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wakeboy

Manual Wedge downforce

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wakeboy

Ok so I have a 2008 VLX with a manual wedge. I have read all about people that do and do not like the wedge and how it is suppose to create 1200 lbs and clean up the wake. Now every article I read has the power wedge analysis in it, but never the manual wedge, which makes sense to me. The power wedge can be set at different angles while the manual wedge can only be set all the way down or all the way up.

My question is, does anyone actually know how much downforce is created by the manual wedge when it is locked down?

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Baddog

Can't answer the OP's question, but a related question comes to mind: If one has a manual wedge, can he/she leave the pin out so it free floats? Will that work or be a spectacular disaster?

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tvano

iirc a thousand pounds of force can be generated with the manual wedge.

that number doesn't sound out of the realm of possibilities if you were to compare it to that wake built with a handful of heavies in the stern of the boat.

i know a lot but i just can't remember it; i'm thinking that number came from late last century or early this century but i don't remember if that number came from printed materials or if it was verbal from sales. my wag would be i read it.

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wakeboy

So what you are saying is that it is 1000 pounds of downforce for the manual wedge opposed to the 1200 pounds created by the power wedge in its optimal setting. If that is the case then I am not too upset with having the manual wedge. I know some people complain about raising and lowering the manual, but I have no problem doing it. I also have read some people have problems with their power wedges at times not working, though I am not sure how common a problem that actually is.

Can anyone else confirm that the manual wedge gives about 1000 pounds of downforce?

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Woodski

1000 # is certainly attainable with a wedge. You can calculate that fairly easily, there is data available on wing sections in the NACA handbook. Density of water is 25 x that of air and not compressible. With a mild angle of attack of less than 10 degrees, the wedge profile in air would easily approach 200 # of downforce in air, so 1000 # in water is very realistic.

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wienrdog

Also not sure where it came from, but I've learned that the flat manual wedge was equivalent to 1000#, the angled manual wedge is 750#.

BD - You can't just leave the manual wedge un-pinned. There is a difference between it & the free-floating wedge. The manual wedge unpinned will flip up enough to turn into a sea anchor. Not necessarily a spectacular disaster, but nowhere near the desired results.

I can't remember who here actually tried that, but I do remember reading it.

Same with someone who modified the manual wedge to have an extra set of pin holes that increased it's angle. The did a lot of work & ended up not liking it as much as in the original position. Go figure...

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wakeboy

Ok so I had no idea there was a flat and angled manual wedge. Is there a way to determine which wedge I have? My boat is a 2008 VLX, does that mean it has one wedge opposed to the other?

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Bobby Light

Ok so I had no idea there was a flat and angled manual wedge. Is there a way to determine which wedge I have? My boat is a 2008 VLX, does that mean it has one wedge opposed to the other?

You have the angled wedge.

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wakeboy

Ok so it looks like the 08 VLX with the manual wedge only gets 750 lbs of downforce compared to the power wedge set up of 1200 lbs. A little disappointing to hear that but nothing a couple of sacks won't fix anyways. To me it would seem that the angled wedge should get more downforce than the flat wedge, I am basing this soley on the name of the wedge since angled makes me think the wedge sits at more of an angle and therefore would pull the boat down into the water further.

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WakeGirl

Ok so it looks like the 08 VLX with the manual wedge only gets 750 lbs of downforce compared to the power wedge set up of 1200 lbs. A little disappointing to hear that but nothing a couple of sacks won't fix anyways. To me it would seem that the angled wedge should get more downforce than the flat wedge, I am basing this soley on the name of the wedge since angled makes me think the wedge sits at more of an angle and therefore would pull the boat down into the water further.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the numbers.

FWIW, the angled wedge that they're referring to is actually the difference in the old fixed wedges. One had a foil that was flat, one was bent or angled. Yours is different from both of those, it's the free floating wedge & I'm not sure that they ever released or published a number for that wedge. It will give you 85-90% of the performance of a power wedge IME.

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Bake's Marine

I know all four wedges are rated different, the floating wedge (which is what would be the option on a 08') should be 1,000 lbs. Where did you hear 750 lbs from? I got the 1,000 lbs info from our rep.

i put links on the different wedges so you can identify what wedge you have, should be the floating foil.

Flat Foil (Diamond hull) equivalent 1000 lbs. http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1692

Bent Foil (wake hull) equivalent 850 lbs. http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1691

Floating Wedge (all stainless, only comes flat) equivalent 1,000 lbs. http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1693

Power Wedge equivalent 1,200 lbs. http://www.malibuboats.com/images/review/Jan/Power_Wedge_800.jpg

Hope this helps.

-Paul

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Malibudude

The angled wedge is designed that way to mimic the hull shape, the diamond hulls utilized the flat wedge. The manual wedge is equivalent to ~1k of ballast.

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wakeboy

Ok so I am sorry about my confusion but it seems like you are telling me that my VLX with a Wakehull, has a floating wedge? Which has approx 1,000 pounds of downforce. Now my boat is in storage right now, but looking at those pictures, I believe that is what I have (my boat is in the water all year so I rarely see the wedge out of the water). However, I can lock my wedge in the down position, which my guess is that you can't do this with the floating wedge, or can you? I guess there is a possibility I am using the wedge incorrectly.

I apologize that I get confused more with the more information thrown at me. I just want to make sure I know what I got and how to use it properly.

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Malibudude

Ok so I am sorry about my confusion but it seems like you are telling me that my VLX with a Wakehull, has a floating wedge? Which has approx 1,000 pounds of downforce. Now my boat is in storage right now, but looking at those pictures, I believe that is what I have (my boat is in the water all year so I rarely see the wedge out of the water). However, I can lock my wedge in the down position, which my guess is that you can't do this with the floating wedge, or can you? I guess there is a possibility I am using the wedge incorrectly.

I apologize that I get confused more with the more information thrown at me. I just want to make sure I know what I got and how to use it properly.

The floating wedge only locks in the up position, whereas the fixed wedge locks in both the up and down positions. Since you stated you can lock it in the down position then based on that you have the fixed wedge not the floater.

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WakeGirl

The floating wedge only locks in the up position, whereas the fixed wedge locks in both the up and down positions. Since you stated you can lock it in the down position then based on that you have the fixed wedge not the floater.

What he said.

I thought that they had stopped production of the old fixed wedge?

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wakeboy

Is it weird that the wake hull would have a fixed wedge on an '08 VLX?

Also, looking at the link for the floating wedge you sent. It looks like the floating wedge can be locked down, but there are two bolts in the holes preventing the wedge from going this far down. I am assuming these bolts are to keep the wedge in the ideal position so it will "float" to the correct position when the boat is under power. Ok now I might be talking craziness right now, but does this seem like it could be a possible scenario. If the two bolts in the bottom holes, that look to prevent the wedge from locking in a down position, were removed then the wedge could potentially be locked down. Now this could explain why I have a stainless steel wedge that looks exactly like the floating wedge but I never knew this and locked it in the down position. Seeing as this boat had a previous owner before me, these bolts may have been incorrectly removed before I took ownership.

I know that might sound far fetched but has this happened to anyone before?

If this is the case and I put bolts in those holes to prevent the wedge from locking in a down position, I should see a noticable difference in wake size, right?

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=62913&highlight=&sid=ee76cef4a3b5bd0354ea2ebb4b61fe8b

I found this link with larger pictures of the floating wedge that show more clearly what I am refering to.

Edited by wakeboy

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WakeGirl

No, the floating wedge cannot be locked down. Those bolts hold it off of the rudder, keeping it from coming too far forward, nothing more. The floating wedge doesn't have the necessary additional mechanism to lock it in the down position. You can move those bolts to the optional position, that may help. But don't remove them.

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wakeboy

Ya but if those bolts were removed, I bet the wedge would lock into those holes and still give the rudder enough clearance.

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WakeGirl

Ya but if those bolts were removed, I bet the wedge would lock into those holes and still give the rudder enough clearance.

You're not understanding. To lock it in requires another mechanism in a different spot on the arms, which the floater doesn't have. Look at the floater, then look at the fixed wedge - fixed has an additional mechanism.

The floater performs better anyway IME, not sure why you'd want to try that.

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wakeboy

I think I have confused you with what I am saying. It is not that I want to try this. I think I have been locking in a floating wedge. What I believe may have happened with my boat is that the floating wedge's bottom two bolts were removed for whatever reason before I purchased it. I believe that the same mechanism that locks the wedge in the up position, will also fit into the bottom holes if the bolts there were removed. This is what I believe is happening on my boat.

I am in no way saying this is what I want to do or intended to do, but my wedge does lock in the down position. It is a stainless steel wedge that looks just like the floating wedge. I also, don't believe mine has seperate mechanisms for locking it up or down which would also suggest it is a floating wedge. Now I could be mistaken, but this does seem to fit.

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Bake's Marine

What he said.

I thought that they had stopped production of the old fixed wedge?

They did, 2006 was the last year of the standard wedge. Floating wedge took over production boats in 2007, including the ride models. Unless a dealer installed it after pre-delivery?

-Paul

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WakeGirl

I think I have confused you with what I am saying. It is not that I want to try this. I think I have been locking in a floating wedge. What I believe may have happened with my boat is that the floating wedge's bottom two bolts were removed for whatever reason before I purchased it. I believe that the same mechanism that locks the wedge in the up position, will also fit into the bottom holes if the bolts there were removed. This is what I believe is happening on my boat.

I am in no way saying this is what I want to do or intended to do, but my wedge does lock in the down position. It is a stainless steel wedge that looks just like the floating wedge. I also, don't believe mine has seperate mechanisms for locking it up or down which would also suggest it is a floating wedge. Now I could be mistaken, but this does seem to fit.

Does it have stainless steel arms? What does the bracket look like? There was a stainless steel option on the old fixed wedge, but the arms were nibral like the regular version & the bracket was annodized aluminum also like what came with the regular version.

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wakeboy

Ya I think that there is only one locking arm mechanism. It looks like the fixed wedge has two arms. I am mostly curious because I don't want to run my boat with the wedge not working correctly because that could cause problems and I really don't want to ruin anything.

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wakeboy

Again, I could be wrong, since my boat spends all summer in the lake and we rarely ever take it out. Then it goes right to storage so I don't get a good look at the wedge all that often. However, this does add up considering what I have read.

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Surfin247

To clear it up. Malibu made some SS angled fixed wedges for some of the early 08 VLX's before the floating wedge became the standard. Probably getting rid of their stock. Wakeboy if your foil is bolted on (you see 2 or 3 bolt heads on the bottom of your wedge.)then you have one of these SS fixed wedges. The floating wedge is all welded. If you can lock in down it is one of the SS angled fixed wedges. 850lbs ballast equivalent.

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