Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
docdsc

Carburator Wedges

Recommended Posts

docdsc

My DD 1998 Sportster has had missing problems for the past 20-25 hrs. I've replaced the entire electrical system, ECM, rotor, cap, wires, coil, plugs, adjusted timing and have been unable to cure problem. It occurs at high power settings/high RPM. I brought it to a mechanic I've used in the past, who works on auto's as well as boats, and he feels that the problem may be with the valves, dur to the carb being at a high angle. The carb is a holley 4 barrel. He states that it has been worked on(previous owner) because there are 2 gaskets and bolts holding the carb to the intake manifold. He has not has the chance to do a compression check yet, but has seen a similar situation in other boats, where the carb was bolted directly to the intake manifold, at an angle, causing damage to the valves. He feels a wedge to level the carb may fix the problem.

Was there a wedge on the boat from the factory? Has anybody come across this problem? Holley makes a 7 and 12 degree wedge for the carb, any recomendations? The boat has been running rich since I bought it, I attributed it to the altitude (6500ft) I use the boat. He feels that fuel may be running into the engine due to the angle of the carb/engine.

I appreciate any input.

Thank you, Dan

Share this post


Link to post
nuttyskier2002
My DD 1998 Sportster has had missing problems for the past 20-25 hrs. I've replaced the entire electrical system, ECM, rotor, cap, wires, coil, plugs, adjusted timing and have been unable to cure problem. It occurs at high power settings/high RPM. I brought it to a mechanic I've used in the past, who works on auto's as well as boats, and he feels that the problem may be with the valves, dur to the carb being at a high angle. The carb is a holley 4 barrel. He states that it has been worked on(previous owner) because there are 2 gaskets and bolts holding the carb to the intake manifold. He has not has the chance to do a compression check yet, but has seen a similar situation in other boats, where the carb was bolted directly to the intake manifold, at an angle, causing damage to the valves. He feels a wedge to level the carb may fix the problem.

Was there a wedge on the boat from the factory? Has anybody come across this problem? Holley makes a 7 and 12 degree wedge for the carb, any recomendations? The boat has been running rich since I bought it, I attributed it to the altitude (6500ft) I use the boat. He feels that fuel may be running into the engine due to the angle of the carb/engine.

I appreciate any input.

Thank you, Dan

You state that you have replaced the ECM. Was the boat originally fuel injected and then converted to carburetion? That would be the only reason for there to be an ECM in your boat. What model Holley carb,... 4160? Those carbs came as original equipment on Indmars for years without wedges. Some carbs require wedges but the 4160 is designed to not need one because of the way the floats are hung. I'm running a Holley 4150 double pumper and I do have a wedge. Not sure of the angle degree,... will have to check. Only 2 bolts holding the carb down? Where are the other 2? You may be sucking air due to this. Also, if you suspect an issue with valves sealing,... you can perform a compression and leakdown test to verify. These are my first thoughts. Write back with some more engine information and maybe we'll be able to provide more help.

Share this post


Link to post
docdsc
My DD 1998 Sportster has had missing problems for the past 20-25 hrs. I've replaced the entire electrical system, ECM, rotor, cap, wires, coil, plugs, adjusted timing and have been unable to cure problem. It occurs at high power settings/high RPM. I brought it to a mechanic I've used in the past, who works on auto's as well as boats, and he feels that the problem may be with the valves, dur to the carb being at a high angle. The carb is a holley 4 barrel. He states that it has been worked on(previous owner) because there are 2 gaskets and bolts holding the carb to the intake manifold. He has not has the chance to do a compression check yet, but has seen a similar situation in other boats, where the carb was bolted directly to the intake manifold, at an angle, causing damage to the valves. He feels a wedge to level the carb may fix the problem.

Was there a wedge on the boat from the factory? Has anybody come across this problem? Holley makes a 7 and 12 degree wedge for the carb, any recomendations? The boat has been running rich since I bought it, I attributed it to the altitude (6500ft) I use the boat. He feels that fuel may be running into the engine due to the angle of the carb/engine.

I appreciate any input.

Thank you, Dan

I replaced the module under the distributor cap. The distributor is a Delco EST. The carb is a holley 4160. I did adjust the float levels, but after the problem began. I doubt the boat was ever fuel injected. The carb does have 4 bolts, which 1 is different and there are 2 gaskets between the carb and the intake manifold. There are no studs, which the mechanic stated are the norm. As for the compression, I will have to get back to you. He feels that some of the valves are bad due to some of the cylinders running rich. A wedge would be an easy fix if nothing else is wrong. I cant find anything in the Clymer Indmar manual to help solve this problem. I am hopeful somebody can. My 11 yo says I should get a new engine. What is a leakdown test? Dan

You state that you have replaced the ECM. Was the boat originally fuel injected and then converted to carburetion? That would be the only reason for there to be an ECM in your boat. What model Holley carb,... 4160? Those carbs came as original equipment on Indmars for years without wedges. Some carbs require wedges but the 4160 is designed to not need one because of the way the floats are hung. I'm running a Holley 4150 double pumper and I do have a wedge. Not sure of the angle degree,... will have to check. Only 2 bolts holding the carb down? Where are the other 2? You may be sucking air due to this. Also, if you suspect an issue with valves sealing,... you can perform a compression and leakdown test to verify. These are my first thoughts. Write back with some more engine information and maybe we'll be able to provide more help.

Share this post


Link to post
nuttyskier2002

A leakdown test is one you do to follow up a compression test. The compression test is limited in what it will tell you as far as something being wrong. It will let you know if you have a leaking cylinder but it may not reveal where it is leaking. A leakdown test will narrow down where the leak is.

You can google leakdown test and get instructions to build one or you can buy one at an auto parts or tool store. When connected to the spark plug hole of the cylinder in question, with both valves of that cylinder closed and the piston at TDC and shop air supplied to the tester, you listen for where the air is coming from and you read the gauge to determine percent of leakage. If you here air hissing in the exhaust your exhaust valve is leaking, conversely if you here air through the carb it's the intake valve. If you pull the oil cap and here a louder hiss your rings are the culprit. This explanation is very vague and there much more information on the internet,... just google leakdown test.

One question though before you get into all this,... have you verified fuel delivery (guantity). A high speed miss is usually one of two things,.... ignition or fuel. You said you replaced all you ignition parts, right? Let's check fuel pressure and delivery. Also give you timing and check too if you haven't already. Your mechanic should know how to do this. If not,... get back here.

Share this post


Link to post
martinarcher

I had the same symptoms last fall and after installing a fuel pressure gauge in line between the fuel pump and the carburetor I found the fuel pump wasn't keeping up during hard pulls and high RPM runs. I replaced the fuel pump and all has been well. Yahoo.gifThumbup.gif If you have replaced all the electrical ignition parts (I did them first too with no change), I'd start digging into your fuel delivery.

Share this post


Link to post
docdsc
I had the same symptoms last fall and after installing a fuel pressure gauge in line between the fuel pump and the carburetor I found the fuel pump wasn't keeping up during hard pulls and high RPM runs. I replaced the fuel pump and all has been well. Yahoo.gifThumbup.gif If you have replaced all the electrical ignition parts (I did them first too with no change), I'd start digging into your fuel delivery.

I had the engine compression tested, the front 6 cyl are 140psi, rear 2 135 psi. Leak down test was negative. Mechanic noted fuel dumping from the rear 2 chambers of the holley into the intake manifold. He feels my carb is bad. I ordered a rebuilt one from flying fish carburators in Largo, FL. They will meter/adjust it for my altitude. They did feel that a wedge may be beneficial, as the engine sits at a 15 degree angle, and while wakeboarding/wakesurfing, the angle is much greater. I guess I will splurge for the $125 for the 12 degree holley carb wedge. Thank you for the help. Ill post how it turns out. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
martinarcher

Good deal. Let us know how you make out. I hope it works for you! Thumbup.gif

Share this post


Link to post
sparkoft

Hi,

I have an 88 skier with an edelbrock manifold and carb. it was on the boat when i bought it and it did not have a wedge, after a while i noticed fuel leaking from the back of the carb. i was told that the stock carb and manifold had a wedge because of the angle of the engine with the DD. i bought a 1" spacer from a local auto parts store and took it to a machine shop where they milled at an angle it to make it a wedge. it solved the problem, it has been three years and no fuel problems. it is also better to have the carb as level as you can get it because it is almost impossibe to get the floats adjusted right with it sitting at the angle. i had about 60 dollars into the whole thing. good luck

Edited by sparkoft

Share this post


Link to post
Sunsetter95
Hi,

I have an 88 skier with an edelbrock manifold and carb. it was on the boat when i bought it and it did not have a wedge, after a while i noticed fuel leaking from the back of the carb. i was told that the stock carb and manifold had a wedge because of the angle of the engine with the DD. i bought a 1" spacer from a local auto parts store and took it to a machine shop where they milled at an angle it to make it a wedge. it solved the problem, it has been three years and no fuel problems. it is also better to have the carb as level as you can get it because it is almost impossibe to get the floats adjusted right with it sitting at the angle. i had about 60 dollars into the whole thing. good luck

For sure a DD has a wedge spacer under the carb. A carb should be as close to level as possible under normal operation. Also, if you have a Holley, your carb needs to have the splash guard for the primary bowl vent. It is used for off-road and race vehicle applications. It prevents gas from dumping into the intake when the carb is tilited up or side to side, within reason that is.

My '95 has about a 1" or so wedge under it. I have pics at home but not at work, sorry. I also drilled and tapped the spacer in the back to fit a PCV connection. That eliminated a lot of mess on the engine from crankcase venting.

Share this post


Link to post
Woodski

There should be a wedge. In addition to leveling the carb at rest, it also acts as a plenum allowing a better mixture. Not only is the carb at 15 degrees from level, the problem is magnified under acceleration, and any running condition where the boat is not on plane. I would imagine Skidim will have a wedge plate for your carb. Set the boat in the water, take a level to the intake manifold and check for the wedge of choice.

Share this post


Link to post
nuttyskier2002

I noticed that all responses saying that there should be a wedge are coming from boat owners who have Merc engines. Most Merc engines came from the factory with either Rochester or Weber carbs. These are more sensitive to angle. Indmar engines equipped with 4160 Holleys for the most part did not come equipped with wedges. Instead they had a 1" spacer between the carb and the manifold. Now don't get me wrong here,.... I'm not saying a wedge won't help with the problem. But from reading the original post,.... this boat did not have this issue of leaking fuel into the secondaries from the get-go. So what I'm saying is,.... he might install the wedge and still have the same problem. I vote for rebuilding the carb first and making sure the float levels are set correctly. My $.02.

Share this post


Link to post
Sunsetter95
I noticed that all responses saying that there should be a wedge are coming from boat owners who have Merc engines. Most Merc engines came from the factory with either Rochester or Weber carbs. These are more sensitive to angle. Indmar engines equipped with 4160 Holleys for the most part did not come equipped with wedges. Instead they had a 1" spacer between the carb and the manifold. Now don't get me wrong here,.... I'm not saying a wedge won't help with the problem. But from reading the original post,.... this boat did not have this issue of leaking fuel into the secondaries from the get-go. So what I'm saying is,.... he might install the wedge and still have the same problem. I vote for rebuilding the carb first and making sure the float levels are set correctly. My $.02.

:Doh: Good point! Yes, rebuild first.

Share this post


Link to post
martinarcher
I noticed that all responses saying that there should be a wedge are coming from boat owners who have Merc engines. Most Merc engines came from the factory with either Rochester or Weber carbs. These are more sensitive to angle. Indmar engines equipped with 4160 Holleys for the most part did not come equipped with wedges. Instead they had a 1" spacer between the carb and the manifold. Now don't get me wrong here,.... I'm not saying a wedge won't help with the problem. But from reading the original post,.... this boat did not have this issue of leaking fuel into the secondaries from the get-go. So what I'm saying is,.... he might install the wedge and still have the same problem. I vote for rebuilding the carb first and making sure the float levels are set correctly. My $.02.

I have to respectfully disagree. The off road guys always went to Rochester carbs to solve off camber mixture problems. I know the Carter aka Edelbrock carbs were always bad for off camber float problems. There was a thread a while back about a guy with a Carter 4 bbl that was running bad when ballasted for surfing. My Quadrajet runs great no matter how much we lean the boat over. It also does not use a wedge. I can't speak for Holleys as I've always ran Quadrajets.

Edited by martinarcher

Share this post


Link to post
Woodski

The Edelbrock carb is the same as a Carter which is the same as a Weber. The Weber carbed Merc's had the wedge so the wedge added to the Edelbrock carb makes sense.

On the boat with the problem, I would certainly look carefully at the plugs and see if there is a mixture problem, rich at the back, lean up front.

Share this post


Link to post
nuttyskier2002

Ditto on the above three carbs being the same (Weber, Carter and Edelbrock). As a matter of fact these carbs are a spin-off of the old Carter AFB.

Martin, maybe I miss spoke about the Rochester. Rochesters are good carbs and I wouldn't hesitate to use one. My old '59 Chris Craft had a Quadrajet from a donor Cadillac (yes I know,... not marine,.... but I was younger then) on top of a transplanted 327 Chevy motor. It ran very well. I did run a wedge with that setup. But I do remember that even with the wedge that carb still didn't set level. The engine in that boat set a deeper angle than today's direct drives because it was mounted more to the rear. It was also mounted backwards which made finding a wedge very difficult.

So to clarify,... my point about wedges was not to bash Rochesters. Instead it was to point out that Holley 4160's (which the original poster has) were designed to run at other than level angles and not effect air fuel mixture.

Share this post


Link to post
martinarcher
Ditto on the above three carbs being the same (Weber, Carter and Edelbrock). As a matter of fact these carbs are a spin-off of the old Carter AFB.

Martin, maybe I miss spoke about the Rochester. Rochesters are good carbs and I wouldn't hesitate to use one. My old '59 Chris Craft had a Quadrajet from a donor Cadillac (yes I know,... not marine,.... but I was younger then) on top of a transplanted 327 Chevy motor. It ran very well. I did run a wedge with that setup. But I do remember that even with the wedge that carb still didn't set level. The engine in that boat set a deeper angle than today's direct drives because it was mounted more to the rear. It was also mounted backwards which made finding a wedge very difficult.

So to clarify,... my point about wedges was not to bash Rochesters. Instead it was to point out that Holley 4160's (which the original poster has) were designed to run at other than level angles and not effect air fuel mixture.

No worries! Thumbup.gif I just wanted to clarify that the Quads weren't all that sensetive to angle changes. I'm sure any carb will start having troubles if you tilt it to an extreme angle, but I've had great luck with the Rochesters. It sounds like you have too! Thumbup.gif

Not sure what carb the OP is running, but if it it a Weber/Carter/Edelbrock I would certainly make sure it has a wedge to keep it as close to level as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
docdsc
Ditto on the above three carbs being the same (Weber, Carter and Edelbrock). As a matter of fact these carbs are a spin-off of the old Carter AFB.

Martin, maybe I miss spoke about the Rochester. Rochesters are good carbs and I wouldn't hesitate to use one. My old '59 Chris Craft had a Quadrajet from a donor Cadillac (yes I know,... not marine,.... but I was younger then) on top of a transplanted 327 Chevy motor. It ran very well. I did run a wedge with that setup. But I do remember that even with the wedge that carb still didn't set level. The engine in that boat set a deeper angle than today's direct drives because it was mounted more to the rear. It was also mounted backwards which made finding a wedge very difficult.

So to clarify,... my point about wedges was not to bash Rochesters. Instead it was to point out that Holley 4160's (which the original poster has) were designed to run at other than level angles and not effect air fuel mixture.

No worries! Thumbup.gif I just wanted to clarify that the Quads weren't all that sensetive to angle changes. I'm sure any carb will start having troubles if you tilt it to an extreme angle, but I've had great luck with the Rochesters. It sounds like you have too! Thumbup.gif

Not sure what carb the OP is running, but if it it a Weber/Carter/Edelbrock I would certainly make sure it has a wedge to keep it as close to level as possible.

I'm glad my post sparked interest. I have learned more about carbs in the past few weeks than ever in my life. The input given is valuable. I did order a rebuilt Holley 4160, and also did learn that it is designed to run at an angle. I called Indmar, and spoke to a service rep. They did agree that the boat would likely benefit from running a carburetor wedge, and thus i ordered a 12 degree wedge. It seems like a inexpensive fix to install, especially when the carb is already off. I may not know if the wedge actually improves anything that the rebuilt carb did not fix. Especially since the carb shop is adjusting the carb for my altitude, something that had never been done. The running angle of the engine at wakeboarding/wakesurfing speeds is likely approaching 30 degrees with the wedge/ballast((15 degrees at idle). I should have the boat running by weeks end and will report back. Thank you all for the input. I am hopeful that this will solve my Sportsters issues. Cant wait to barefoot soon, before it snows. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
docdsc

Just a follow up to my engine missing problem. My 1998 Sportster started running poorly, missing, and loosing power last summer. I tried everything to resolve the problem, and at the end of last season I purchased a rebuilt carb, a Holley 4160. This was from Flying Fish Carburators, in Largo FL. I did not have a chance to run the boat last fall after the rebuild. I also installed a 15 degree wedge plate, to level the carb.

I have run the boat about 6 hrs this week, and it is running better than it ever has. So, I'm not sure how much difference the wedge plate helped, or was it just having the carb rebuilt and jetted properly, but my problem is solved, and I'm thrilled. I hope this may help someone having similar problems. Thank you for the input I received. Dan

My DD 1998 Sportster has had missing problems for the past 20-25 hrs. I've replaced the entire electrical system, ECM, rotor, cap, wires, coil, plugs, adjusted timing and have been unable to cure problem. It occurs at high power settings/high RPM. I brought it to a mechanic I've used in the past, who works on auto's as well as boats, and he feels that the problem may be with the valves, dur to the carb being at a high angle. The carb is a holley 4 barrel. He states that it has been worked on(previous owner) because there are 2 gaskets and bolts holding the carb to the intake manifold. He has not has the chance to do a compression check yet, but has seen a similar situation in other boats, where the carb was bolted directly to the intake manifold, at an angle, causing damage to the valves. He feels a wedge to level the carb may fix the problem.

Was there a wedge on the boat from the factory? Has anybody come across this problem? Holley makes a 7 and 12 degree wedge for the carb, any recomendations? The boat has been running rich since I bought it, I attributed it to the altitude (6500ft) I use the boat. He feels that fuel may be running into the engine due to the angle of the carb/engine.

I appreciate any input.

Thank you, Dan

Share this post


Link to post
sgt1970-442

Just a follow up to my engine missing problem. My 1998 Sportster started running poorly, missing, and loosing power last summer. I tried everything to resolve the problem, and at the end of last season I purchased a rebuilt carb, a Holley 4160. This was from Flying Fish Carburators, in Largo FL. I did not have a chance to run the boat last fall after the rebuild. I also installed a 15 degree wedge plate, to level the carb.

I have run the boat about 6 hrs this week, and it is running better than it ever has. So, I'm not sure how much difference the wedge plate helped, or was it just having the carb rebuilt and jetted properly, but my problem is solved, and I'm thrilled. I hope this may help someone having similar problems. Thank you for the input I received. Dan

dan,

glad to hear its running good.

you could always pull the wedge back off and see if it still runs as good. that would tell you if the carb solved the problem or if you really needed the wedge.

i have the 4150 double pumper like nuttyskier2002 and need the wedge plate.

one thing you might want to do if the old carb was dumping fuel down the back two barrels is change the oil. if it was doing that for awhile it contaminated the oil and will eventually cause bearing wash and motor failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Sunsetter95

If you don't have a PCV on yours for crankcase ventilation, you can do what I did. I drilled and tapped a hole in the rear of the plate and connected that to a PCV valve.

post-144-127525455733_thumb.jpg

post-144-127525457221_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Bachim

Just rebuilt a 4160 holley on mastercraft indmar 351..i found to stop fuel from running,past needle and seat the float adjustment is critical here do to angle...instead of float paralell to bowl it is set to close the needle sooner...did that ran boat wide open in water to verify bowl will not run dry. No angle plate needed. 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...