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New Guy Needs Advise - 1998 Sunsetter LX


hybridpower

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Hi folks, been lurking here awhile, so I figured I'd start out my posting career with an intro and a question. Here goes for the intro: I've been around boats most of my life (grew up on a lake) and have had jetskis for years (just sold them to buy a boat). I'm comfortable driving the trailer, and the boat, etc. I'm also a pretty good amatuer mechanic, so small fixes are no big deal.

Now here's the question:

I'm looking to buy my first ski boat, and within the range I've been looking, I've narrowed it down to one boat I really like, it's a 1998 Sunsetter LX. Here's the good and the bad that I can think of, maybe you can add to it? To be frank, I know very little about malibu boats, most of my childhood boating was in the old pro star 190's, but I really like the open bow of the sunsetter. If there is a reason that I should stay away from this boat, please give me the pros and cons there too.

Good: Boat is in great shape cosmeticly, the original interior has no cracks or rips. It has a tower with lights and speakers. The hull looks good, comes with a wake wedge and ballast bags. The trailer is in great shape, has a folding tounge, double axles, and surge breaks.

The bad: the boat has 1250 hours on it (efi monsoon engine)! The tower is fixed (not folding).

What do you suggest I watch out for? Would you buy a boat with this many hours? How much would you expect to pay for it?

I've only seen the boat on land, we'll be going out in it Saturday to run it around for a few hours. I've also got a compression tester, but don't know exactly what the compression should be, can someone tell me? Likewise, my understanding is that to do compression on that engine, I remove the lanyard (to kill spark), push the throttle full open, and test one cylinder at a time. Am I on track?

Anything else I need to look at, please feel free to point it out. Thanks in advance for what I'm sure will be great advise!

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Welcome to TMC!

If you know the tower brand, or can post a photo of it that would help. I know that there have been some towers that are problematic, others would know more specifically, I just recall that certain brands in the past have had issues you should be aware of. I'm sure someone will chime in soon with your compression figures, I am not sure.

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Just a little "piece of mind": if the boat is in good shape cosmetically with that many hours then I would assume the engine has been well taken care of as well. They say these engines are built to run 2000 hrs before a rebuild. Try searching compression test, there are many different methods and ranges for PSI.

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Compression test is good to do obviously, but don't let the hours scare you. I just bought a boat that reads 1400 hours and the hourmeter has been broken for some time! Of course, those 454s are pretty indestructible Chevy_anim.gif

As for the design and skiability of the boat, the sunsetter (LX, sunkicker, iride, etc) is probably one of the best do it all boats in history (of any brand). You'll love it.

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Thanks guys, I'm really excited, I can't sleep, and when I do all I dream is boating!

I just want to make sure I don't buy something I'll regret. This will also be my wife's first boat, and if experience has taught me anything with her, it is that if she enjoys it, I'll have more boats in my future, if she doesn't, this may be my last one! I need to be sure to get one that won't just be broken in the garage every weekend!

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Hey there. I'm new here too - but do have many many years experience on boat engines.

I think the Monsoon is a basic 5.7l 350 block - yes? Sup'd up and marinized for Malibu by Indmar if not mistaken?

The compression will be spec by Indmar - and you should call them for the exact specifics. They change horsepower by altering the cams, crank, compression, valves, etc. So they'll have the exact range of spec which will be pretty unique to that motor.

With that said though - more important than the actual number - are all of the readings relatively close to the same?

If you have 150-148-148-152-90-144-150-148 - you have a problem on the cylinder with 90psi.

And 1,250 hours is indeed getting up there. I've seen gas engines with 2,500hrs before being rebuilt - but that's WAY up there.

Like anything else - it's all in how it was run and how it was cared for.

Compare two engines with 1,250 hours - one was run at 1,100rpm's for more than 1/2 the hours of its life doing cocktail cruises at sunset puttering around the lake. The other was run hard for 1,250 hours pulling tricksters and 20 line pyramids 2 hours a night, 5 days a week, 3 months a year for ski team practice.

Even if oil is changed every 50 hours - that ski team boat engine could be on its last hours whereas the puttering cocktail cruiser could be only midlife.

So truthfully - there's no way to know for sure.

And compression on an engine that old will only be part of the story. Do a leakdown test too - if you don't know what that is, have a mechanic do it. Aging engines will burn oil through worn rings and seals. On the top of the motor, lifters and such wear. Oil pumps are not bullet proof and can cause nearly immediate catastrophic failures. Any sidecar engine accessory will be way toward the end of its life if not already replaced - alternator and water pump specifically. And the rust inside any iron components (exhaust manifolds, block) needs to be checked out. Cooling water passages, if blocked or becoming blocked around the cylinders could be trouble in a short amount of time.

The good news is...the previous owner ran that boat 125 hours a year, year in and year out - which is big hours. He also didn't go buy a new hour meter at 600 hours - which for high hour boat users, is unfortunately pretty common. That's a big plus.

Also, someone that runs at that level will probably be taking better than normal care of the machine. Also good news.

The best news - when that previous owner turned the key - that boat ran. And it was almost certainly reliable. Anyone who runs a boat that many hours in a year would have ditched a lemon engine long ago.

So long story longer - it's a risk to buy any gas engine boat with that many hours - especially a purpose built boat that by design, gets run hard. But given the risks - if the price is right - it might be worth it.

If you had to take that boat to an expert marine mechanic for a total tear-down and rebuild, including machining the heads (not new heads), new manifolds, guides, seals, crank, cam, rings, valves, etc. To do the whole thing...this is a complete 100% guess ballpark...I'd think in the neighborhood of $4,000? And the transmission would probably be best to buy a new one. Not sure what that costs, but Indmar or your Malibu dealer would be able to give you that price. Also, ask them what a new or rebuilt replacement motor costs. My guess is $7,000+installation for that high end of a motor...but again, just guessing.

Keep us posted. This is interesting.

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Take the boat to the dealer and have the hours read off the ECM, in 98 the hours would go up when the key is on the ACC position.

You may find the boat has a very different hour reading then what the gauge reads.

I've bought much newer boats with higher hours, never had a problem with boats with 500, 600, 1300 hours, my current boat has 675ish hours and doesn't miss a beat.

-Chris

Edited by 99response
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There is no good way to be sure of the future. So you may have problems with the engine or you may not.

Make sure you check out the floor and the bilge. There are lots of stories about used boats with rotted floors and that is an extensive rebuild.

Look for a bent shaft or strut or propeller. Check the forward part of the hull for sand wear or rock damage. The obvious is to shop the price on craigslist, ebay, boat trader, and make sure you are paying a fair price. Used boats take time to sell and if you buy a lemon then you are stuck. I suggest you closely inspect at least 3 other boats so that you have a better idea of what to look for. It is more fun to shop now than be a mechanic later.

Take your wife with you. She will be more objective and if you go wrong then she is part of the decision. We've bought a couple of used Porsches in the past and my wife enjoyed being part of the decision and kept me from buying a marginal car.

HOT TIP ! You might seek out a good mechanic possibly by attending a summer hot rod show in your town. The hot rod guys know the best/cheapest resources for upholstery, carpet, engine work, polishing, waxing, detailing and so on. So take your kids to a hotrod meet and quiz those guys about all of those resources.

The Sunsetter direct drive is one of the best all time family boats around for any usage. The Mastercraft equivalent is the ProStar 209. These craft allow you to put 8 aboard for cruising and carry all of your gear for watersports with a good wake. There were tons of Sunsetters sold new so you have a high demand boat design that will be easier to sell than a boat with more limited style usage.

Edited by DONTW8
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He did mention that he left the key on to run the stereo. He's not denyed that he used it though, he was out last weekend, all weekend (I know because I was trying to call him to see it and he was on the lake!).

He also said he often would let it idle to recharge the battery after running the stereo a while, but that is all a small fraction of the hours.

I called the dealer, and they charge $204 + tax to do compression, and start it on the hose. Doesn't sound that great to me...? They said they will also check for trouble codes.

Here's a question, if there are codes in the system, do they trigger a "check engine light," or could they be stored with no light? I saw a post on checking them with an LED, but it wasn't clear enough to make me want to do it without better instruction. Likewise, I didn't see a list of codes to match the flashes to (ie. x amount of flashes = trouble code y). Does anyone have better directions for this? I've pulled codes on older odb1 cars with a jumper wire, so if you can point me in the right direction, I can do this too.

Thanks!

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Ha Ha Ha you sound like me, we just got a 1994 Malibu Echelon LX and this is dear hubbies first boat, if he likes it we are good but if he doesn't I'll never get any new toys for my boat. He's real conservative and this purchase was huge for him, I've only been begging him for the last 6 yrs. He tried to satisfy my ache with a cheap little jet boat, we wound up with this gorgeous little Malibu. Now I just have to make it seem effortless when launching and recovering, those weren't my jobs so I am learning too and I can't seem nervous. Good luck I hope she loves it.

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Some will argue but the Sunsetter LX hull is the most versatile Malibu made. Great ski wakes and weighted properly it will throw a very nice wake for boarding.

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He did mention that he left the key on to run the stereo. He's not denyed that he used it though, he was out last weekend, all weekend (I know because I was trying to call him to see it and he was on the lake!).

He also said he often would let it idle to recharge the battery after running the stereo a while, but that is all a small fraction of the hours.

I called the dealer, and they charge $204 + tax to do compression, and start it on the hose. Doesn't sound that great to me...? They said they will also check for trouble codes.

Here's a question, if there are codes in the system, do they trigger a "check engine light," or could they be stored with no light? I saw a post on checking them with an LED, but it wasn't clear enough to make me want to do it without better instruction. Likewise, I didn't see a list of codes to match the flashes to (ie. x amount of flashes = trouble code y). Does anyone have better directions for this? I've pulled codes on older odb1 cars with a jumper wire, so if you can point me in the right direction, I can do this too.

Thanks!

If they pull the hours $204 isn't terrible for a full inspection, isn't great but alot cheaper than buying a lemon.

If they just pull the hours/codes should only be billed for 1/2 hour of labor max.

-Chris

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He did mention that he left the key on to run the stereo. He's not denyed that he used it though, he was out last weekend, all weekend (I know because I was trying to call him to see it and he was on the lake!).

He also said he often would let it idle to recharge the battery after running the stereo a while, but that is all a small fraction of the hours.

I called the dealer, and they charge $204 + tax to do compression, and start it on the hose. Doesn't sound that great to me...? They said they will also check for trouble codes.

Here's a question, if there are codes in the system, do they trigger a "check engine light," or could they be stored with no light? I saw a post on checking them with an LED, but it wasn't clear enough to make me want to do it without better instruction. Likewise, I didn't see a list of codes to match the flashes to (ie. x amount of flashes = trouble code y). Does anyone have better directions for this? I've pulled codes on older odb1 cars with a jumper wire, so if you can point me in the right direction, I can do this too.

Thanks!

If they pull the hours $204 isn't terrible for a full inspection, isn't great but alot cheaper than buying a lemon.

If they just pull the hours/codes should only be billed for 1/2 hour of labor max.

-Chris

I think that for that price (in addition to pulling the hours) I'd ask them to do a leakdown as well.

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I think with that many hours I would do as suggested from everyone, maybe you could work something out with the owner to reduce the price in case it all checks out. If it doesn't then your out anyway and at least the owner will know if there is anything wrong with further causing question of the boat.

Is there a selling price that I missed? Didn't see it Dontknow.gif

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I disgaree with the hour naysayers. It seems like the folks who are new to inboards often underestimate the life span of these engines, especially if they are properly maintained. I have been in boats with thousands of hours (I seem to recall one with almost 4k). If the interior is well taken care of, then that says a lot about the maintenance. The hours don't bother me a bit so long as compression is OK. HEck even if it's not if you're getting a good enough buy, buy some RESTORE and leterrip!

As to dontw8's comments regarding rotten floors and stringers, first of all, rotten floors are no big deal and can be replaced easily. Rotten stringers are slightly more problematic. However, I'm 99% sure that there was no wood used in 1998, but wait for confirmation of that. you should be able to tell by the floor behind the engine which should come up easily. If composite, it's very very likely the boat is fiberglass throughout. If wood, do some more looking around, but again I'm very very confident that it was all glass and plastic in 98.

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4000 hours is unreasonable to expect from a boat used by a private owner, especially in a boat that is 11 years old. It would not be unreasonable to expect having to do some top end work on a boat with 1250 hours in the near (250-500 hours) future.

Club boats, ski school boats, camp boats, etc they can go the distance (hours wise) but that is a special case.

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Thanks for everyones opinions, I'll take it all in consideration.

What would you say is a reasonable price range for a boat with 1250 hours? It also has a tower, a wedge, and comes with several ballast bags.

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50 hours=depending on your opinion, 3-5k miles. Even taking the higher estimate of 5k (in terms of wear and tear on drive components), 1000 hours = 100,000 miles, which would be the "high" estimation. Is it really too much to expect a 350 built in 1998 to last for several hundred thousand miles? I don't think so.

YEs I realize that 4k is not a reasonable expectation, just making the point that properly maintained boats can and do last a very long time.

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My 2002 Duramax has 55570 miles and 1883 hours on it. That is 29.51 mph average.

At 30 mph at 1750 hours would be 52,500 miles.

Assume 2000 rpm for a GAS truck engine = 210 million revolutions.

The problem is that a truck engine is not under the constant load that a boat engine is.

If you figure the average rpm of a gas boat engine would be 3000 rpm that would be 315 million revolutions in 1750 hours.

So if you assume a boat to turn 150% of truck rpms then the equivalent truck mileage at 1750 hours is equivalent to 78,750 miles.

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Although this boat does not have a tower or ballast bags, it does only have 310 hours and is pretty comparable with the 325 monsoon, wedge, tandem trailer and some misc ski gear. Looking at the price on this boat and guessing you could probably get it for $15 or maybe $14,500, I would say the one your looking at is worth no more than $12,000 even if everything checks out ok. JMO

http://boise.craigslist.org/boa/1225582049.html

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With that many hours, 10k is all I would pay. Lots of good deals out there and if this person really wants to sell their boat they will drop the price to compensate for the hours.

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So what do the rest of you think? If it was you and you could buy a boat with this many hours for $10k, would you do it?

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