that may be getting into their first inboard. A lot of these people will look for creature comforts over pure performance and good looks. they want safety (including a higher freeboard), comfort (possibly including deeper V), storage (and easy access to it - ie, from an initial buyer perspective, having the igloo cooler and gas shocks on all of the seats seems appealing), and creature comforts (arm rests, folding seat backs, pickle fork for more percieved room in the bow, front ladder, etc).

Reality is that many families that will probably purchase an x25 as their first boat, will probably realize that they dont use many of these features and upgrade to an x30 or x35. But by that point the hope from MC is that they will be MC loyalists.

for the 2008 23lsv and 2009vlx, Malibu clearly had a lot of new features that were very appealing to buyers who were not pro wakeboarders, but wanted a performance boat that had good build quality, versatility for water sports, and high overall value. however, in 2010, i personally did not see alot of new advancements other than the G3 and snap out carpet. unfortunately, the snap out carpet was just to keep up with the competition, and the G3's revolutionary feature of the gas shocks, will only be important to a few (i personally believe that most new buyers dont realize the difference - or wont see percieved value in the difference - between the gas shocks and a collapsing tower)

Honestly, when i got serious about buying a boat, i thought i wanted a 23lsv because of the size (i had experience only in I/O's and DD's. A 23 in an I/O was the 'right size'). i could not understand the difference between a sunsetter and a wakesetter, other than the sunsetter did not have as many 'features'. I think that Malibu may need to look at a boat that is percieved as a family sport boat that has the same percieved value as the wakesetters. Ie, put some features on a sunsetter that the wakesetters dont get standard that may appeal to families more.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Isn't this thing going to be like an $80k - $100k boat?

In this economy, has no one learned anything? Like don't refi your house to the hilt to afford some toys? Seems like this boat will be for the elite few who can afford it. The average working man will have to either buy one of the Ride series boats, an Axis or other lower priced brand...... or go used.

Theres a discussion about the X25 going on on WW too. Some things that were pointed out that I agree with......

- MC chose the same bouncy POS tower, with the band aids.

- How long before some 12 yr old leans on those arm rests in the bow & bends them out of shape?

- And will that cooler seat bracket survive your drunk buddy trying to slam it shut after he grabs a beer?

- How long before someone is busted by the popo with people sitting in those stern seats while surfing?

Don't get me wrong. It's a pretty nice boat for the responsible boaters. But for the guys who will get 15 yrs in debt & have an $800/mo. payment, or have people on board who couldn't care less, or who load 100 lbs of speakers on the tower, or....... well, seems like it's a boat being setup for failure.

Edited January 6, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky

[hco]

The thing is there are still plenty of people out there with money that can easily afford boats like this. More people 'learned their lesson' and had mid-priced boats repo'd (At least around me). There were alot more cobalts, bayliners, etc... of people that couldn't really afford a boat at all (or a luxury item of that price range, like sports cars) than people who walk in and buy x-stars. Also, why is people getting in trouble by the police such a big deal? If you can pay 80k for a boat, you can easily pay the 200$ or less for a ticket. Also, if your drunk buddy is so drunk that he cannot figure out how to properly close the cooler seat support and just decides to jump on it/break it, then he probably isn't your buddy and should not be on a nice boat.

And whoever was speculating on the wake above with the v-hulls, I do understand your concerns, but your post is full of tons of speculation.

Again, I know this is a malibu forum, and that alot of you guys hate MC for whatever reason, but I wouldn't bash this boat until you get in it and go for a ride, as I think alot of people will be pleasantly suprised. When one gets in at my local marina and summer rolls around I will post up pictures at various speeds with full ballast and no ballast, and I will also get some pictures of the arm rests and it's brackets and see how sturdy it feels. I might be able to get the arm rest shots and play with the interior before I head back to school as the local MC dealer is getting an x25 in for the New York Boat show.

[NewMalibu]

Isn't this thing going to be like an $80k - $100k boat?

In this economy, has no one learned anything? Like don't refi your house to the hilt to afford some toys? Seems like this boat will be for the elite few who can afford it. The average working man will have to either buy one of the Ride series boats, an Axis or other lower priced brand...... or go used.

Theres a discussion about the X25 going on on WW too. Some things that were pointed out that I agree with......

- MC chose the same bouncy POS tower, with the band aids.

- How long before some 12 yr old leans on those arm rests in the bow & bends them out of shape?

- And will that cooler seat bracket survive your drunk buddy trying to slam it shut after he grabs a beer?

- How long before someone is busted by the popo with people sitting in those stern seats while surfing?

Don't get me wrong. It's a pretty nice boat for the responsible boaters. But for the guys who will get 15 yrs in debt & have an $800/mo. payment, or have people on board who couldn't care less, or who load 100 lbs of speakers on the tower, or....... well, seems like it's a boat being setup for failure.

I agree with you, but to be honest, most new boat buyers will not look at most of these things. they will look at the name and see a lot of people with MC's and ignore some of these thoughts.

Also, as HCO pointed out, there are still plenty of people out there that either have the funds or are willing to make the payments to get into one of these boats.

the real concern here for me is will MC be able to stay solvent by trying to please so many buying persona's. i can only assume that trying to support everyone from a fisherman (CSX) to a wakeboarder (x-star) to skiiers (prostar) to families (Maristar and x series) to yacht owners (300) requires a lot of up front capital as well as ongoing r&d costs. while i am not interested in buying a MC, i would like to see that they stay solvent and continue to innovate, so that it continues to bring more innovation and change to the industry.

[wakeboy]

Actually physics, not speculation, proves that a deeper v-hull will have a shallower and more washed out wake especially at lower speeds. V-hulls are better for rougher water and therefore will smooth out a ride better, which is the trade off when you are talking about deeper hulls.

I agree that there are plenty of people out there with money that can afford a 100k boat, but just because they can afford the 100k boat, it doesn't mean they will get it especially in this economy. Just like luxury car sales the wealthy class are continueing to buy boats, but the boats they are buying are not as expensive. There are actually different reasons for this. First off some people that are that wealthy, don't want to be perceived as snobs in tough times and therefore don't buy the Mercedes that they would have and now buy the Acura instead. The second reason is some people that have that kind of money, are that wealthy because they are good at not spending money. There is a book called, "The millionare next door" that outlines this well. Most guys with the German car and the Rolex are living paycheck to paycheck, while the millionare drives a Toyota and wear a Timex.

[gargaro]

Isn't this thing going to be like an $80k - $100k boat?

In this economy, has no one learned anything? Like don't refi your house to the hilt to afford some toys? Seems like this boat will be for the elite few who can afford it. The average working man will have to either buy one of the Ride series boats, an Axis or other lower priced brand...... or go used.

Theres a discussion about the X25 going on on WW too. Some things that were pointed out that I agree with......

- MC chose the same bouncy POS tower, with the band aids.

- How long before some 12 yr old leans on those arm rests in the bow & bends them out of shape?

- And will that cooler seat bracket survive your drunk buddy trying to slam it shut after he grabs a beer?

- How long before someone is busted by the popo with people sitting in those stern seats while surfing?

Don't get me wrong. It's a pretty nice boat for the responsible boaters. But for the guys who will get 15 yrs in debt & have an $800/mo. payment, or have people on board who couldn't care less, or who load 100 lbs of speakers on the tower, or....... well, seems like it's a boat being setup for failure.

MasterCraft outsold Malibu last year nationwide. With that said, a more expensive good out sold a less expensive good during economic hardships. If the boats are to expensive than why are they the most expensive ones selling best? I feel that a company needs to chase its most captive audience, and right now it seems to be the people on the upper class side of the scale (lets face it they are the ones with the money).

Moomba and Axis are all ready are taking over the entry/economy level portion of the market so why try and chase that noise and erode your brand? Last I checked they are not working over time at either factory.

I agree 100% that the best boat for the common man is a couple year old BU, MC, or Nautique.

[mcsammamish]

NewMalibu, your post as well as your comments last night while we talked are right on the money. The reality is the average buyer is totally different than what they were 5+ yrs ago. It's all about the family and the families with disposible income. The higher end boats cater to older families (more established financially) with the teenagers who are only a few years away from being out of the house and know that boating is about the best thing they can do to spend time with their teenagers. So having a boat with lots of creature comforts, practical or not are going to be attractive. So I'm speculating that this is what Master Craft is counting on as well as other things like image etc.

Bill_AirJunky, You've been away for too long. After living around the beutiful Seattle area's Eastside for so long. There are still plenty of people out there who will buy these. Granted, overall sales will be way down because people have learned their lessons. On average a large percentage of people finance their boats, but honestly over 50% of people who buy a new Malibu from us write a check for it. This market is different from the average boat market.

hco, my comments on the v hull and wake were assumptions but I think based a lot on good experience. I would love to see how well it drives, and rides and will wait until I make any real opinions. I can appreciate a good boat as well as anyone but from my experience with the X Star, X 45 and X2, their performance (effeciency), how loud they are is enough for me to rule them out and this seems to be a trend in all of their new boats. Doesn't make them bad boats, just not a boat I'd like to own. Please do a review for all of us, I'm sure everyone likes a real boat review as a post more than most things.

Oh, and I never said Malibu's didn't have curb appeal. They have plenty of curb appeal and LOTS more to back it up vs a lot of their competitors. That was the point I was trying to get accross, this and how more and more poeple seem to not care so much about the other stuff.

[wakeboy]

Oh, and I never said Malibu's didn't have curb appeal. They have plenty of curb appeal and LOTS more to back it up vs a lot of their competitors. That was the point I was trying to get accross, this and how more and more poeple seem to not care so much about the other stuff.

What do you think there are more of? People that will take a boat that isn't right for them just because they find it more attractive? Or people that will take a boat that isn't as attractive because it fits there needs perfectly? I think ideally someone needs to come up with a balance between the two, but I am curious how many of each extreme there really are, not that anyone can actually answer that question.

For me personally, as a wakeboarder, I would be very concerned about a tower that has historically had problems. I would be less concerned about drunk friends and how they are going to break my cooler though.

[NewMalibu]

what would be very interesting is to see what Malibu's stance is on the MC line up. Ie, where do they feel like MC is 'winning' new business, in which areas and are they interested in going after that segment.

though i am probably years away from buying another boat, i love to think about what my next boat purchase would be. If i had the funds, i would consider buying a second boat that was more for general family/cruising/enteraining that could also act as a general watersports boat. Ie, something like a Cobalt 25-27ft. but since i like surfing, i start considering boats like the x55/24lsv. the x55 definitely comes off as a boat with more creature comforts (i am not comparing anything other than the initial perception that someone gets when walking into the showroom)

Since i dont have the funds, then i start considering where there is a good compromise between my vlx (which i love) and a larger more family oriented boat. I am hoping that when i am allowed to buy another boat that it will be a 23lsv, but given that that will probably be 2-3 years away (at the least), it will be interesting to see what MC/Malibu/CC/Supra/etc come out with and what will fit my needs the best. Unfortunately, i would say that today, MC has the most expansive range of boats to appeal to the most number of buyers and situations. But since i have been a malibu owner with a good user experience, that will definitely weigh heavily on me

[wakeboy]

MasterCraft outsold Malibu last year nationwide. With that said, a more expensive good out sold a less expensive good during economic hardships. If the boats are to expensive than why are they the most expensive ones selling best? I feel that a company needs to chase its most captive audience, and right now it seems to be the people on the upper class side of the scale (lets face it they are the ones with the money).

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MC have a more expansive line that includes many "ocean" boats and even one boat that is classified as a yacht? I would hope they would outsell Malibu, the real question is by how many untis did they outsell Malibu? I am just curious to know the units.

[NewMalibu]

from purely a marketing perspective, i think MC has done something right with their 'surf tabs' and 'additional plug and play ballast'. Sometimes buyers want things to be clearly spelled out for them because they believe that it helps ensure that it will work for what they need. Ie, having a boat that sells itself as a 'surfing boat with the capabilities to do wakeboarding/skiing/etc' is an interesting approach versus having a wakeboard boat that can be loaded up to surf. Maybe Malibu should start a line of boats named for surfing.... I think Centurion used to try to do something along those line with their sideswipe, but i dont think that they did it effectively, it was too soon or they were not big enough (like Malibu/MC) to gain the attention of most new boat buyers.

[Bobby Light]

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't MC have a more expansive line that includes many "ocean" boats and even one boat that is classified as a yacht? I would hope they would outsell Malibu, the real question is by how many untis did they outsell Malibu? I am just curious to know the units.

This is a snapshot between the sales difference in units sold. Not sure if this trend held true all year but it didn't look like it was many.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/500524-boat-sales-struggle-in-tough-second-quarter

[hco]

Also it's now reported that the MSRP for this boat will be 78,800. So then once you throw in surf tabs, plug n' play ballast & bags, a few exterior add-ons (the new sparkle gel is pretty darn good looking), at least a 350 (for the average person not putting 3500lbs. in it), trailer, and a real boat cover (none of that factory crap) the MSRP would be about mid 90's. I will find out what some of the boat show pricing might be though, New York is only 2 weeks away.

[Aric's205V]

How many ways can you swoop a tower? What's your suggestion?

im saying its been that same ugly swoop that really hasn't changed much. And if mastercraft is so crappy then why have they one riders choice since 2003?

[wakeboy]

im saying its been that same ugly swoop that really hasn't changed much. And if mastercraft is so crappy then why have they one riders choice since 2003?

So you don't like the swoop? So don't buy the boat. That is just your opinion. MC and Malibu have won many awards, I don't think whipping it out and seeing who's award schlong is bigger is really going to prove anything.

[Live2Ride]

I'm no pro by any means.

But my few experiences with boarding behind a X-Star, were to say the least interesting.

To me that boat is not a first time buyers boat. Hell, that thing in my eyes is a pro level boat, and the cost reflects that.

Some of the guys I know who are pro level, have told me that the MC X-Star is a great boat. Lots of bling to show off, but the wake on it can be tricky to get dialed in. It took us multiple passes to get it all dialed in. When it was, I thought it was a bit much for my liking. I know for a fact that my CFO would not approve.

Monies aside, it looks like a fancy boat, but a Ferrari is a fancy car as well, that is out performed by many a cheaper cars.

And the last thing I am going to do is buy something just because of a name, and how much bling it's got.

For the high end, has to have the most expensive name brand, pro rider on the lake, the X-25 may be where its at.

But for Fit, Features & Functionality...... I think a Bu is where its at.

[skurfer]

I'm no pro by any means.

But my few experiences with boarding behind a X-Star, were to say the least interesting.

To me that boat is not a first time buyers boat. Hell, that thing in my eyes is a pro level boat, and the cost reflects that.

Some of the guys I know who are pro level, have told me that the MC X-Star is a great boat. Lots of bling to show off, but the wake on it can be tricky to get dialed in. It took us multiple passes to get it all dialed in. When it was, I thought it was a bit much for my liking. I know for a fact that my CFO would not approve.

Monies aside, it looks like a fancy boat, but a Ferrari is a fancy car as well, that is out performed by many a cheaper cars.

And the last thing I am going to do is buy something just because of a name, and how much bling it's got.

For the high end, has to have the most expensive name brand, pro rider on the lake, the X-25 may be where its at.

But for Fit, Features & Functionality...... I think a Bu is where its at.

Umm.......BU's are expensive, too?!?! More like comparing a Ferrari to a Lambo, not a Ferrari to a Nissan..........

[Live2Ride]

Yes they are, but

quick search on craigslist......

Malibu Wakesetter, 08, 17hrs loaded, 48k

Mastercraft X-star, 08, hours not given, loaded, 67.5k

so that's about a 20k difference for somewhat of an equal type boat.

I guess its not much......

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yes they are, but

quick search on craigslist......

Malibu Wakesetter, 08, 17hrs loaded, 48k

Mastercraft X-star, 08, hours not given, loaded, 67.5k

so that's about a 20k difference for somewhat of an equal type boat.

I guess its not much......

Which Wakesetter? Could be a VTX, VLX, LSV 23' or 247.

[wakeboy]

True, so lets assume it is a VTX, how much of a premium are you assuming you would add if it were a VLX?