rudder bushings?

[Arctic Slalom]

my '89 has a little 'play' in the rudder. I can move it just slightly from side to side and front to back (perhaps a 1/16"-1/8"). steering feels a little hard when under power, but feels smooth at idle. I think the cable is fine. Can I just replace the bushings on my '89 or should I just tighten up the (2) large nuts on the inside of the hull? If I tighten the nuts will the play go away?

My local 'Bu dealer said I have the 'older' version of rudder w/o seal box and I might need to replace entire rudder ($600-for parts)....but he wasn't sure about it either w/o looking (100 mile drive)....in fact he didn't even know if the '89 Sunsetter was a V-drive or a DD; WTF?!

anyone have any experience with older skier and sunsetter rudders?

thanks.

[Planefreak]

Well I think your dealer is correct. If your boat is like my 87 skier then the seal maybe going bad which is the case on my boat. I just got through replacing my seal after taking the rudder into the shop just to have him tell me replace the seal. If you drop the rudder out and remove the top nut and look inside you should see a rather ugly looking eaten up seal. It should come out easy. Then pick up some new rope seal and roll it inside the nut and replace everything but don't forget to check how far the rudder is going to hang when the nut is tightened up before actually putting it together. Otherwise it could cause some headaches. If you need pics I can supply some.

[JasonK]

The rudder housing on my 1990 cracked which caused what you're describing. Check your housing.

My housing had a rubber o-ring and flax packing. I guess if the o-ring was missing it would have a little play. But the housing and rudder shaft don't allow hardly any slop.

[martinarcher]

Well I think your dealer is correct. If your boat is like my 87 skier then the seal maybe going bad which is the case on my boat. I just got through replacing my seal after taking the rudder into the shop just to have him tell me replace the seal. If you drop the rudder out and remove the top nut and look inside you should see a rather ugly looking eaten up seal. It should come out easy. Then pick up some new rope seal and roll it inside the nut and replace everything but don't forget to check how far the rudder is going to hang when the nut is tightened up before actually putting it together. Otherwise it could cause some headaches. If you need pics I can supply some.

I'd love to see some pics. Mine also has developed about a 1/4" of play and is leaking water into the bilge. I think it's time for new packing. Do you have to drop the rudder to re-pack it? The reason I ask is the trailer is in the way! There is no way I would be able to drop the rudder with the boat on the trailer.

[Planefreak]

You don't have to pull the rudder all the way to repack that nut. Just put some padding underneath your rudder or have someone hold it as you take the control arm off. Then simply unscrew that top nut. Here are some pics

[Arctic Slalom]

planefreak,

good stuff; thanks for the photos.

where do you get the packing? should I just call Discount Inboard/Boatfix, etc. -or- call the dealer?

thanks for the help,

CR

[martinarcher]

planefreak,

good stuff; thanks for the photos.

where do you get the packing? should I just call Discount Inboard/Boatfix, etc. -or- call the dealer?

thanks for the help,

CR

[termite]

Got the anwser for the question I needed to ask! thanks

[Planefreak]

planefreak,

good stuff; thanks for the photos.

where do you get the packing? should I just call Discount Inboard/Boatfix, etc. -or- call the dealer?

thanks for the help,

CR

I would call a local boat shop before I went to a dealer. They may actually give you some.

Glad I can help

[martinarcher]

Looks like you had the tank out. Is that true? I looked at mine last night and it looks like I could do it with the tank in, but it will be tight.

[Planefreak]

yep that's true. I was in the middle of replacing the floor and decided to take care of my rudder problem. Removing the tank is a pain, i wouldn't if you don't have too.

[Arctic Slalom]

planefreak and martin,

i'm planning to pull my apart tonight.....

i'm going to leave the tank in, and I'm just planning on using 1/4" wax rope for packing...is this correct?

If I understand both of you there is no bushing or bearing, just packing rope?

thanks,

CR

[Planefreak]

planefreak and martin,

i'm planning to pull my apart tonight.....

i'm going to leave the tank in, and I'm just planning on using 1/4" wax rope for packing...is this correct?

If I understand both of you there is no bushing or bearing, just packing rope?

thanks,

CR

That's correct. There are no bushings or bearings in there. I'm not sure the size of the packing rope makes to big of a difference but I used the 1/4" stuff too. Should you require more room you can loosen up the whole assembly and drop it a little bit. Just make sure to seal up the bolts. Good luck!!!!

[martinarcher]

planefreak and martin,

i'm planning to pull my apart tonight.....

i'm going to leave the tank in, and I'm just planning on using 1/4" wax rope for packing...is this correct?

If I understand both of you there is no bushing or bearing, just packing rope?

thanks,

CR

Cool. Let us know how it goes and post up some pics if you can. I'd like to see what is down inside the assembly before I attack mine. Seems weird to have play and the packing is the only thing that needs re-done. I guess it's possible new packing would snug everything up.

[Arctic Slalom]

guys,

after a hard look at it last night, I decided I'd need to pull the tank and related 'plumbing' back there to do it right....then I might do a new cable, too.

....i'm just not sure you can do it w/o removing the tanks.....the large nuts seems really tight on mine.

I think I'm going to wait till this fall (after winterizing-only a month or so away) to take it apart....sorry.

CR

[martinarcher]

guys,

after a hard look at it last night, I decided I'd need to pull the tank and related 'plumbing' back there to do it right....then I might do a new cable, too.

....i'm just not sure you can do it w/o removing the tanks.....the large nuts seems really tight on mine.

I think I'm going to wait till this fall (after winterizing-only a month or so away) to take it apart....sorry.

CR

I was thinking the same thing when I gave mine a good long look the other night. I did think if I got the top nut off and could use a mirror to inspect the inside of the packing gland I would feel a little better about it. I just hate to pull the nut off and stuff new packing in there without making sure the inside of the assembly is clean and in good shape.

[JasonK]

I replaced my rudder housing without removing my tank. I'll send pics to Arctic Slalom.

[Planefreak]

How did you do it JasonK? Pull the rudder and then take apart the housing and loosen the packing nut or did you have enough room to pull the whole nut out?

[martinarcher]

How did you do it JasonK? Pull the rudder and then take apart the housing and loosen the packing nut or did you have enough room to pull the whole nut out?

I was am still wondering the same. Any news JasonK? I'd love to see the pics you have of your seal replacement. This will be a spring project for me next year while I wait for the lake to warm up! The rudder play is way more than I feel comfortable with. I need to get it fixed. I didn't want to take the boat out of commision this season as we used the heck out of it. Off season is maintence season!

[JasonK]

Once the rudder dropped out, I had enough room to loosen and remove the packing nut. Send me a PM with your email address if you want pics. I sent some to Arctic Slalom and Bart.

[martinarcher]

So will the rudder drop as soon as the tiller arm pinch bolt is loosened up? I got the pinch bolt loosened up on mine and the nut backed off a 1/4". The whole pinch bolt spins freely now. I can't get the rudder to drop down no matter what I try. I had my wife "fight" me with the steering wheel while I held the rudder - no dice. I then tried to use a straight screwdriver and drive it between the top packing nut and the tiller arm - no dice.

Do I have to loosen the top packing nut to get the rudder to drop a little. After I get the rudder to drop a bit I'm going to just take the whole port out of the boat to remove the whole assemble. I'll just rebuild it over the winter. I need to take the boat to storage tomorrow so this is my last chance to pull the assembly. If I can't get it out tonight I'll have to wait until spring.

Thanks guys!

[JasonK]

I think there was a keyway that has a key that needs to be removed. I can't remember. Can you see a keyway on the rudder shaft?

The top of my assembly has a locking bushing with 2 set screws. Does yours have one?

[martinarcher]

I got it. I needed to take entire pinch bolt out of the tiller arm. After I did that I could use a small flat screwdriver to "separate" the tiller arm enough that the rudder shaft dropped out. You are right there was also a keyway. Mine did not have the locking bushing with the set-screws, just the pinch bolt on the tiller arm. The bad news is if the tiller pinch bolt would loosen on the water the rudder would just fall right out of the boat!

[NorCaliBu]

The bad news is if the tiller pinch bolt would loosen on the water the rudder would just fall right out of the boat!

Might want to keep that bolt tightened then.

[martinarcher]

Might want to keep that bolt tightened then.

No doubt about it!

Just an update on the rudder. It looks like my rudder shaft is a bit bent (not bad, but enough I need to sort it out)

I called Malibu and talked with them about what replacement parts are available since I know the original rudder is going to be impossible to get. They looked up the original drawings and said that it has been replaced by the current Malibu rudder assembly PN3411015. Not sure if it's worth the $550 my dealer quoted me, but I guess it's an option since the folks at Malibu said it will drop right into an 88/89 Skier.

My other option is to see if the guys in the machine shop at work can straighten the rudder shaft. I think I'll start there and see what happens.