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bskiball

1994 Echelon

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bskiball

Just bought a mint condition Echelon Lx (Bought without running), Before you laugh, I got a good enough "deal" that I can replace the entire motor and still be cheaper than book value. Went to try it today and tons of white smoke out the exhaust and really running rough. So I shut it done brought it home and pulled the sprak plugs to check for water in the cylinders. Water come out of the the rear cylinder on the driver side. I'm pretty sure I'm looking at bad head gasket, cracked head, cracked block. My guess is improper winterazation by previous onwer because the impeller is still good. My plan is to pull the head and see what I can see. Is there any test I can do to narrow down the issue? Advice would be appriciated. thanks David

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Pistol Pete

I'd do a proper compression test on all cylinders.

Then, to narrow down the culprit, you need to do a cylinder leak down test.

Both of these require some special tools but, I bet you knew that.

Welcome to the crew and congrats on your purchase.

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amarfanhar

WOW!! I guess you should have gone for a test drive.

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bskiball

Thanks for the advice. My brother has a compression testor. Do I just compare all the cylinders to one another? Not really sure how a leak down test works. I will look into that. As long as I'm headed in the right direction I'll have her going by spring. I'll let you know how it goes, might not be for a week or two though, pretty busy right now.

My first Malibu I paid 1000 for not running (no test drive) and basically brought her back from the (That was four Years Ago) Now I am doing it again. PLus I have done the math and at the price I paid I have plenty of room to get her fixed myself. I'd rather turn a wrench than pay full price, you learn things that way. Thumbup.gif

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Pistol Pete

The first thing you should check is for a cracked block. Easy enough, hook the boat up to water at the intake and see if any comes out anywhere from the engine. If so, and you've got the money room to spare, I'd dump a whole new engine in it. That leaves out all variables about the rest of the motor and the heads.

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bskiball

The block had no water in when I got it in the water and it ran, the water just tons of white smoke out of the exhaust. Nothing came out of the motor into the engine bay though. So i do not think that it has any external cracks. Possibly an internal crack from rear water passage into cylinder? Or cracked head?

To do what you suggest I would take the thermostat housing off (or hose the goes to it) and fill the water in the intake and see where it goes?

Thanks

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martinarcher
Thanks for the advice. My brother has a compression testor. Do I just compare all the cylinders to one another? Not really sure how a leak down test works. I will look into that. As long as I'm headed in the right direction I'll have her going by spring. I'll let you know how it goes, might not be for a week or two though, pretty busy right now.

My first Malibu I paid 1000 for not running (no test drive) and basically brought her back from the (That was four Years Ago) Now I am doing it again. PLus I have done the math and at the price I paid I have plenty of room to get her fixed myself. I'd rather turn a wrench than pay full price, you learn things that way. Thumbup.gif

You've got the right attitude! Sounds like you think just like me! Thumbup.gif

Pete's test would be basically running the motor and letting the impeller pump run water through the block. This and the engine's water pump will create enough pressure to push water through a crack in the block if it comes to the surface. You are exactly right though, if it is cracked around a water passage internally this test won;t show you the location of your crack.

Like Pete said, a leak down test will help narrow your search down, but if I would have to guess I bet if you pull the head off on the side you found water in the plug hole and the cylinder wall looks good I bet you have a breached head gasket. That would be a pretty easy and cheap fix. Clap.gif

Good luck and keep us posted. Thumbup.gif Welcome to the Crew!

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Pistol Pete
To do what you suggest I would take the thermostat housing off (or hose the goes to it) and fill the water in the intake and see where it goes?

Thanks

No,

What I meant was to hook up a fake a lake to the boat's raw water intake.

Mr. Archer has some good advice.

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bskiball

Thanks Guys. When I get a chance I'll dig deeper. Putting a roof on this week so no time to play mechanic. I'll let you know what I find.

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Woodski

A leak down test will pinpoint where the cylinder leak is. The leak down level, a percent value, more is bad and the air escaping noise will tell you where the leak is.

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Baddog

Where in Ohio are you located? There are few folks here around the Cincy/Dayton area.

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bskiball

Got the parts to make my leak down tester today (24 dollars) I'll try to look at it this weekend and see what I can find.

We live at shawnee lake in jamestown, don't tell anyone about the lake though, we don't want anyone to know its here (to make tubbers allready)

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martinarcher
Got the parts to make my leak down tester today (24 dollars) I'll try to look at it this weekend and see what I can find.

We live at shawnee lake in jamestown, don't tell anyone about the lake though, we don't want anyone to know its here (to make tubbers allready)

Good deal. Let us know what you find. That test should certainly help.

Never been to Lake Shawnee. You're about 4 hours from us.

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bskiball

Well I have good new "I think". Well here goes. I started by doing a compression test (Without engine warm up because it won't run) on the passenger side cylinder bank and found all to be good on that side (155, 160, 160, 160). As I turned the motor over for that last cylinder i noticed a huge puff from the rear driver side cylinder. I thought it was water leaking down into the cylinder as I had susspected but it smelled like gas. I took the one way valve out of the compression tester to make it simply a hose out of the cylinder and into my wifes glass measureing cup (SHHHHH). It was definately gas (smelled like gas and had the gold gas tint) . I think my conclusion is no longer head gasket or crack block / head but some sort of fuel injection issue. The guy i bought the boat from said the injectors were bad so I had the cleaned and tested by my local NAPA already and they said they were all up to standard sooooooo. any thoughts at this time would be great.

Where can I get a book on this motor?

thanks guys

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nuttyskier2002
Well I have good new "I think". Well here goes. I started by doing a compression test (Without engine warm up because it won't run) on the passenger side cylinder bank and found all to be good on that side (155, 160, 160, 160). As I turned the motor over for that last cylinder i noticed a huge puff from the rear driver side cylinder. I thought it was water leaking down into the cylinder as I had susspected but it smelled like gas. I took the one way valve out of the compression tester to make it simply a hose out of the cylinder and into my wifes glass measureing cup (SHHHHH). It was definately gas (smelled like gas and had the gold gas tint) . I think my conclusion is no longer head gasket or crack block / head but some sort of fuel injection issue. The guy i bought the boat from said the injectors were bad so I had the cleaned and tested by my local NAPA already and they said they were all up to standard sooooooo. any thoughts at this time would be great.

Where can I get a book on this motor?

thanks guys

So in your original post you said "water" came out of one of your cylinders when you pulled the plug. Was it water or was it gas then too? Is it just one cylinder you're getting raw fuel out of? And is this motor port fuel injection? If so, replace the one FI and see what you got. If it cranks, only run for a few seconds and shut down and see if you get any more water in the cylinder. Check the oil too. The number one cause of water getting into cylinders is leaking exhaust manifolds. Go slow with your testing. If you don't get any water the first time you run it,... run again a little longer. Then longer still the time after that.

One other thing,.... it's entirely possible to get water in the cylinders (a couple of them) with there being anything wrong. For example,... if your exhaust flaps don't close (or they are missing) and your boat takes a waves in the back (or you back up too fast) it can ram water up the exhaust and in through an open exhaust valve. This can be a one time event and it can leave you scratching your head.

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footnlongline
Well I have good new "I think". Well here goes. I started by doing a compression test (Without engine warm up because it won't run) on the passenger side cylinder bank and found all to be good on that side (155, 160, 160, 160). As I turned the motor over for that last cylinder i noticed a huge puff from the rear driver side cylinder. I thought it was water leaking down into the cylinder as I had susspected but it smelled like gas. I took the one way valve out of the compression tester to make it simply a hose out of the cylinder and into my wifes glass measureing cup (SHHHHH). It was definately gas (smelled like gas and had the gold gas tint) . I think my conclusion is no longer head gasket or crack block / head but some sort of fuel injection issue. The guy i bought the boat from said the injectors were bad so I had the cleaned and tested by my local NAPA already and they said they were all up to standard sooooooo. any thoughts at this time would be great.

Where can I get a book on this motor?

thanks guys

what do yoooo have? merc mag ski 350 0r mag ski 350 mpi?

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bskiball

I think it may have been fuel in the cylinder when I thought it was water. The engine is a 454 Multi Port Fuel Injection. I think I will switch the problem cylinder injector with one that is not filling teh cylinder and see if the problem follows the injector than I have found the problem, one bad injector. I may get to switch them today. I'll let you know what I find.

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Pistol Pete

It sounds like that injector is bad and letting an awful lot of gas into that cylinder. If that's the case, you may have already bent a connecting rod. What was the compression readings on the other cylinders?

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Pistol Pete
Where can I get a book on this motor?

Here.

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footnlongline
Where can I get a book on this motor?

Here.

don't think malibu used indmar in 94

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Pistol Pete
Where can I get a book on this motor?

Here.

don't think malibu used indmar in 94

In 94?

Still, that's the only book out there. It's worth having.

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bskiball

Heres what I have found now. I switched the cylinder #8 injector with the #6 injector. No differance in anything. The #8 cylinder filled with fuel again. So it must not be an injector hanging open. I then disconnected the clip on the #8 cylinder to see if the computer was sending wrong information and causing the injector to just stay open. No differance again. Cylinder #8 still filled with fuel. I think my next step is to check fuel rail pressure and see if it is getting over pressured and opening the #8 injector. I'm not sure if that is possible but I think I need to check fuel pressure next. any advice would be great.

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Sunsetter95

Sounds like to me that you may have more than one problem. To much fuel would make black smoke not white. I didn't see if you completed the compression test. If not, do. #6 may be feeding #8 with fuel if the gasket is blown between them.

Any way, there is obviously an issue there. Pull the head and inspect. I had a long block rebuild done for under $2k, but I did all of the labor. I just dropped off the long block at the shop.

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bskiball

Switched #8 injector again today and nothing different. Still getting fuel out of the #8 Cylinder when the engine cranks. I did finish checking compression on all cylinders and all are with in 160 to 170 range. I don't think it is a head gasket or crack anywhere but not really sure where to go from here. I checked the fuel regulator with my air hose and it was opening around 40-45 psi. Begining to get a little frustated. Any one have any ideas.

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