New boat purchase

[bwake]

Hi there,

Im from New Zealand down right next to Australia. A mate and I are looking at importing a boat from California back to NZ within the next 6 months.

Im looking at a Sport Nautique with the GT40 in particular or perhaps a Fuel Injected Malibu Echelon/Sunsetter SV23 as im having trouble finding anything else descent within our sort of price range (12/15USD).

Few questions i hope you guys dont mind answering:

When is the best time of year for me to buy? October is the start of winter in CA isnt it? When will people start to sell?

If i find a boat i like say 5 hours away from the LA port, are most sellers going to be willing to drop the thing off (if im paying gas) or is there a company that you would reccomend to do this?

Ive also been told boat sales in the US are taxed, so often people will ask the purchaser to provide a receipt lower that purchase price? Why and how likely is that?

If a boat is listed for say 17500 typically how much lower would the average sort of seller be prepared to negotiate (on average at a guess).

Is it better buying privately or from a yard?

Know any of boats that may suit?

Cheers

Byron

[bwake]

Can anyone help?

Im having a bit of an issue finding good information. Getting boat transported from state to state also seems to be a horrendously expensive exercise + id love some feedback on my other questions.

Most adds also seem to say no scammers. Is that a big issue in the US as i seem to be getting an incredibly limited response to my emails despite even saying where i live.

Edited August 24, 2009 by bwake

[wienrdog]

We've got lots of problems with scammers from 'overseas' & boat sales here, so it's not unlikely that sellers will ignore your e-mail about their boats. Lots of problems with scammers who've moved selling boats that don't exist too.

The scam usually involves somebody from overseas wanting to send a transportation company & cashiers check for the boat. Company shows up, pickup up boat & delivers a bogus check. (Or better yet, delivers a check that's too much & want's some portion of the cash back.) The seller takes the check to the bank (and possibly gives the refund), turns over the title, then finds out the check is bogus/bad a few days later and is out the cash & trying to recover a stolen boat.

They also don't necessarily want to deal with the issues of a foreign sale & transportation - most sales are 'as is' & 'where is', so you're responsible for transport. Some will trailer to get the boat out, but 5 hours is a long distance to ask the seller to trailer - particularly if there is an issue during their part of the transport. (I've had a friend have a window broken by a rock during a 2 hour drive to meet a buyer).

People are selling now & there should be good deals out there, but the market is depressed enough & the sellers have their boats marked down pretty heavily already to get them looked at, so they may not be willing to negotiate. Markdown will depends on how desperate the seller is. You may have better luck dealing with a marina here than a private individual as some do have experience with transportation options & foreign sales. Transport can be pretty expensive here - expect over $1 per mile.

Don't know of the boats, but online places like BoatTraderOnline, UsedBoats, OnlyInboards, iBoats & eBay:Motors are good places to start & get comparison prices. You could also lookup individual dealer sites in the online yellow pages & give their individual sites a look.

Good luck

[Baddog]

Are there no boats that fit your criteria in NZ or AUS?

[MalibuTime]

A couple of things to consider -

After labor day here (September 7th) is when boat prices really start to drop, it is the traditional "end of summer" and who wants to drop $$ on a boat at the end of summer unless you are looking for a deal. So yes, October is a good time to start looking. I would be keeping an eye on prices in September so you can follow.

Because of the mentioned scammers, I suggest you try to enlist someone to help. It would be worth it to pay a shop, or a boat mechanic, or someone to check out any boat you are thinking of and help with logistics on this side of the pond. The guy that says "yes" to selling to someone in NZ may be because he has something to hide if no one is here checking the boat.

Taxes - Where I live in Washington State, the new owner pays an excise tax when registering the vehicle, the seller pays nothing. I think you may want to be more concerned with import taxes or duties you may need to pay, and possible inspections, but someone from Cali should weigh in on that one.

Titles. Any boat here with a lien (boat loan) has to be released by both the registered owner (the guy with the boat and trailer) and the legal owner (the bank that actually owns the boat and trailer). In the price range you are looking at I would be asking the question "do you hold the title to boat/trailer?" You really want to stay away from people selling that are under water for several reasons IMO. In that price range you should be able to find several sellers that hold title.

Bill of sale - you will want/need a bill of sale for boat and trailer, and the interest in the titles released by the legal owner. I would think you will need both of these to register your boat/trailer in NZ.

Good luck!

PS - I recall a company (Maybe in Florida) that specializes in import export of boats (or possibly anything) you may want to search for that type of set up.

Edit - on boat prices. Do a lot of research on comparables, there will be boats at the bottom of the price range that are in good shape that are "priced to sell" Those boats will also dissapear quickly as they sell. That is the range, or a little lower, that you should be targeting offers at. My experience looking at used boats is most people think their boat is worth way more than I would ever pay (overpriced).

Edited August 24, 2009 by MalibuTime

[JasonK]

I'd recommend working with a dealer or dealers. They can check the boat out for you, handle payment easier probably, and may be able to help with shipping.

If I was selling a boat to a NZealander, I would only accept cash. You can't rely on a cashiers check (fake ones take a while before they are discovered fake, and the person who cashed it is responsible to pay it back). If there's another way to transfer funds from bank to bank, then I would take my banks word for it and could do it that way, but I don't know. Cash is king, and you don't mail cash.

About sales tax- if i buy a boat for $20,000. then go to register it with the state I'm in (Michigan) I will have to pay Michigan 6% of $20,000 in taxes ($1,200). If the seller falsifies the sales price to $10,000 I will only have to pay half the taxes ($600). This only works on private sales. Dealers won't falsify docs.

What do you pay to register a boat in NZ?

[bwake]

Hi guys, thanks very much for the information. its brilliant and will help alot.

I have a person who can deal with the money side of things who is also the shipping agent so he is well versed in getting things moved overseas. I will also get him to pay them in cash so there are no issues with the deal.

The title information (lien) is great so thanks also for that. I dont see any reason here why a person couldnt sell a heavily financed boat and ship it overseas, so its good to know you guys at least have that covered.

We have to pay to register a boat here but its only really the trailer we pay registration on. The boat has no title whatsoever. When i import, i also have to pay GST (12.5%) on the boat price + shipping and customs clearance charges. It still works out better off by around 10k NZD (6800 US) to import something as opposed to buying locally where the market is very limited.

I will start looking soon in the LA/San Diego area and hope something descent pops up soon. Are people there likely to use them in the sea or are there plenty of lakes and rivers around. WOuld hate to buy a sea boat

Low hours with a wake tower would be great, but our summer isnt until November at the earliest so i do have time to play with.

Cheers

Edited August 25, 2009 by bwake

[WakeGirl]

I'd recommend working with a dealer or dealers. They can check the boat out for you, handle payment easier probably, and may be able to help with shipping.

If I was selling a boat to a NZealander, I would only accept cash. You can't rely on a cashiers check (fake ones take a while before they are discovered fake, and the person who cashed it is responsible to pay it back). If there's another way to transfer funds from bank to bank, then I would take my banks word for it and could do it that way, but I don't know. Cash is king, and you don't mail cash.

About sales tax- if i buy a boat for $20,000. then go to register it with the state I'm in (Michigan) I will have to pay Michigan 6% of $20,000 in taxes ($1,200). If the seller falsifies the sales price to $10,000 I will only have to pay half the taxes ($600). This only works on private sales. Dealers won't falsify docs.

What do you pay to register a boat in NZ?

+1 on that comment. While there are a few crooked dealers out there (one just went down in my state), most are trustworthy & would be a good source for making sure that everyone involved is taken care of. Even if you have to pay a few to get it done, it may be money well spent. Another choice would be a broker. Central Kentucky Inboards is one that's been around for some time & can help with many facets of the transaction.