Backroll question

[smeagol]

I'm beginning to think about starting to envision myself doing a backroll. I can go W2W HS,TS, and switch and I can do a front flip and a back flip on a trampoline. I am thinking about the backroll as being a cartwheel/side-flip and have started to try and learn how to do a side-flip on the tramp. I can't seem to complete the rotation. I start the rotation by looking up over my right shoulder and tucking my left ear, but then about 2/3 of the way through the rotation, it dies and I can't figure out where to get the energy to complete.

My guess is that I'm thinking about this thing incorrectly because I don't think it should be this hard.

Thoughts?

[Shine]

Are you easing up at the wake before take off and decreasing your lift?

If I am reading this right, you are landing knees and toe side on the crash? and you are RFF?

[JBuck]

Sounds like you are not cutting all the way through the top of the wake or you are slowing the rotation down by either letting go with your back hand or letting the rope out and not keeping it controlled. Hard to tell without video or pics.

But, where I would start is making sure you cut away from the wake 10-15 feet, let the boat catch up and position yourself in the seated position and begin your cut. Make sure you dig in pretty good, when you reach the trough keep your edge strong, but start to stand up. When you reach the top of the wake look up and over your lead shoulder, stand tall and transfer your weight to your back foot like your are gonna slam it into the water, and keep the rope in close to your waist. The closer you keep the rope to your body, the faster your rotation is going to be, the further away it gets, the rotation slows down. Keep both hands on the rope, most people tend to want to let go with their back hand, don't do this... it will slow your rotation down and create a bad habit. With the HS backroll, its all about line tension. You want to think of the rope as if it is a pole running through your midsection and you are rotating around the pole. Keep your eyes open, spot your landing and ride away clean...

Edited August 19, 2009 by JBuck

[smeagol]

Other than a couple of low-speed hucks, I haven't tried this behind the boat. I'm still at the place of trying to learn to do a flip like this on the trampoline. On the tramp, I can't complete the rotation.

[Shine]

Other than a couple of low-speed hucks, I haven't tried this behind the boat. I'm still at the place of trying to learn to do a flip like this on the trampoline. On the tramp, I can't complete the rotation.

Only thing I can think of is throw your feet more...

[Jimmypooh]

I'm beginning to think about starting to envision myself doing a backroll. I can go W2W HS,TS, and switch and I can do a front flip and a back flip on a trampoline. I am thinking about the backroll as being a cartwheel/side-flip and have started to try and learn how to do a side-flip on the tramp. I can't seem to complete the rotation. I start the rotation by looking up over my right shoulder and tucking my left ear, but then about 2/3 of the way through the rotation, it dies and I can't figure out where to get the energy to complete.

My guess is that I'm thinking about this thing incorrectly because I don't think it should be this hard.

Thoughts?

It sounds to me like you are trying to do a side flip on the trampoline. A back roll on a board requires you to only do a back flip on the trampoline. Remember if the board is rolling the person is flipping.

Am I off on this one?

[fijidaniel]

Don't try to mimic the rotation on a trampoline. Take is straight to the wake.

[Lieutenant Dan]

I am in the same place as you only I have been trying it behind the boat first, now trying to learn on the tramp. I have "The Book" and they clearly show that you learn to do a side flip not a back flip to try to simulate the backroll, although it isn't exactly the same. With the actual backroll, you want to use the "load and release" technique to have the board "sweep out" behind you as you edge up the wake....I am still trying to land one on the water but have on the tramp....on both my problem is not getting enough air...

[johnsvt]

Don't try to mimic the rotation on a trampoline. Take is straight to the wake.

^^^+1

[NvBoarder]

Don't try to mimic the rotation on a trampoline. Take is straight to the wake.

^^^+1

Agreed, take it to the wake. Approach the wake slowly and concentrate on a progressive edge at the tip of the wake, stand tall, keep the handle low around your waist. Once you leave the wake tuck slighlt forward (somersault) and keep your chin on your lead shoulder. If you don't huck it to hard you will probably rotate fine and ride away. Me on the other hand, I hucked it really hard and kept over rotating for the longest time, it doesn't take much to get around.

[geogilbert]

The same group that put together "The Book" has a site called learnwake.com It is excellent, but it is a few $ a month.

If you are goign to learn to do a roll and like me you are not a natural gymnast i suggest taking a video camera with you.

There are 3 things to a back roll:

1. Hold your edge to the top of the wake. (dont throw it early, most people do at first.)

2. When leaving the wake accelerate your board up and to the 1:00 position. (11:00 if your goofy) (you can also tink about this as throwing your hips into your elbow.(that should be on your hip at take off.

3. Look up at the 1:00 position (or 11:00) and open your chest up in the same direction, Try to spot the tip of your board and follow it around (this is a good way to learn to spot your landing)

Then step through the following.

1. go out in the flats at about 16mph and learn to load and release and get the rotation down. You should be able to get about 3/4 the way around.

2. speed up to about 18 and get a short line. (60ft range) try the same thing you were doing in the flats. Again riding away is near impossible but it also does not hurt when you dont make it. Focus on making sure you are popping straight up off the top of the wake. and try to get your board on the water before you .

3. Speed up but probably slower then your normal ridding speed and give it a whirl. Take video and then review.

I just went through all this about a week ago so it is still fresh in my mind. I do have the advantage of riding with a buy who is a stellar coach so that does help a bunch.

[smeagol]

The same group that put together "The Book" has a site called learnwake.com It is excellent, but it is a few $ a month.

If you are goign to learn to do a roll and like me you are not a natural gymnast i suggest taking a video camera with you.

There are 3 things to a back roll:

1. Hold your edge to the top of the wake. (dont throw it early, most people do at first.)

2. When leaving the wake accelerate your board up and to the 1:00 position. (11:00 if your goofy) (you can also tink about this as throwing your hips into your elbow.(that should be on your hip at take off.

3. Look up at the 1:00 position (or 11:00) and open your chest up in the same direction, Try to spot the tip of your board and follow it around (this is a good way to learn to spot your landing)

Then step through the following.

1. go out in the flats at about 16mph and learn to load and release and get the rotation down. You should be able to get about 3/4 the way around.

2. speed up to about 18 and get a short line. (60ft range) try the same thing you were doing in the flats. Again riding away is near impossible but it also does not hurt when you dont make it. Focus on making sure you are popping straight up off the top of the wake. and try to get your board on the water before you .

3. Speed up but probably slower then your normal ridding speed and give it a whirl. Take video and then review.

I just went through all this about a week ago so it is still fresh in my mind. I do have the advantage of riding with a buy who is a stellar coach so that does help a bunch.

Ok, this is helpful. Thanks.

I'm goofy, so help me with the 11:00 position? Sorry I'm not getting the picture in my head... am I at 5:00 ish when I'm at the top of the wake and then rotating counter clockwise up past 12:00 to the 11:00 position?

[fijidaniel]

Ok, if you are goofy. The only "learning" part will be to hold a progressive edge while standing tall and loading your back foot. The reason I said to take it to the wake is the wake kicks you into the role, you don't jump. I like LEARNWAKE, one of my favorite sites because Kyle Schmidt is an excellent teacher, but the whole 1:00, 11:00 thing will get you thinking too much.

IMHO the tramp does not help you here at all. Some will argue that it helps with rotation and spotting the landing, but ehh... The reason is that this trick is all edge and line tension. Some photos or a video will help tremendously as you will see how early (becasue I bet you are) that you are leaving the wake, or rolling up it.

Progressive edge, stand tall, wait, wait , wait, look over lead shoulder, keep handle in. Another reason the video will help is that some people tend to throw a Mexican Role when learning and it will allow you to see where you are looking.

[OLDGUY]

Just approach the wake like your going to jump WTW. As you edge up the wake start to cut up and away from the boat. Try to throw it past the wake and land in the flats. Most of the people I have seen trying there first back-roll just huck it and don't make the rotation.

[JBuck]

Ok, if you are goofy. The only "learning" part will be to hold a progressive edge while standing tall and loading your back foot. The reason I said to take it to the wake is the wake kicks you into the role, you don't jump. I like LEARNWAKE, one of my favorite sites because Kyle Schmidt is an excellent teacher, but the whole 1:00, 11:00 thing will get you thinking too much.

IMHO the tramp does not help you here at all. Some will argue that it helps with rotation and spotting the landing, but ehh... The reason is that this trick is all edge and line tension. Some photos or a video will help tremendously as you will see how early (becasue I bet you are) that you are leaving the wake, or rolling up it.

Progressive edge, stand tall, wait, wait , wait, look over lead shoulder, keep handle in. Another reason the video will help is that some people tend to throw a Mexican Role when learning and it will allow you to see where you are looking.

Basically what I said without the Mexican roll part! I also agree that a tramp does not help at all with this trick. The only thing a tramp is really good for is spins and air awareness.

[snowrider]

Here is the learnwake video they posted on youtube for backrolls

http://www.youtube.com/user/LearnWake

[Sippi]

If you have no problems doing a backflip on a tramp (assume you are able to do a layout on the tramp and not just a back tuck, yea my wife was a cheerleader haha). Have you tried to do a tantrum? It's a layout plain and simple. If you can do it on tramp you can do it behind the boat. For me the tantrum was the easiest to learn out of the two. Back roll isn't a flip IMO it's just an adjustment to your edge, stand tall and hold on for the "gainer-esk cartwheel". Plus tantrums look so much better when they are all layed out

[Green_Giant]

Agree with everything said. Thing that got me over the hump was understanding how to deal with the line tension mid rotation. Keep it on your hip and really resist/pull on that line when you're upside-down which accellerated me the rest of the way through, helping to get the board around and back in front of me before impact. If you let the boat take any line, you'll catch a toe or under rotate every time. (fun, believe me)

Saw this on wakeworld, and he's goofy too!

http://wakeworld.com/Tricklist/TrickTip004.asp