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How Much Throttle For Deep Water Slalom Start?


GrantD

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Not sure if covered in another area on site...but man...our 94 Echelon pulls wayyyy too hard with the classic "hit it" slam down the throttle.

My forearms are just now feeling no pain...five days later!

I've deep water slalom started off many boats without issue. After the first attempt on our Echelon, had wife only go part throttle until she saw me coming up and then hit to complete pulling me out.

A bit disappointing I don't just "pop out" as I still have the "wall of water" in my face with this Malibu as I did with plain jane v-hull openbows...

Took several attempts to get up when last year on a bayliner with that small 3.0 liter 4 banger, I got up quickly.

So, with feet in bindings deep water start, any slalom skiers out there with advice on how to throttle the boat? Then when running, for an avg skier and not on a course, any speed recommendations? Generally I ski around 25-32MPH...

Oh...should point out wife driving boat and very inexperienced at doing so.

Thanks

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here are a few tips -

get the boat to your normal ski speed (30?), and look at the tach. remember that number.

get behind the boat with your ski on, as usual and do all the normal skiing stuff (rope slack, get steady ...)

have your driver then gradually accelerate up to the earlier tach speed (maybe a steady 2 second transition from idle to this set point)

as the boat accelerates, then it will stabilize very near your set speed.

this will keep the boat from jumping out of the hole and pulling your arms out.

This assumes you do not have some speed control - if you do, use a preset and just get the throttle into the right range.

I had to do this on my old i/o, especially with smaller skiiers - and it works well.

As far as speed - it depends on your size and rope length.

the bigger you are, the faster you need pulled to stay on top of the water and have a good.

Edited by Soon2BV
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Determine what RPM's are for your skier's preferred skiing speed; example 3300 RPM.

When skier yells "GO BOAT! " push the throttle forward at a moderately fast effort. Gradual first 20 feet then quicker.

When target RPM (say 3300) is reached pull throttle back gradually to exactly maintain (say 3300) cruising RPM for that skier until your skier speed is reached. .

I find that in the 3 different boats that I pull a skier behind that I can properly maintain my course speed more accurately by constantly monitoring the RPM rather than the speedo.

Of course first you need to know the correct RPM for the correct speed for that skier.

This all assumes that you have a boat with normal direct drive hole shot or an I/O that has been propped down 2 to 4 inches in pitch to get out quickly. With an I/O or outboard make sure the outdrive is tucked all the way forward into the transom to keep that nose down.

Edited by DONTW8
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have a 94 Echelon with the 265HP motor...and not sure putting it right to 3000RPM works...it's a heckova lot pull on the forearms.

have never not gotten up or had sore forearms for days...so kinda bumded about this boat. Never knew it pulled so hard and would have to work as hard...if not harder...to get up versus any kind of I/O or OB boat I've been behind...

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martinarcher

I would think my Skier pulls about the same and I have my driver give me a smooth 2 second to full throttle pull and then pull it back as the boat planes out. I have the rope attached to the tower usually, but I pop right out on a single ski. Are you on the pylon? I wonder if the pylon on the I/O was higher off the water giving a higher pull angle?

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Well, your arms are sore because the boat has more power, or your form has changed getting up, or both. You should be able to get up quicker if the boat has more pull. If you get the tip of the ski too deep you can end up pushing a wall of water that puts tremendous force on your arms before you get pulled out of it. If you don't mind answering, how much do you weight and what ski/length are you using? That information will help with our dispensing of endless suggestions! (PS, don't be surprised if at some point someone suggests you buy something Whistling.gif )

Edit - I suggest that you work with your wife in doing practice acceleration runs with no skier, so she gets the feel for gradually applying the right amount of throttle as opposed to slamming it full throttle.

Edited by TheBlackPearl
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your body position is what make the big difference. I will say I do not like full throttle in one shot. I tell drivers give me one second of moderate throttle and then go to full.

You need to have your knees bent and your butt on the rear of the ski. Also push your toes down like you trying to hold the ski down with your toes, this will make the ski plain faster and take the strain off your legs and back.

My bet is you are pushing the ski out with your legs.

DO NOT YELL AT YOUR WIFE. It may take part of the year but gentle coaching and you will end up with a good driver.

I always told my wife how good she did and than slipped in a suggestion for one small change at a time.

Deep water starting is in most part all technique, get it wrong and you will get up but fight it all the way.

Size is not the big factor I am quite large if I get it right I come out fast and no strain. get it wrong and I am tired from the start.

Tip of the ski 8" or 9"out of the water.

As the boat starts to move collapse your knees and get you butt on the tail of the ski.

Start pointing your tows down and

stand up as the ski is nearly on plain.

It's not the Boat. Whistling.gif

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If you still find yourself struggling to hang on and get up, you may also need to do some strength training in your core, arms, and shoulders. It makes a world of difference.

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I'm about like 6Ball.. 2/3 relatively quickly, then pause for a second or so, then full throttle. Lets me get stable on the ski, then up on plane quickly... I have pulled many people who like a VERY light pull. I don't think I take them above 1/2 throttle the whole time.

Once you get used to it, the power & ability to get up quickly is great....

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A bit disappointing I don't just "pop out" as I still have the "wall of water" in my face with this Malibu as I did with plain jane v-hull openbows...
It's not the Boat.

Plus1.gif

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Make sure all the slack is out of the rope and you and the boat are lined up in a straight line and she has the steering set to go as straight as possible ( you may have to get dragged a little bit). Hitting it and going crooked makes a big difference in how easy it will be to get up. I get up way easier when my wife is driving than when my kids are driving. I use an over under grip and keep my arms bent with my elbows in tight against my body. When the driver hits it I let my arms go straight and then pull them back in tight against my body . If you time it right you just pop right up. If all else fails I always blame the driver.

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Make sure all the slack is out of the rope and you and the boat are lined up in a straight line and she has the steering set to go as straight as possible ( you may have to get dragged a little bit). Hitting it and going crooked makes a big difference in how easy it will be to get up. I get up way easier when my wife is driving than when my kids are driving. I use an over under grip and keep my arms bent with my elbows in tight against my body. When the driver hits it I let my arms go straight and then pull them back in tight against my body . If you time it right you just pop right up. If all else fails I always blame the driver.

Let your arms all the way straight out and no rope slack......most people like a gradual up to about half throttle.....

Its not the boat....once you get if figured it out you pop right up..I drop and get up 10-12 times every time I ski.

if you're a big dude 220+ the shaped skis are easier to pop up on.

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My wife had the same issue when we got our first Malibu. It really takes a driver time to get used to not throwing it full throttle down to get a skier up as you have to with an I/O. A few things we did to solve my sore arms flying out of their sockets problem:

1. Use the mirror. Go about half throttle to get the skier going out of the water. As they are getting pulled out (watch them iun the mirror), gradually increase throttle until they are out. Gradually decrease throttle to ski speed. Let the skier tell you to increase speed. I consider myself a above average skier and I ski at 33 -35 depending on water conditions.

2. Big thing to remember for deep water startes is to reduce your body drag as much as possible. Knees need to be slightly bent but if you have bo9th feet in the bindings it is very important to keep that back knee behind your front knee. If they are separated this creates more drag which makes it more difficult and longer to get up.

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Try your spare prop if you have one. If you're using your power prop it will rip it out quicker. A speed prop will have more slippage on take-off, giving you that feeling you're used to.

I tell me driver to hit it as hard as they can, I pop right up. If a driver takes off too slow, my hair gets wet! hahaha

Edited by JasonK
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I don't think I've ever heard someone comaplin about their new boat having too much power. Just because the power is at your disposal doesn't mean to you have to use it. At our setup we have barely 100 yards to get up to speed so ppass is ready for the gates (36 mph no less). We still never pin the throttle. My suggestion is that your wife learn how to "roll" into the throttle. Too much pull at the start comes from the skier having too much drag and the boat coming out too hard. She needs ot be more patient until you're coming on plane (less drag), then once you're planing, can give you some more juice. Anyone have an old accuski available? It had an auto pull up feature that was programmable. Shame they're no more.

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We have the same boat with a 3 blade prop. Ususally for me is a 1 sec roll to full power...like many have said that tucking the ski to your butt and keeping your arms slightly bent will aid in a easier start.

I tell the wife usually as soon as the rope is tight and I shout "Hit it!" start counting "1 mississippi" then push the trottle counting again "2 mississippi", by the end of "2 mississippi" the throttle should be at its final position...then back it dial in the desired RPM's once on plane. With the carb engine you will get a smoother and (I think quicker as well) acceleration if you do not "slam" the throttle.

I have found that keeping my knees bent and tucked up and remembering to push down my toes gets me out faster, usually before I even make it into the prop wash. (but I am 5'10" & 160 lb)

Your weight is a big factor as well and how your weight is positioned over the ski makes all the difference. These two are prob the biggest factors on how fast you pop out of the water.

When I hear people complain that their arms hurt I remind them that the ski is menat to slice through the water...not push the water out of it's way. If your arms are tired then you are usually fighting the water not working with it. Change the pitch of your ski, shift your weight foward and push more down than out, and you'll find your arms will do have to work as hard.

Just my .02.

Edited by Ramman17
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We have the same boat with a 3 blade prop. Ususally for me is a 1 sec roll to full power...like many have said that tucking the ski to your butt and keeping your arms slightly bent will aid in a easier start.

I tell the wife usually as soon as the rope is tight and I shout "Hit it!" start counting "1 mississippi" then push the trottle counting again "2 mississippi", by the end of "2 mississippi" the throttle should be at its final position...then back it dial in the desired RPM's once on plane. With the carb engine you will get a smoother and (I think quicker as well) acceleration if you do not "slam" the throttle.

I have found that keeping my knees bent and tucked up and remembering to push down my toes gets me out faster, usually before I even make it into the prop wash. (but I am 5'10" & 160 lb)

Your weight is a big factor as well and how your weight is positioned over the ski makes all the difference. These two are prob the biggest factors on how fast you pop out of the water.

When I hear people complain that their arms hurt I remind them that the ski is menat to slice through the water...not push the water out of it's way. If your arms are tired then you are usually fighting the water not working with it. Change the pitch of your ski, shift your weight foward and push more down than out, and you'll find your arms will do have to work as hard.

Just my .02.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but sometimes I'll use my knees (open them one way or the other to stay straight) when the driver is getting the slack out of the rope. It's important to remember to keep your knees together right when the boat starts to pull. Otherwise I think everyone has covered it pretty good with advise :)

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whew! love the passion from you all.

Good news is just needed some time and apply some of the thoughts here both for me and driver (wife)

was doing all the right things as noted in terms of position...still...pointed my ski a bit more level and brought the tail up too to begin with. That seems to have helped along with better throttle roll.

Work out 5 days a week...but come on...let's face it. First time out on ski every year and you feel it. And it does matter when one is 46. Not saying ready for retirement home...just not the same as early 30's.

While I've had this ski for years - a TaperFlex by Puritan - I believe it's short for me. 68" and I'm 6 foot 195 lbs. I'm good with having to buy a different ski...have heard about these "fat" skis that make it even easier to start and cut. My current ski does seem a bit narrow now that I look at it compared to these "fat" skis...

In any event, all suggestions helped for sure. Now just curious as to if I should be on a 70" wider ski.

Thanks!

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You likely want a slightly larger/newer ski than the 68" older ski, however, for many of the newer skis, a 68" might be the correct size - depends on the ski.

Often times as you go wider, you will go shorter too.

You'll want to stay away from the WIDE WIDE rides (Big Daddy, etc).

One of the Wide/shaped HO Triumph, Obrien Synchro, Radar Theory, HO Burner (in 67") or Medium/shaped Connelly F1X, Radar Senate, HO Nitro (67 - 69") might help.

Best thing you could do it try some of them, check the weight charts and see what you like.

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A bit disappointing I don't just "pop out" as I still have the "wall of water" in my face with this Malibu as I did with plain jane v-hull openbows...
It's not the Boat.

Plus1.gif

Plus1.gif

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You'll want to stay away from the WIDE WIDE rides (Big Daddy, etc).

Best thing you could do it try some of them, check the weight charts and see what you like.

I second trying some. I skied a Synchro for quite a while. Great ski. Now though, I ski a 69 Big Daddy...and it keeps me on the water. No one is going to take postcard shots of me and my cuts, but I have a great time out there. And with that ski, I can be truly working it behind the boat for 10 minutes or more before my arms are shot. And if I wipe out, I'm not irritated because getting back up isn't that big a deal. With the tip out of the water to the point between the two 'n's on the ski, collapse my knees and literally sit on the board until I can stand up, it's almost no spray and I don't think I could count to 4 before I'm over 20mph and vertical.

I'm mid 40's and 6'2" 235#.

I'm not trying to prove anything, or improve any skills. At my age and fitness level, I'm just back there because I like to ski. If that's the same for you - then I can recommend from experience either the Synchro or the Big Daddy and 68 or 69 should be just about right.

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i agree with the HO Truimph.

There are charts that provide a recommended size for weight and boat speed.

Also, according to their customer service, Overtons will allow you to return a ski if it isn't a good for for you.

You have to pay the shipping on the return, but pretty low risk.

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FWIW - I'm 45, 6'2", 245 & ski on a 69" Radar Senate-C - I really like the ski after coming from an HO Charger & Vengeance. I've skied some of the 70" top-end skis & will take the Senate over them for my abilities (still occasionally working on 15 off, but free-ski at 30 - 34, typically 32). It's not as easy to get up on as the Charger was, but once I'm up & going, it skies so much nicer. Still is easier to get up on than the 70" high end sticks & much easier than 68" high end sticks.

Edited by wienrdog
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