Echelon Ballast or Fat Sacs

[amarfanhar]

I'm looking for some advice on weighing down my low profile Echelon direct drive boat for surfing. Has anyone tried this with good success. I'm heading out on the lake today with 3 400 pound fatsacs and a surf board hoping to get a decent wave. Any suggestions on weigh placement, weight and success stories? Thanks,

Todd

[martinarcher]

I'm looking for some advice on weighing down my low profile Echelon direct drive boat for surfing. Has anyone tried this with good success. I'm heading out on the lake today with 3 400 pound fatsacs and a surf board hoping to get a decent wave. Any suggestions on weigh placement, weight and success stories? Thanks,

Todd

Tony,

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew! It's an awesome site with tons of great info.

As for you question about surfing behind your boat....I have a similar sized boat as yourself. I have an 88' Skier which is probably worse for surfing than your boat due to the very light weight and small size. Your Echelon will weigh a little more to start than my boat. We have been able to surf ropeless behind out little Skier after playing quite a bit with our ballast set-up. Here's a link to a thread that talks about my set-up and has some set-up and wake pics....

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index....539&hl=surf

Just remember - any added weight should be added to the surf side of the boat. We run about 1000lbs on the surf/rear of the boat. We sink the surf rear corner to almost the rub rail (about 2 inches from the water when sitting idle). I also have a bow sac that we have run up to 400 lbs in, but it seems to take a bit of the push out of the wave. it does seem to lengthen it a bit though. We typically run with the front sac empty. The best thing to do is to start where someone else has luck with a similar boat and then tweak your set-up from there.

Good luck and have fun!

[amarfanhar]

Martin,

Thanks for the advice. I took it out yesterday and was able to surf the wave without the rope all night. I set it up with two 450lbs sacks behind the engine and on the side I was surfing and had 2 150 pound guys lean off the tower and sit on the side. It kicks out a nice glassy wave with a curl like your photos. I appretiate the insight. I now need to rig up a ballast system to fill it effortlessly like you have. How did you rig that??? Sweet setup. Its fun to have a 11k boat you can surf on, wakeboard on and ski with the best of them. Thanks for the inspiration.

Todd

I'm looking for some advice on weighing down my low profile Echelon direct drive boat for surfing. Has anyone tried this with good success. I'm heading out on the lake today with 3 400 pound fatsacs and a surf board hoping to get a decent wave. Any suggestions on weigh placement, weight and success stories? Thanks,

Todd

Tony,

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew! It's an awesome site with tons of great info.

As for you question about surfing behind your boat....I have a similar sized boat as yourself. I have an 88' Skier which is probably worse for surfing than your boat due to the very light weight and small size. Your Echelon will weigh a little more to start than my boat. We have been able to surf ropeless behind out little Skier after playing quite a bit with our ballast set-up. Here's a link to a thread that talks about my set-up and has some set-up and wake pics....

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index....539&hl=surf

Just remember - any added weight should be added to the surf side of the boat. We run about 1000lbs on the surf/rear of the boat. We sink the surf rear corner to almost the rub rail (about 2 inches from the water when sitting idle). I also have a bow sac that we have run up to 400 lbs in, but it seems to take a bit of the push out of the wave. it does seem to lengthen it a bit though. We typically run with the front sac empty. The best thing to do is to start where someone else has luck with a similar boat and then tweak your set-up from there.

Good luck and have fun!

[martinarcher]

No problem Todd. Glad you got to go ropeless one your first outing with your new ballast!

I feel the same way. I love the fact that we have around 10k in our boat and my goal was to make a ballast system that would let us play V-Drive games when we weren't slalom skiing. It certainly throws a big enough wake for our skill levels and a nice surf wake that we can surf ropeless on!

I took a quick video with me narrating on how my boat's ballast system is set-up. Hope it's not too confusing. Sorry for the bad camera work, I was trying to work around the boat pointing out parts of the system while holding my flashlight. Let me know if you have any questions....

[amarfanhar]

Nice plumbing!! Looks like a sweet setup. That took some serious work. This type of project will be a little down on my to do list. If you use your ballast everytime your out I'm sure its worth it.

Thanks for the video. That will be very usefull to all us direct drive boaters who want a serious ballast system.

No problem Todd. Glad you got to go ropeless one your first outing with your new ballast!

I feel the same way. I love the fact that we have around 10k in our boat and my goal was to make a ballast system that would let us play V-Drive games when we weren't slalom skiing. It certainly throws a big enough wake for our skill levels and a nice surf wake that we can surf ropeless on!

I took a quick video with me narrating on how my boat's ballast system is set-up. Hope it's not too confusing. Sorry for the bad camera work, I was trying to work around the boat pointing out parts of the system while holding my flashlight. Let me know if you have any questions....

[martinarcher]

Thanks Todd. Yeah it was a lot of work but worth it. Me and one of my main crew members busted it out in about 4 days of solid work. Luckily he had a camera that we could snake through the bilge when running the hose to the front sac and wiring to the switch panel otherwise it would have taken me another day to get the wiring and hosing to the front of the boat (a bit more hair too!). Finished it early Sat morning by wiring in the switch panel and hit the lake for a test run. After the pumps primed it has worked great.

We do use it every time we are out. As soon as we launch they plug in the bags and start filling the ballast while I'm parking the truck. It is ready to go by the time I get to the boat. Once we cross the no-wake zone it's time to strap in and ride.

[Michigan boarder]

This is VERY good stuff to know from another Echelon owner. I've been kicking around getting into this sport and didn't know I could pull it off in an Echelon.

There is no mention of the wedge, is that not a factor at the surfing speeds? I realize the 88 skier would not have it, but did you ride with your wedge down Todd?

Thanks guys for posting some great info.

[martinarcher]

This is VERY good stuff to know from another Echelon owner. I've been kicking around getting into this sport and didn't know I could pull it off in an Echelon.

There is no mention of the wedge, is that not a factor at the surfing speeds? I realize the 88 skier would not have it, but did you ride with your wedge down Todd?

Thanks guys for posting some great info.

I wish I could throw a wedge into the mix, but at the very least it would require me to reinforce the heck out of my transom and then run a floating wedge to correct for the wrong transom angle. Someday......for now I'm happy with what we have with the ballast. My goals for this year were enough wake for inverts and a big enough wave to surf ropeless and I have both. Now if I could just ride away from that invert instead of falling every time.

I bet you Echelon guys that have wedges would see a nice improvement to what this amount of ballast would already provide.

[amarfanhar]

MB,

I don't have a wedge. Just fatsac ballast weight. I put all of the sac weight I had on the side we were surfing. One sac under the back seat and the other just to the side of the motor. About 800 pounds of water. It would be even better with even more weight. I also had a buddie leaning off the side of the boat hanging onto the tower and another sitting on the sacs in the back. It was a riot. The wave wasn't huge by v-drive standards but big enough to surf on for as long as you wanted without a rope. If I had another 400 pound sac it would have been even better. If you had a wedge I think it would help. I only have a wedgie.

Its fun to be able to surf in the landlocked Utah Rocky Mountain Lakes. The optimal speed for us was about 9.8- 10.2mph. Clocked on my car Garmin 760 GPS that I have been using on my boat and I love (Music MP3 player, GPS guideance tracking and speed on the lake and bluetooth for my cell). That is for a completely different topic.

Todd

This is VERY good stuff to know from another Echelon owner. I've been kicking around getting into this sport and didn't know I could pull it off in an Echelon.

There is no mention of the wedge, is that not a factor at the surfing speeds? I realize the 88 skier would not have it, but did you ride with your wedge down Todd?

Thanks guys for posting some great info.

[JDubya]

Any updates or changes to your stetup Todd.

I am trying to decide on a set up for us. Is there really a lot of difference between even weight and putting it all on one side?

Option 1 - Fat Seat (650 plbs)

Option 2 - Inboard Side Sack (700 lbs)

The problem I have is that if I go with the Inboard sack it takes up more floor space which is precious in a closed bow. The seat bottom would fit nicely under the rear sear (when it is in the sundeck postition), but having a respectable wake shape is important. Not looking for a huge wake, just something rideable. If I want big, I'll ride on my in-law's 247.

Will I really get a substantially better wake if I put all the weight on one side in an Echelon.

[amarfanhar]

Any updates or changes to your stetup Todd.

I am trying to decide on a set up for us. Is there really a lot of difference between even weight and putting it all on one side?

Option 1 - Fat Seat (650 plbs)

Option 2 - Inboard Side Sack (700 lbs)

The problem I have is that if I go with the Inboard sack it takes up more floor space which is precious in a closed bow. The seat bottom would fit nicely under the rear sear (when it is in the sundeck postition), but having a respectable wake shape is important. Not looking for a huge wake, just something rideable. If I want big, I'll ride on my in-law's 247.

Will I really get a substantially better wake if I put all the weight on one side in an Echelon.

Ramman,

I just got back from a trip down south to take my last couple boat rides. i just bought a couple of fatsacs 2 vdrive 450lbs and one fatsac 750lbs. The best configuration I found for surfing is as much weight as possible on theback side you plan to surf on. I had 750lbs under the back seat (when in sundeck position) pushed to the surf side and then I stacked a full 450 as close to the other sack going up the pathway by the motor box. I was surfing comfortably with my 120lbs wife driving and my little 2 year old holding the flag. I have borrowed my friends Blue Lake inland surfer board and that board is sweet behing my echelon for surfing. No big tricks just carving hard up and down the wave. Its a good wave for a little boat.

I think I could have stacked another 450 on top of the two sacks and still been OK on not swamping the boat with as few of people we had on the boat. I don't have a wedge but I'm thinking of getting one. That would be great to free up space.

One thing I noticed was a little spray from the teak swim deck that was a little annoying. It kept spraying water on top of the surf board when I was in the sweet spot of the wave. Not a big deal but annoying.

Hope that helps.

Todd

[JDubya]

Ramman,

I just got back from a trip down south to take my last couple boat rides. i just bought a couple of fatsacs 2 vdrive 450lbs and one fatsac 750lbs. The best configuration I found for surfing is as much weight as possible on theback side you plan to surf on. I had 750lbs under the back seat (when in sundeck position) pushed to the surf side and then I stacked a full 450 as close to the other sack going up the pathway by the motor box. I was surfing comfortably with my 120lbs wife driving and my little 2 year old holding the flag. I have borrowed my friends Blue Lake inland surfer board and that board is sweet behing my echelon for surfing. No big tricks just carving hard up and down the wave. Its a good wave for a little boat.

I think I could have stacked another 450 on top of the two sacks and still been OK on not swamping the boat with as few of people we had on the boat. I don't have a wedge but I'm thinking of getting one. That would be great to free up space.

One thing I noticed was a little spray from the teak swim deck that was a little annoying. It kept spraying water on top of the surf board when I was in the sweet spot of the wave. Not a big deal but annoying.

Hope that helps.

Todd

Thanks Todd for the feedback. I am thinking that I am going to give one of these a try.

Inboard Surf Sac

It will be a little less weight than you but we usualy run with a crew of 4 or more that should make up for it. Did you try any weight up front?

We are also planning on getting a wedge. Just trying to convince myself (and the CFO) that I should spring for the floating wedge over a standard. Might have to wait for the bonus check in the spring to pull the trigger on the wedge...unless I come across a good deal.

Where is the water line when you are loaded down for surfing? I am wondering if it would be too low to surf on the drivers side because of the fuel vent. Thanks again for the feedback!!!!

Edited October 15, 2009 by Ramman17

[amarfanhar]

Did you try any weight up front?

No I haven't. But I think when surfing you want all the weight in the back. And with our direct drive boats we already have a bunch of weight in the middle of the boat. You want the weight as far in the back corner as possible.

Where is the water line when you are loaded down for surfing? I am wondering if it would be too low to surf on the drivers side because of the fuel vent. Thanks again for the feedback!!!!

The water line is not quite to the rub rail but about 6 inches away. The swim deck is swamped on the surf side.

Good luck with the surf sac. I 'm sure it will work great for surfing it just may not have as many functions if you like to air chair, wakeboard or wakeskate. Good luck.

Todd

[Michigan boarder]

Well, Olive hooked me up! I now have the Hyperlite Broadcast 5.6 and 4.9 and the next step is the ballast. I am so stoked to surf next summer (It's neat to actually use the word stoked to reference it's originally intended verb....surfing!).

Does anyone have any further comments on how to set up a surf wake? My crew will mostly be my wife and kids who will be 12, 11 and 5 next summer (and all 4 are bean poles). Occasionally I'll have some big dudes on the boat, but my focus is getting this set up for family outings. Based on the comments above, here's what I'm thinking:

- Wedge down

- (2) 750# V-drive sacs...one in back under rear seat pushed to the surf side and one along engine pushed back into sac under seat (L shape)

Will that do it? I am leary on putting any weight in the ski locker, but should I put some weight in there and reduce the weight in the back?

[martinarcher]

Well, Olive hooked me up! I now have the Hyperlite Broadcast 5.6 and 4.9 and the next step is the ballast. I am so stoked to surf next summer (It's neat to actually use the word stoked to reference it's originally intended verb....surfing!).

Does anyone have any further comments on how to set up a surf wake? My crew will mostly be my wife and kids who will be 12, 11 and 5 next summer (and all 4 are bean poles). Occasionally I'll have some big dudes on the boat, but my focus is getting this set up for family outings. Based on the comments above, here's what I'm thinking:

- Wedge down

- (2) 750# V-drive sacs...one in back under rear seat pushed to the surf side and one along engine pushed back into sac under seat (L shape)

Will that do it? I am leary on putting any weight in the ski locker, but should I put some weight in there and reduce the weight in the back?

That's what I would do. We fill the ski locker with about 300lbs. We run the wedge down and about 800-1000 lbs of water on the surf side. The 1000lbs are on the surf side of the dog box. I don't run any weight in the rear of the boat at all except people ballast, the wedge does plenty. If your crew is small you might need both those 750's. The best way to learn how to set up the boat is play with what you have.

The key is starting small and learning how to drive with the boat slammed. I would drop the wedge and throw one 750 on the surf side of the dogbox touching the rear seat. Put everyone on the surf side toward the back of the boat. That will be plenty to get a wave kicking. I'm sure you could ride that ropeless and it won't be too scary to drive. We don't have near the freeboard the V-Drive guys do so driving is a bit trickier, but you'll get the hang of it.

Good luck! It's a blast!

[Michigan boarder]

That's what I would do. We fill the ski locker with about 300lbs. We run the wedge down and about 800-1000 lbs of water on the surf side. The 1000lbs are on the surf side of the dog box. I don't run any weight in the rear of the boat at all except people ballast, the wedge does plenty. If your crew is small you might need both those 750's. The best way to learn how to set up the boat is play with what you have.

The key is starting small and learning how to drive with the boat slammed. I would drop the wedge and throw one 750 on the surf side of the dogbox touching the rear seat. Put everyone on the surf side toward the back of the boat. That will be plenty to get a wave kicking. I'm sure you could ride that ropeless and it won't be too scary to drive. We don't have near the freeboard the V-Drive guys do so driving is a bit trickier, but you'll get the hang of it.

Good luck! It's a blast!

That sounds like a good idea. I also thought the ski locker ballast would be good for wakeboarding, and could see me using that bag a lot as it is not in anyone's way. My ski locker is always empty otherwise.

And I totally understand the driving thing. My thought was to fill it and practice driving at speed, turning, stopping, etc. for a while before anyone gets behind the boat.

Also on the bags, can I partially fill them or do they need to be completely filled? So if I buy 2 750's, can I only put 500 in each if it seems the boat is weighted to heavy? Or do they get all sloppy? I'd like to be able to take them with on a couple of other boats that may need the full 1500lbs. I have a buddy with a 23LSV and another with a Nautique, who have never surfed and are using me as the trial and error guy.

[martinarcher]

That sounds like a good idea. I also thought the ski locker ballast would be good for wakeboarding, and could see me using that bag a lot as it is not in anyone's way. My ski locker is always empty otherwise.

And I totally understand the driving thing. My thought was to fill it and practice driving at speed, turning, stopping, etc. for a while before anyone gets behind the boat.

Also on the bags, can I partially fill them or do they need to be completely filled? So if I buy 2 750's, can I only put 500 in each if it seems the boat is weighted to heavy? Or do they get all sloppy? I'd like to be able to take them with on a couple of other boats that may need the full 1500lbs. I have a buddy with a 23LSV and another with a Nautique, who have never surfed and are using me as the trial and error guy.

Right on.

You don't have to fill them all the way, but they do "sit" better when they are full simply because they take their rectangular shape when full.

That said, if they aren't full and are not stacked, they don't really go anywhere ot slide around. If you are going to need to stack them that is when you want them fill them up first. Otherwise it's no big deal. Like you said, that will give you more weight to play with in a 23 foot Bu.

We paritally stack our 500's on the surf side so the rear one has to be full first. We usually run a partially filled 500 in the walkway while boarding when we have a small crew and it stays put fine. If there's a 500lb bag on the floor that is 2/3 full it's almost impossible to move!

[Levi900RR]

Right on.

You don't have to fill them all the way, but they do "sit" better when they are full simply because they take their rectangular shape when full.

That said, if they aren't full and are not stacked, they don't really go anywhere ot slide around. If you are going to need to stack them that is when you want them fill them up first. Otherwise it's no big deal. Like you said, that will give you more weight to play with in a 23 foot Bu.

We paritally stack our 500's on the surf side so the rear one has to be full first. We usually run a partially filled 500 in the walkway while boarding when we have a small crew and it stays put fine. If there's a 500lb bag on the floor that is 2/3 full it's almost impossible to move!

No joke, the first time I tried my ballast out the drain side didn't work that great. It took 4 guys to sling that sac over the side of the boat, and one of us ended up in the lake...

[Ndawg12]

No joke, the first time I tried my ballast out the drain side didn't work that great. It took 4 guys to sling that sac over the side of the boat, and one of us ended up in the lake...

I learned the hard way that an uber pump doesn't float very long!! Me and one other dude had to wrestle 2 500lb sacs and 1 400lb sac over to the center locker and then rotate the bag so the valve is properly positioned. Not fun!!!