Who should pay for the damage ?

[Michigan boarder]

I'd say the biggest piece of info lacking is who asked to drive. Did the boat owner say "Hey, do you want to drive for a bit?" Or "You feel like driving while I grab some sun?" the he would be 100% at fault. If the guest asked "Can I drive for a while?" then he bears some responsibility. Either way, I would feel I am the owner, I am responsible, shame on me for letting this happen. If they were that close to everything the owner should have seen what was going on too. When someone else is driving my boat I have my head on a swivel like I'm still driving.

I have been boating on inland Michigan lakes for 25 years, but none of them have bouys or the navigation markers that other places do. On vacation in Naples, FL going thru the channels and bays I would be lost reading any of that stuff.

[Baddog]

My rule is: you break it, you bought it.

If someone else is driving and soemthing breaks through normal wear and tear, owner eats it. Some dumb as drives through the rock field, he eats the whole thing.

I absolutely disagree. It's your boat, you're ultimately responsible for whatever happens to it. Period. You should know the skills level of whoever you put in control of your boat AND you should still be paying attention to HOW they're operating it just in case. No one drives my boat unless I'm 100% confident in their abilities to do so safely.

Because you hand off responsibility of operation doesn't mean you hand off complete responsibility for anything that happens to it. Handing off operational control to a kid i.e. doesn't make the kid responsible for anything that happens. I know kids who are better boat drivers than some of the wally acting idiots in I/O's around here. That the driver had previously owned a boat doesn't mean he knew anything about how to safely, properly, and responsibly operate one. We all see plenty of examples of that on the water.

The whole situation sucks for sure. But ultimately IMO it's your your boat and as such it's your responsibility. If he's a friend at all, if he's a responsible person at all, if he has any decency at all he'll offer to pay the deductible. If not he's no friend and as such should be cut loose immediately. If there was no insurance than the owner deserves to eat the whole thing just out of sheer ignorance.

Ed

Sorry Baddog, I normally agree with you but not on this. I only let people drive my boat in areas that I know are safe. If something still happens, then I am responsible, period. Now if the driver disregarded the boundaries I gave him, then he's stuck with the bill. Either way, it's a bad situation. I always feel a little uneasy when someone asks me to drive their boat, boundaries or not.

Alrighty then, let me restate: if, as the OP said, he was a friend, then the friend would immediately offer to at least pay half without any prompting what so ever. If he doesn't then he's not really a friend and the owner shall know of at least one person that will never set foot on his boat again, and hopefully learned the lesson of constant vigilence whether he is at the helm or not.

[luvtheBU]

I think no matter what the owner is the one who will wind up paying but if I was driving someone elses boat and I disregarded dangerous areas or buoy markers I would absolutely pay, I'd probably pay either way. If I had a friend driving my boat and they wrecked it I probably wouldn't expect them to pay, but I would never loan my boat out. Tough situation.

[skyskier]

Let's say you and your buddy were in a car instead of a boat. Let's also say your buddy got a ticket for veering off the road and hitting something. Now is there any question who pays? Let's go even further and say the damage was 25.00 instead of 2500.00. Do you think your buddy would pull out 25.00 and accept responsibility? Of course he would! The dollar amount has nothing to do with who is responsible, but it certainly clouds the guilty persons judgement of what is fair as the figure climbs. I say the driver should pay, but it would be a huge gesture for the owner to offer to pay half.

[spinxt]

IMHO, these "my buddy broke my boat, and won't pay for it" threads are getting rediculous. At the end of the day, the owner is responsible for the boat. The owner makes the ultimate decision on who is invited aboard, who can drive, etc. $hit happens, that's what we have insurance for. If you trust someone enough to drive your boat, be prepared for the chance that something might happen (just like something might happen when you are driving). In this case, if your buddy were as concerned about the safety of his crew/boat as he was about his tan, perhaps the situation could have been avoided all together.

[Stanley Wheelhouse]

owner offers to pay and friend should offer to pay (as a pilot if i take a friend up flying and we crash with him at the controls i am responsible as i am the captain of the ship and the owner of the aircraft)

ultimately it is the owner and captains fault.

[mellen_mpz]

I had a very similar situation happen to me a couple years ago. My buddy was driving my boat after a day on the lake. He said "hey lets go check out a waterfall at tip of the lake". "Sure why not" I said. I had been drinking and he was sober and he drove our boat a lot so he took the controls. As we came up on signs that said "danger, unmarked obstacles" he said "its no big deal, I had my boat back here last week" (of course his boat is a jet boat and mine was an I/O). Sure enough we ended up on the rocks. Damaged the hull, skag, and destroyed the prop.

$1500 in damage and it took him over a year to pay me only $600. Didnt ruin the friendship but put a serious dent in it.

I have always thought that if I am borrowing something from someone or even just using something for a few minutes and I damage it, I should pay in full. I scraped up a surfboard of a friend of mines about 10 years ago and wrote him a check on the spot. The lawyer should man up and take responsibility for his actions and be grateful that he has access to a boat in the first place. A little integrity goes a long way!

[NorCaliBu]

The lawyer should man up and take responsibility for his actions and be grateful that he has access to a boat in the first place. A little integrity goes a long way!

Two words you hardly ever see used in the same sentence...unless it's regarding a lack of...

Edited September 2, 2009 by NorCaliBu

[mellen_mpz]

The lawyer should man up and take responsibility for his actions and be grateful that he has access to a boat in the first place. A little integrity goes a long way!

Two words you hardly ever see used in the same sentence...unless it's regarding a lack of...

true....and if he doesnt pay, you should hire him to sue himself!!!!

[WakeGirl]

I know the area that the OP is describing very well. The fact that the driver went between the marker & the shore makes this a really dumb@ss move by him, end of story on that point so let's get that out of the way right now. The spot is well marked & to go between the shore & marker, you have to be very close to the shore. Bad idea by anyone, but especially someone driving a boat that isn't theirs. It's sort of akin to borrowing someone's car & then proceeding to hit the biggest pothole in the road that you can find, maybe bending a rim & more than likely throwing the car out of alignment.

Now with that said, you take a risk by allowing others to drive your boat. How you mitigate that risk is the question here. The answer to that in my case is that I don't let people drive any of my vehicles (cars/trucks, boats, motorcycles....anything at all) that I don't know well & am comfortable with on many points (skill as a driver, willingness to accept responsibility, etc etc). I hate to say it, but I think that this will be one of those expensive lessons for the owner that we are sometimes handed in life.

The one time in the past 5 years that I've let anyone other than slider drive my car, it ended up as my example above - out of alignment & with a bent rim. Rims & alignments on Audis are not cheap either, so that was an expensive lesson for me. It's not often that I let people drive my stuff.

[Malibudude]

I know the area that the OP is describing very well. The fact that the driver went between the marker & the shore makes this a really dumb@ss move by him, end of story on that point so let's get that out of the way right now. The spot is well marked & to go between the shore & marker, you have to be very close to the shore. Bad idea by anyone, but especially someone driving a boat that isn't theirs. It's sort of akin to borrowing someone's car & then proceeding to hit the biggest pothole in the road that you can find, maybe bending a rim & more than likely throwing the car out of alignment.

Now with that said, you take a risk by allowing others to drive your boat. How you mitigate that risk is the question here. The answer to that in my case is that I don't let people drive any of my vehicles (cars/trucks, boats, motorcycles....anything at all) that I don't know well & am comfortable with on many points (skill as a driver, willingness to accept responsibility, etc etc). I hate to say it, but I think that this will be one of those expensive lessons for the owner that we are sometimes handed in life.

The one time in the past 5 years that I've let anyone other than slider drive my car, it ended up as my example above - out of alignment & with a bent rim. Rims & alignments on Audis are not cheap either, so that was an expensive lesson for me. It's not often that I let people drive my stuff.

Even if you are in the circle of trust, unlikely you'll get to drive anything since you'll have to pry the steering wheel out of your hands first....

[WakeGirl]

Too true.

[doughickey]

Hmmm... how many people make the following statement to someone BEFORE they let them drive their boat:

"If you run in to anything or cause any damage regardless of cause or circumstance, you are personally responsible and will have to pay for all damages. Also, I don't want to make any claims on my own insurance, even if they will cover it, because it will affect my future premiums."

I suspect very few..... but , if somebody made this "verbal contract", there would be no debate fater the fact.

The reality is, the above would cause an interesting discussion..... likely resulting in hard feelings. Damaged friendships. We're afraid to have this debate in advance.... so we don't. Also, few people would likely accept the driving responsibility. So we let it go.And hope there is no mishap. But, things do happen.

So.... what do we all do? None of us make the above agreement. Result, if a mishap occurs....

.... the OWNER needs to eat it.

Nobody drives my boat unless I have 100% confidence in them. Even then, I stay alert.... ready to intervene. And if a mishap occurs, as angry as I might get, I know it's me that is responsible.

[DONTW8]

Sequel:

The owner paid for the repairs. I picked up his old Sunsetter for him with my Duramax and we went to Billy Chinook and had 3 guests. . My ski buddy says the attorney guest driver has said he will reimburse Rick for the repair. I actually believe that will happen as they are golf buddies and I have exposure a couple of times per year to this fellow and he seems to be responsible.

As wake girl and obski pointed out the area where the damage occurred is clearly marked, is way to one side of the main channel, and is very close to a rock slide area at Lake Bill Chinook. For years it was not marked at all because it was so far out of the traffic. There Is No Way Baby that any body should be over there in a powerboat.

The 3 in our crew all drive each other's boats because we rotate boats. I do most of the boat towing with the duramax although on occasion one of the others tows mine the 46 miles to Billy Chinook. I will occasionally will be the boat driver in the other's boats even when the owner is not the skier. We are very efficient at launching, docking, and ski rotation because each of us has done every job repeatedly.

We frequently have other guests who are not regular boaters. We enjoy having new guests on board and they always seem to have a good time.

[Wakes]

Sequel:

The owner paid for the repairs. I picked up his old Sunsetter for him with my Duramax and we went to Billy Chinook and had 3 guests. . My ski buddy says the attorney guest driver has said he will reimburse Rick for the repair. I actually believe that will happen as they are golf buddies and I have exposure a couple of times per year to this fellow and he seems to be responsible.

As wake girl and obski pointed out the area where the damage occurred is clearly marked, is way to one side of the main channel, and is very close to a rock slide area at Lake Bill Chinook. For years it was not marked at all because it was so far out of the traffic. There Is No Way Baby that any body should be over there in a powerboat.

The 3 in our crew all drive each other's boats because we rotate boats. I do most of the boat towing with the duramax although on occasion one of the others tows mine the 46 miles to Billy Chinook. I will occasionally will be the boat driver in the other's boats even when the owner is not the skier. We are very efficient at launching, docking, and ski rotation because each of us has done every job repeatedly.

We frequently have other guests who are not regular boaters. We enjoy having new guests on board and they always seem to have a good time.

I am going to put myself in the shoes of the guest who caused the damage and say I would cover the costs. Clearly I am at fault (unless the owner gave me specific instruction that it would be fine to drive there). If I put myself in the owners shows I am not sure what I would do - my boat is my responsibility so I probably wouldn't say anything but if the person who caused the damage offered to pay I think I would accept.

[Baddog]

Sequel:

The owner paid for the repairs. I picked up his old Sunsetter for him with my Duramax and we went to Billy Chinook and had 3 guests. . My ski buddy says the attorney guest driver has said he will reimburse Rick for the repair. I actually believe that will happen as they are golf buddies and I have exposure a couple of times per year to this fellow and he seems to be responsible.

As wake girl and obski pointed out the area where the damage occurred is clearly marked, is way to one side of the main channel, and is very close to a rock slide area at Lake Bill Chinook. For years it was not marked at all because it was so far out of the traffic. There Is No Way Baby that any body should be over there in a powerboat.

The 3 in our crew all drive each other's boats because we rotate boats. I do most of the boat towing with the duramax although on occasion one of the others tows mine the 46 miles to Billy Chinook. I will occasionally will be the boat driver in the other's boats even when the owner is not the skier. We are very efficient at launching, docking, and ski rotation because each of us has done every job repeatedly.

We frequently have other guests who are not regular boaters. We enjoy having new guests on board and they always seem to have a good time.

I am going to put myself in the shoes of the guest who caused the damage and say I would cover the costs. Clearly I am at fault (unless the owner gave me specific instruction that it would be fine to drive there). If I put myself in the owners shows I am not sure what I would do - my boat is my responsibility so I probably wouldn't say anything but if the person who caused the damage offered to pay I think I would accept.

If you are the guest and agree to pay for the damage, would your insurance (homeowner's, umbrella) pay for it?

[wakeup]

What would happen if you let someone drive your car and they crash it? I do not see any responsibility difference in a boat.