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Finished my ballast system


Slurpee

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All right, instead of adding this to my perpetual boat thread (see below) I decided to just post up all the images in the Ballast Forum

Born Again Fakesetter

I started with a 2001 Malibu Sunsetter VLX with no automated ballast at all. I got tired real quick this summer of filling up four sacks manually every time I wanted to sneak out for a quick run at dusk so I spent way more money than I expected on automating it all.

Basically I ended up using Rule 1100 pumps for fill and drain on each sac, so 8 total. I ran 1" ID reinforced PVC on the fill and drain lines, and 3/4" ID reinforced PVC everywhere else. The most difficult requirements to solve were being able to fill while on plane and being able to put my integrated bow sac either on top of or below the bow cushions.

Bow Ballast -

Unconnected Sac Fill and Vent Hoses

I can pass all the hoses through the gunnels to get the bow bag under the cushions except the drain hose kept getting an air pocket in the hose so I made a port in the side wall to let me pass the drain hose through to the top of the seat cushions. About 2 minutes work and i can get all the hoses back underneath the cushions for a heavy load of people.

Unconnected Sac Drain Hose

Sac connected and full

I had to prevent the bag from auto-draining with a 12Vdc Normally closed solenoid valve as you can see in the next picture. As high as that sac got when coming out of the hole there was no choice but to put valves on the vent and drain lines. I put a swing check valve on the fill line as well.

Drain Pump and Electric Valve

Drain and Vent hoses and Vent Valve

Ski Locker Ballast -

The locker needed to be able to revert to carrying my slalom skis so it was a challenge to get the fill pumps for both bow and locker as well as the drain pump for the locker and the vent for the locker all in one small place. In the end I wonder why I even need a pump here because it auto-filled FAST being below the water line and all. Hence the 12V electric valve.

Unconnected Sac Fill and Drain and Vent Hoses

Ski Locker Sac connected and full

Rear Locker Ballast -

The most difficult part of all this was getting the pumps to fit down in the little bit of room I had left in the engine compartment. In the end I had to tee off and run a hose over to the other side of the driveshaft where I secured the second pump to the raw water hose intake.

Port Fill Pump and Seacock and Ball Valve

Another shot of the same thing above

Starboard Fill Pump

Starboard Ballast -

I've gotta come up with a storage method for that hot water shower. Maybe a velcro hoop on the transom wall or something.

Unconnected Hoses 1/2

Unconnected Hoses 2/2

Ballast Full

Port Ballast -

Unconnected Hoses 1/2

Unconnected Hoses 2/2

Ballast Full

Draining -

Bow and Port Draining

Controls -

I had to juggle a bunch of switches and move the shower switch back to the rear locker, but I finally got all the MLS switches in place in the dash.

Toggle Switches

I timed everything as well.

All bags except bow are full in just under 5 minutes rather at rest or at speed. The bow takes another 2-3 minutes to fill depending on if the boat is at rest or at speed.

The Drain time is a bit longer. The ski locker drains in 5 minutes. The rear locker bags drain in 7 minutes. The bow bag drains in 10 minutes. The extended drain time of the bow bag may have something to do with the solenoid valve in line with the drain pump. The ski locker has the same scenario with the fill function, but it's also got significant pressure being below the water line to work with.

I tested one stern bag with a cork in the vent port and one without to evaluate the draining side by side. With the vent sealed during drain that bag emptied a significantly larger amount of water before losing prime. I'd say almost 2 gallons. I may be adding some electric valves to the remaining vent lines at a later date cuz it's nice to not have to wrestle a bag out of it's position to let it dry between outings.

Edited by Slurpee
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  • 2 months later...

What size thru hull did you use for the rear ballast bags supply side? Did you use any check valves? Separate lines for your vents or did you use one thrull hull with a y for vent and drain?

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What size thru hull did you use for the rear ballast bags supply side? Did you use any check valves? Separate lines for your vents or did you use one thrull hull with a y for vent and drain?

I used two 1" thru-hole high speed pickups below the water line and T'd off to two pumps each.

I used seperate lines for my drain and vent.

For kicks since i had the extra relays I put a relay on the vent lines as well to close them off when not filling. Really helps suck the bags dry keeping them under vacuum.

Here's a link to the thread of the pickups I found.

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  • 1 year later...

Well, 2 years later and the pump system is still going strong. I could not resist making a major change though after watching Ronnie install his plumbed surf-sac addition with reversible pumps. So I've replaced all 8 pumps (for sale) with Johnson reversible pumps. Wow! I'll post pictures soon, but in short I've removed half my wiring, half the pump hoses, and plugged up all the drain holes in the side of the boat. It works about 20% faster on the fill and drain, but more importantly to me the pumps suck the sacs vacuum dry.

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I'll have the pics up this weekend, but there's some stuff I learned in the last couple of years.

First off, if you go with backflow valves be VERY picky about the materials they're made of. Those clear valves you see in my Flickr album had completely rotted out by 2 years later. I had to have one in the bow bag because it's height would drain it through the fill pump (when off) no matter what because there is no point higher on the boat than that bag when it's at a high angle of attack (surfing) so a backflow and vent loop don't work. It drains. The same thing goes with the dedicated drain pump needing some kind of valve if you have the bag above the seats like me. And no matter what that back flow valve is supposed to do, if you get a siphoning effect going in the correct direction on your rear locker bags it will auto-fill. It's more fun when the bag isn't present. :) I found out the hard way that even with correctly installed vent loops the right amount of maneuvering and acceleration can get that siphoning going.

Second, those solenoid valves ROCK. The catch is that they have a small hole in the membrane internally to allow air pressure equalization. The valves I bought have at least a couple of small parts that do rust and eventually clog that hole. It prevents the valves from closing completely rendering them useless. So twice a year you have to pop the solenoid off and wipe off the rust that has built up on the rubber membrane. I find they are best used on vent lines to close them off during drain and facilitate a vacuum tight drain of the bag.

Third, after paying 2x $40 for a fill and drain pump, and an average of one $25 solenoid per bag I'd reccomend digging deep for some bi-directional pumps and saving the wiring, fitting, and hose costs.

Edited by Slurpee
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So here are the pictures I took of my ballast system with the Johnson Reversible Pumps I installed.

First, the ski locker. Before there were two aerator pumps and a solenoid crammed into the locker. That worked fine, but after 2 years the wires were beginning to corode at the connections and the pump in general did a moderate job emptying the bag because it had to pump the water all the way up to the midline of the boat. Now the locker has a clean installation.

[Locker Picture]

The pump was moved to a dry location since it doesn't like getting wet. So it's now underneath the observer seat.

[ski Locker Pump]

Kind of a bummer drilling those holes in the floor, but some electrical box adapters trimmed out the look nicely.

Next there's the rear lockers. Basically I just pulled the old aerator pumps out and stuck the reversible pumps in. Then I pulled out all the extra tubing and wiring for the drain pumps.

[Port Locker Pump]

[starboard Locker Pump]

But wait! What's that second pump on the starboard side? Well, I added a dedicated pump to fill random bags for surfing. Here's a picture of the whole setup.

[surf Bag Pump]

I ran a 13' hose off that extra pump and stuck the switch for it in the sidewall at the top of the locker. Now I don't have to toss pumps over the side anymore to fill surf bags. I can just hook that up to a bag and fill it while running at speed to our surf location. OMG I love it. Malibu, this needs to be an option!!!

Then there's the bow bag. I just dropped the pump under the bow seat cushion. I put some holes in the side of the walk-thru with electrical box adapters to trim out the opening nicely. You can see the fill/drain hose coming out the port on the left. I'll eventually cut that hose down and run it out the port on the right. I was just too lazy that day to do anything but re-use the old hose run.

[bow Pump]

[bow Bag]

The thing I like best about these reversible pumps, is that if you ventilated them with a solenoid to shut off the vent during the drain cycle (or didn't vent at all), then these pumps suck the bags vacuum dry. Now how do you do that? Well I went and picked up some 1N4003 diodes at Radio Shack and wired them in line to the positive feed to the solenoid in the vent line. That way the solenoid only gets powered in one of the polarities being applied to the pump. A quick experiment tells you which pump wire to tap off of and there you go.

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Hey,

Good info, thanks for posting all the info!

I have a question, as I am trying to do something similiar to you.

I want to add a bow bag, that is automated as seen in this thread:

http://www.themalibu...ballast-design/

Similiarly this morning I thought, why not just go with one of those reversible pumps, and just one.

A couple questions for you:

1. Did you run a relay for the di directional pump, or just wire it directly through the switch?

2. I see you mentioned that you ran a vent line on your bow bag, and added a solenoid to shut of the vent line to vacuum drain the bag.

If you don't add the solenoid, and the pump is able to draw in air while reversing, how much of the bow bag will drain? I plan to keep mine under the seats if it makes any difference, which is will some.

My plan now is:

Mechanical:

Center drain hole - reversible pump - 1 lower leg on the bow bag. Vent/overfill connected to side thru-hull

Electrical:

Batt- Pump- Switch-Ground. Relay needed?

Thanks!

Edited by Indyxc
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  • 5 months later...

Howdy,

i have my center bow bag rigged so I can unhook it and pull the hoses through the side panels and have the bag below or above the seats for more ballast. With the right switch you can rig a reversible pump easy. No relay needed at all unless you don't want to run the large current needed through the lengths of wire needed to run back to the switch (and the switch itself... it get's warm btw). I fill and drain through the left leg bottom side port. When it's under the seats a decent amount of water remains due to gravity and the shape of the bow hull and the wishbone construction of the bag. When it's above the seats I have a passenger hold the right leg up a bit so water drains to the correct side of the bag for pumping out.

I vent from the center top port through a small electric solenoid valve rigged to the same switch as the pump. I just put a diode in line so it only polarized when the pump was filling.

I've been meaning to see if there's a way I can plumb both ends of the wishbone bag together under the floor so I don't have these draining issues.

Hey,

Good info, thanks for posting all the info!

I have a question, as I am trying to do something similiar to you.

I want to add a bow bag, that is automated as seen in this thread:

http://www.themalibu...ballast-design/

Similiarly this morning I thought, why not just go with one of those reversible pumps, and just one.

A couple questions for you:

1. Did you run a relay for the di directional pump, or just wire it directly through the switch?

2. I see you mentioned that you ran a vent line on your bow bag, and added a solenoid to shut of the vent line to vacuum drain the bag.

If you don't add the solenoid, and the pump is able to draw in air while reversing, how much of the bow bag will drain? I plan to keep mine under the seats if it makes any difference, which is will some.

My plan now is:

Mechanical:

Center drain hole - reversible pump - 1 lower leg on the bow bag. Vent/overfill connected to side thru-hull

Electrical:

Batt- Pump- Switch-Ground. Relay needed?

Thanks!

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I am just starting to plan out my reversible pump setup. With these pumps, do you really need to vent at all? What happens if you don't?

For the front bag (I have the under seat Fly High setup), does it drain both sides of the bag well? Would I be better off running a hose off of each end and doing a T to fully drain (obviously it would fill without an issue).

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