Ballast or wedge? Response

[Wakes]

I have a response LX and I am looking to improve the boarding wake and either add a wedge and a little bit of bow weight or a couple removable sacs. I am mainly a skier, but I like to get out on the board when the lake gets a little busier midday and most of my friends prefer to wakeboard. I have never had a boat with either option before so I'm looking for some advice as to what will suit my needs best.

I am leaning towards a wedge because of the reduced hassle, my platform has the access for a wedge and that way all I would need to do is plop it down. As far as ballast goes I was thinking one big where the rear seat is and a little sac in the bow or a couple moderately sized sacs beside the engine. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 900-1200lbs of water total. I am leaning that way because of the reduced cost but based on my readings it is my understanding that many people prefer the wake with just ballast, but I have never found out why. With my ideas which way will throw the best wake(do I have enough weight to match the wedge etc) and how will their shape properties differ?

How long would it take to fill/empty 2-3 sacs with a combined weight in the area of 1000lbs with one pump? Are pumps/sacs reliable and built to last?

Is either method easier on the boat?

I am hoping not to spend too much annd I'm hoping to get a real nice wake without an elaborate ballast system as I will be removing the sacs and only putting them in the boat the odd days we go for a wakeboard. Don't get me wrong though, just because I'd like to keep it simple doesn't mean I don't want some mean pop .

[martinarcher]

I am running just ballast weight because my boat doesn't support using the wedge. If you are looking for a rear seat sac I have one for sale in the classifieds section that might save you some cash. PM if you are interested.

As far as the pumps go, if you are only going to run ballast on certain days I would highly recommend a Tsunami style pump with 10 or so feet of hose. This will allow you to quickly fill the bags by simply throwing a pump overboard without any big time investment of adding a fully integrated system to your boat. These pumps are nice and cheap (about $35) and last a long time and have been really reliable for us (we have four permanently mounted below deck in our ballast system). Once you drain the sac you can fold it up and get it out of your way.

[Wakes]

I am running just ballast weight because my boat doesn't support using the wedge. If you are looking for a rear seat sac I have one for sale in the classifieds section that might save you some cash. PM if you are interested.

As far as the pumps go, if you are only going to run ballast on certain days I would highly recommend a Tsunami style pump with 10 or so feet of hose. This will allow you to quickly fill the bags by simply throwing a pump overboard without any big time investment of adding a fully integrated system to your boat. These pumps are nice and cheap (about $35) and last a long time and have been really reliable for us (we have four permanently mounted below deck in our ballast system). Once you drain the sac you can fold it up and get it out of your way.

Thanks Martin, I definitely don't want an integrated system. Is 1500lbs in the rear of a Response going to be ok? That seems like it is pushing it and I imagine these bags slosh around pretty good on turns if they aren't filled all the way up too.

[stroker-ace]

My 2006 Response came with a power wedge and it creates plenty of wake and I believe 1,400 lbs displacement. I would go wedge for convenience. Something about 1,500 lbs of water sloshing around in a sack that makes me uneasy. To be fair, this is my first boat and the only "sacks" I have experience with are factory MLS.

In short, the wedge works great on the Response in my opinion.

[msuwaterski]

Depending on the pump, it would take you ~ 15 minutes to fill up 2-3 sacs. Once you have done that you will have no room in your boat to move around. Coming from a guy the fills sacs every time I go out, go with the wedge. I am so annoyed with the time and hasle of filling and emptying sacs, plus the added obsticle of having full sacs in the boat, that I am now on the market for a new boat. That new boat will have a wedge and a center ski locker MLS.

[WakeGirl]

I'd go with the free floating wedge paired with a bag up front. 1200 lbs is a lot of weight for that little boat. Most people that I've seen say that they don't like the wedge are referring to the old fixed version. The newer free floating wedge does a much, much better job IME.

[martinarcher]

My 2006 Response came with a power wedge and it creates plenty of wake and I believe 1,400 lbs displacement. I would go wedge for convenience. Something about 1,500 lbs of water sloshing around in a sack that makes me uneasy. To be fair, this is my first boat and the only "sacks" I have experience with are factory MLS.

In short, the wedge works great on the Response in my opinion.

I dunno - call me crazy, but we usually run 1000lbs of ballast and a crew of 5 or 6 in our little Skier. We're addicted to big air and are always looking for ways to go bigger.

Edited October 4, 2009 by martinarcher

[Pistol Pete]

I'd go with the free floating wedge paired with a bag up front. 1200 lbs is a lot of weight for that little boat. Most people that I've seen say that they don't like the wedge are referring to the old fixed version. The newer free floating wedge does a much, much better job IME.

I've noticed when I wake board behind a boat with a diamond hull that the wedge makes a BIG difference. A free floating wedge would definitely be the ticket. Add a sac in the bow, and I think you'd be more than happy. Not much trouble, don't lose too much interior space.

[Sippi]

I have an 03 RLX, and have been right where you are. I have the wedge (that just locks in place), a 680# rear seat bottom sac in place of the back seat, a 580# sac on each side of the engine and two 350# sacs in the bow. I have one pump for each bag and can get everything filled in about 7-8 mins. IMO the wedge doesn't make the wake bigger, but it changes the shape of it giving it a nice lip. If I were you, I'd start with the wedge, the rear seat bottom sac, and about 500 or so in the bow. The weight on the sides of the engine would be the next step up. The bags won't slosh around at all when full, they will slosh around if you don't fill them all the way. We usually have a 4 man crew and it works out great and has a great wake for what it is. Let me know if you have any questions with the weight set up, I've litterally tried every possible combination of weight in that boat!

[stroker-ace]

My 2006 Response came with a power wedge and it creates plenty of wake and I believe 1,400 lbs displacement. I would go wedge for convenience. Something about 1,500 lbs of water sloshing around in a sack that makes me uneasy. To be fair, this is my first boat and the only "sacks" I have experience with are factory MLS.

In short, the wedge works great on the Response in my opinion.

I dunno - call me crazy, but we usually run 1000lbs of ballast and a crew of 5 or 6 in our little Skier. We're addicted to big air and are always looking for ways to go bigger.

well, I am a n00b

[Sippi]

For beginners I always run no wedge no ballast. Yall might wantto just try the wedge and a 440 bag in the bow for now. I might even go ahead and get a 540 or so and fill it about 2/3 the way so if you decide to add more ballast you'll have the front taken car of. If you fill a 540 2/3 the way in front of your bow seat it won't be sloshin around bc there isn't enough room for it to do that. I built a platform in my bow that sits on the risers where the seat is and has a support for the front. It covers the entire bow area, covered it in carpet to match and drilled a drain hole and put handles on it so we can take it out if we need. But it keeps my bags nice and even up there. You could even get a 350 bag for now and if you want to upgrade later you can just add another 350 up there with it. With just the wedge your going to need some weight in the bow or you be propoising the entire time.

[Wakes]

Ok, consensus is basically the wedge with a bit of weight in the bow is the way to go. Cool. Sippi, your setup is huge, do you have any pics of the wake or anyone boarding behind your boat? I am by no means a pro... or even good, I can do some spins and I started trying some inverts last season. That said I'd like a decent wake for the people that will be boarding behind the boat but I don't think we'll be going as big as you or martinarcher are haha. But I'd like to .

How much is a floating wedge worth? Are they relatively easy to install without risking damage to the boat? Can they be had used?

[Sippi]

Yeah, I have some pics somewhere I'll see if I can get something up tomorrow. Does the floating wedge do anything differently than the wedge?

[Wakes]

Yeah, I have some pics somewhere I'll see if I can get something up tomorrow. Does the floating wedge do anything differently than the wedge?

I think what they say about the floating wedge is that it finds the sweet spot. I have no experience with either though. It may come with a differently shaped foil as well, I've noticed some wedges look angled like airplane wings and I believe some are rectangles.

[martinarcher]

Just a word of advice before anyone gets the idea of throwing 1000-1500lbs of water in a little DD. Start small and build your set-up to where you are comfortable. We had a guy coaching us this weekend and he was absolutely amazed by my wake and couldn't say enough about it. He usually rides behind an X-Star and was really impressed how easily he could pull inverts off a little DD like ours.

We have certainly learned to drive the boat when weighted to keep water off the bow and out of the boat. It is really incredible how low the boat sits when we are slammed for surfing. It is something that I would recommend learning by building up to it. We started with 300lbs in the back of the boat and bought another sac, then another, etc until we found a set-up we really liked. As we built the weight up we learned how to drive the boat to handle the weight. Now I forget how the boat drives empty since I'm the only one who slalom skis and wakeboards anymore.

Just have fun with it. It's cool to know your DD will still run the course, but hold it's own when it comes to throwing a wake for some fun in the air on a wakeboard.

[WakeGirl]

Yeah, I have some pics somewhere I'll see if I can get something up tomorrow. Does the floating wedge do anything differently than the wedge?

I think what they say about the floating wedge is that it finds the sweet spot. I have no experience with either though. It may come with a differently shaped foil as well, I've noticed some wedges look angled like airplane wings and I believe some are rectangles.

Yes, that's probably the best way to describe it. Unfortunately I have experience with both wedges on the same boat.

[Sippi]

Good stuff martin, couldn't be more right on with that! We started out small and worked up to what we have now. A buddy of mine that rides with me litterally everyday is actually "semi-pro" I guess you could say. He won the worlds in reno a couple years ago for mens II division and has a hyperlite sponser. He had an 02 xstar that another buddy of mine bought from him, so this year he's been in my boat everyday. Another one of our friends that is at the same level as him came down last weekend with a supra 24ssv GG edition. We rode behind it with my boat being the chase boat. After one set behind it, he got back in my boat and said let's fill em up, I'd rather ride behind your boat, the wake is so much better. I couldn't believe it but it made me smile. He likes riding behind the older SANTE hulls the most, so that's why I have so much weight in the back of the boat. It planes just fine with the 911 prop on it, and we don't take rollers bc we are heavier in the back but it gives that steep wake that's really fun to ride behind. I'll post some pics soon, got a good one of him doing a huge Indy glide off the dub behind my boat that is awesome!

But yea as long as you pay attention to rollers you'll be fine. But I never have surfed behind my boat so I couldn't imagine driving it like that. That's a different ballgame!

[martinarcher]

Good stuff martin, couldn't be more right on with that! We started out small and worked up to what we have now. A buddy of mine that rides with me litterally everyday is actually "semi-pro" I guess you could say. He won the worlds in reno a couple years ago for mens II division and has a hyperlite sponser. He had an 02 xstar that another buddy of mine bought from him, so this year he's been in my boat everyday. Another one of our friends that is at the same level as him came down last weekend with a supra 24ssv GG edition. We rode behind it with my boat being the chase boat. After one set behind it, he got back in my boat and said let's fill em up, I'd rather ride behind your boat, the wake is so much better. I couldn't believe it but it made me smile. He likes riding behind the older SANTE hulls the most, so that's why I have so much weight in the back of the boat. It planes just fine with the 911 prop on it, and we don't take rollers bc we are heavier in the back but it gives that steep wake that's really fun to ride behind. I'll post some pics soon, got a good one of him doing a huge Indy glide off the dub behind my boat that is awesome!

But yea as long as you pay attention to rollers you'll be fine. But I never have surfed behind my boat so I couldn't imagine driving it like that. That's a different ballgame!

That's exactly how I was. I told him after hearing that all the time and effort to plumb in our system was worth while. I had a huge smile on my face.

Surfing is similar, all the weight is rear on the boat so you just keep the bow or the non-surf side toward the oncoming rollers. I'm sure your boat would throw a surf wake a lot like mine. It's no 247 wave, but it will push you right along without a rope.

Here's a thread with some pics of the surf and wakeboard wake and a link to a video I did of the entire ballast system walk through (plumbing/pumps/switches). Check it out if you guys are interested in doing your own. I made it in after going through lots of research myself. Hope it helps!

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index....l=93+skier+wake

[martinarcher]

Here's a pic from Sat....

[Wakes]

Good stuff martin, couldn't be more right on with that! We started out small and worked up to what we have now. A buddy of mine that rides with me litterally everyday is actually "semi-pro" I guess you could say. He won the worlds in reno a couple years ago for mens II division and has a hyperlite sponser. He had an 02 xstar that another buddy of mine bought from him, so this year he's been in my boat everyday. Another one of our friends that is at the same level as him came down last weekend with a supra 24ssv GG edition. We rode behind it with my boat being the chase boat. After one set behind it, he got back in my boat and said let's fill em up, I'd rather ride behind your boat, the wake is so much better. I couldn't believe it but it made me smile. He likes riding behind the older SANTE hulls the most, so that's why I have so much weight in the back of the boat. It planes just fine with the 911 prop on it, and we don't take rollers bc we are heavier in the back but it gives that steep wake that's really fun to ride behind. I'll post some pics soon, got a good one of him doing a huge Indy glide off the dub behind my boat that is awesome!

But yea as long as you pay attention to rollers you'll be fine. But I never have surfed behind my boat so I couldn't imagine driving it like that. That's a different ballgame!

That's exactly how I was. I told him after hearing that all the time and effort to plumb in our system was worth while. I had a huge smile on my face.

Surfing is similar, all the weight is rear on the boat so you just keep the bow or the non-surf side toward the oncoming rollers. I'm sure your boat would throw a surf wake a lot like mine. It's no 247 wave, but it will push you right along without a rope.

Here's a thread with some pics of the surf and wakeboard wake and a link to a video I did of the entire ballast system walk through (plumbing/pumps/switches). Check it out if you guys are interested in doing your own. I made it in after going through lots of research myself. Hope it helps!

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index....l=93+skier+wake

Nice wake man. All of that with two sacs.... that's all I need and it would save me a bunch of money. I'd like the convienience of a wedge though I think.

[martinarcher]

Good stuff martin, couldn't be more right on with that! We started out small and worked up to what we have now. A buddy of mine that rides with me litterally everyday is actually "semi-pro" I guess you could say. He won the worlds in reno a couple years ago for mens II division and has a hyperlite sponser. He had an 02 xstar that another buddy of mine bought from him, so this year he's been in my boat everyday. Another one of our friends that is at the same level as him came down last weekend with a supra 24ssv GG edition. We rode behind it with my boat being the chase boat. After one set behind it, he got back in my boat and said let's fill em up, I'd rather ride behind your boat, the wake is so much better. I couldn't believe it but it made me smile. He likes riding behind the older SANTE hulls the most, so that's why I have so much weight in the back of the boat. It planes just fine with the 911 prop on it, and we don't take rollers bc we are heavier in the back but it gives that steep wake that's really fun to ride behind. I'll post some pics soon, got a good one of him doing a huge Indy glide off the dub behind my boat that is awesome!

But yea as long as you pay attention to rollers you'll be fine. But I never have surfed behind my boat so I couldn't imagine driving it like that. That's a different ballgame!

That's exactly how I was. I told him after hearing that all the time and effort to plumb in our system was worth while. I had a huge smile on my face.

Surfing is similar, all the weight is rear on the boat so you just keep the bow or the non-surf side toward the oncoming rollers. I'm sure your boat would throw a surf wake a lot like mine. It's no 247 wave, but it will push you right along without a rope.

Here's a thread with some pics of the surf and wakeboard wake and a link to a video I did of the entire ballast system walk through (plumbing/pumps/switches). Check it out if you guys are interested in doing your own. I made it in after going through lots of research myself. Hope it helps!

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index....l=93+skier+wake

Nice wake man. All of that with two sacs.... that's all I need and it would save me a bunch of money. I'd like the convienience of a wedge though I think.

Yep. That's two 500lb V-Drive Sacs. One on each side of the dog box slid as far back as possible against the back seat.

[Michigan boarder]

I am running just ballast weight because my boat doesn't support using the wedge. If you are looking for a rear seat sac I have one for sale in the classifieds section that might save you some cash.

Can you sit on the sac after you've filled it, so you still have seating?

[WakeGirl]

If you have the right sacks (like Pro X) that are durable enough, yes.

[martinarcher]

I am running just ballast weight because my boat doesn't support using the wedge. If you are looking for a rear seat sac I have one for sale in the classifieds section that might save you some cash.

Can you sit on the sac after you've filled it, so you still have seating?

Yep - if you watch this video you can see how my system is set-up. We have all Pro-X bags and they are tough.

After we fill the bags, the drain and fill line ball valves are closed (to prevent the weight of someone from pushing the water out the drain) and that seems to be the favorite seat for most. While you're riding the crew is usually snapping pics and taking video while lounging back on the bags. The bags also don't keep you from using the seats. My buddies wife got a good hour and a half nap laying on the back seat while we boarded and changed riders. I thought the water dripping off boards as we passed them over her would wake her up, but she slept through it!

Edited October 5, 2009 by martinarcher

[SoDakSooner]

New here, post piqued my interest. 2000 response LX. We run 250 to 300 lbs on each side of the box and a wedge. Still some room to move and not difficult to walk over. Makes a good wake, but hoping to move up to a vlx this weekend if all goes well. Also have about 100 lbs of iron in the locker. If we have a decent sized crew it makes really nice, well shaped wake, but filling the bags has always been a PITA.