Whine coming from transmission in reverse

[exodus]

I am lost and could use some help. I recently bought a 2003 Malibu Wakesetter VLX. It had numerous issues which I've mostly resolved except for a couple of them. This is the first boat I've ever owned and the only boat I've ever had any experience with that did not have an out drive. When I put it in reverse I get a very audible whining noise coming from the transmission. A friend of mine has an 07 vlx and says he hears absolutely nothing from his transmission in reverse. I've spoken to a mechanic and another Malibu owner with an older year like mine and they both say that is completely normal and that they all do that. Anyone have any input on this? It's almost embarrassing to put this boat in reverse in the marina among the other nice boats there because because of this nasty whining noise.

Thanks,

ex

Edited August 13, 2009 by exodus

[RTS]

Completely normal.

[SCOTTDOMINE]

Agreed!

[RTS]

And I didn't mean to sound trite...maybe someone with more intimate knowledge of the transmission will chime in and explain why they whine in reverse. But for now, rest assured that they all do (your friends '07 VLX notwithstanding)

[bigD]

Mine does it also. I think it has to do with the Heli-cut gears or something . Your buddy may have the all in one ski-V trans which is different than yours.

I'd still check the fluid level or change it if it's been awhile since its been done.

[Dusty14]

Our 08 VTX does the same thing just as your engage the throttle out of neutral moving forward at the slowest possible idling speed. Agreed.....sounds low rent but we were told it was normal. What is the cause??

JD

[Baddog]

I think they built that sound in on purpose so you could know when you were in reverse, since there are no back-up lights like on your car.

[Jimmypooh]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

[Baddog]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

[exodus]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

[exodus]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

Thanks!!! While I completely understand this in an auto transmission where you actually have multiple gears and can shift. I'm not sure I completely buy this on the boating side. I buy your explanation, I'm just not convinced it would have to be that way. Also, the whine sounds different in this than it does in a car. I am very familiar with the standard transmission reverse whine but the one in the boat seems less "zipper like" than a manual auto tranny.

Edited August 14, 2009 by exodus

[exodus]

Mine does it also. I think it has to do with the Heli-cut gears or something . Your buddy may have the all in one ski-V trans which is different than yours.

I'd still check the fluid level or change it if it's been awhile since its been done.

That was the first thing I did. Fluid are extremely clean (so clean I almost couldn't tell where it was without touching the dipstick) and full, but not too full

[NorCaliBu]

...I get a very audible whining noise...

Quickest and easiest fix....

...just leave Jack on the dock.

[Lance B. Johnson]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

The answer is simplicity. The 2-5 gears are synchronized and the gears are constantly in mesh. Torque is transferred through from the synchronizer hub to the synchro sleeve and then to the gear. Essentially the synchro sleeve slides back and forth locking different gears to the shaft.

Reverse is accomplished through sliding one gear into mesh with another gear.........this requires a straight cut or "spur" gear. Without this, the manufacture would have to synchronize the gear adding a lot of complexity (and expense) to the trans.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I am pretty sure you are experiencing the norm......the car is more of a lower growl and the boat is more high pitched.

Next time your at the dock ask someone with inboard to listen to your trans and see what they think.......my experience is that people are generally helpful.

[nuttyskier2002]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

The "whine" comes from the transfer of power through what is called a planetary gear system. It is made up of a sun gear (or center gear), a set of gears around the sun gear (these are the "planet" gears), and an inside ring gear. The "planet" gears are held in position around the sun gear by a drum. They are free to spin in the drum but they are messed with the sun gear while being caged in the drum similar to the way roller bearings are held in between their races. The planet gear mess with both the sun gear and the ring gear. For reverse, power is applied to the sun gear and the drum is held from rotating by a band (same type band as an automatic transmission in your car). This holds the planet gears still. They can spin but they cannot rotate around the sun gear. Power is taken off the ring gear which spins opposite of the sun gear. There is a reduction (not 1:1). The spinning planet gears inside the ring gear and around the sun gear are what makes the “whine”. In forward, the band in released allowing the ring gear to rotate. The ring gear and drum are locked together by the forward clutch. Everything spins as a unit and the power is again taken of the ring gear only this time it's spinning the same direction as the sun gear and the ratio is 1:1. There's no reduction in forward and no gear whine because everything is locked together. Hope this gives of insight.

[nuttyskier2002]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

The "whine" comes from the transfer of power through what is called a planetary gear system. It is made up of a sun gear (or center gear), a set of gears around the sun gear (these are the "planet" gears), and an inside ring gear. The "planet" gears are held in position around the sun gear by a drum. They are free to spin in the drum but they are messed with the sun gear while being caged in the drum similar to the way roller bearings are held in between their races. The planet gear mess with both the sun gear and the ring gear. For reverse, power is applied to the sun gear and the drum is held from rotating by a band (same type band as an automatic transmission in your car). This holds the planet gears still. They can spin but they cannot rotate around the sun gear. Power is taken off the ring gear which spins opposite of the sun gear. There is a reduction (not 1:1). The spinning planet gears inside the ring gear and around the sun gear are what makes the “whine”. In forward, the band in released allowing the ring gear to rotate. The ring gear and drum are locked together by the forward clutch. Everything spins as a unit and the power is again taken of the ring gear only this time it's spinning the same direction as the sun gear and the ratio is 1:1. There's no reduction in forward and no gear whine because everything is locked together. Hope this gives of insight.

Okay I went back and looked at the manual and the BW Velvet drive actually works a little different than I described. Reverse is taken off the planet gears through the cage holding them together. The cage spins opposite because of the planet gears (called pinion gears by BW) are compound. The outer ring gear is held with a clutch instead of a band so there is no band in the BW tranny. Also the manual says reverse output is 1:1. Power is transferred through many spinning pinion gears which make a whine. For forward everyhting is still locked together.

[exodus]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

The "whine" comes from the transfer of power through what is called a planetary gear system. It is made up of a sun gear (or center gear), a set of gears around the sun gear (these are the "planet" gears), and an inside ring gear. The "planet" gears are held in position around the sun gear by a drum. They are free to spin in the drum but they are messed with the sun gear while being caged in the drum similar to the way roller bearings are held in between their races. The planet gear mess with both the sun gear and the ring gear. For reverse, power is applied to the sun gear and the drum is held from rotating by a band (same type band as an automatic transmission in your car). This holds the planet gears still. They can spin but they cannot rotate around the sun gear. Power is taken off the ring gear which spins opposite of the sun gear. There is a reduction (not 1:1). The spinning planet gears inside the ring gear and around the sun gear are what makes the “whine”. In forward, the band in released allowing the ring gear to rotate. The ring gear and drum are locked together by the forward clutch. Everything spins as a unit and the power is again taken of the ring gear only this time it's spinning the same direction as the sun gear and the ratio is 1:1. There's no reduction in forward and no gear whine because everything is locked together. Hope this gives of insight.

Okay I went back and looked at the manual and the BW Velvet drive actually works a little different than I described. Reverse is taken off the planet gears through the cage holding them together. The cage spins opposite because of the planet gears (called pinion gears by BW) are compound. The outer ring gear is held with a clutch instead of a band so there is no band in the BW tranny. Also the manual says reverse output is 1:1. Power is transferred through many spinning pinion gears which make a whine. For forward everyhting is still locked together.

Wow, thanks for the awesome reply and wright up!!!! Thanks to everyone for all the great input. I believe I understand it now fairly well. Thanks again!

[Baddog]

Here is an article explaining the whine. Granted this is based on manual car transmissions, but the same is true for boat trannys.

See? Another fine reason for membership on this site.

I have often wondered why that was and now i can be more prepared for that question on Jeopardy.

Yeah, but then the question will be "why don't they use helical gears for both forward and reverse??" My guess would be that is has something to do with the direction of the helical gears needing to be opposite those of the forward gears and since the helical gears of forward gears contact another helical gear you would wind up with two gear with helical teeth but in opposition directions and that would never work. So straight teeth on one and helical teeth on the other where contact is made to eliminate the need for two sets of gears on the opposite side of the tranny???

Well that clarifies it. Now I can win the Final Jeopardy question.

[SMERRILL]

It's normal. Mine does it too.

[Brad3607]

I love the Malibu Crew, as a fairly new Malibu owner I have often worried about the noise in reverse and now that everyone says its normal I will no longer even think about it. Thanks for everyones comments