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How Much Throttle For Deep Water Slalom Start?


GrantD

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your body position is what make the big difference. I will say I do not like full throttle in one shot. I tell drivers give me one second of moderate throttle and then go to full.

You need to have your knees bent and your butt on the rear of the ski. Also push your toes down like you trying to hold the ski down with your toes, this will make the ski plain faster and take the strain off your legs and back.

My bet is you are pushing the ski out with your legs.

DO NOT YELL AT YOUR WIFE. It may take part of the year but gentle coaching and you will end up with a good driver.

I always told my wife how good she did and than slipped in a suggestion for one small change at a time.

Deep water starting is in most part all technique, get it wrong and you will get up but fight it all the way.

Size is not the big factor I am quite large if I get it right I come out fast and no strain. get it wrong and I am tired from the start.

Tip of the ski 8" or 9"out of the water.

As the boat starts to move collapse your knees and get you butt on the tail of the ski.

Start pointing your tows down and

stand up as the ski is nearly on plain.

It's not the Boat. Whistling.gif

Good advice, does the nose ever sink?

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  • 2 years later...

At 52 years, I can tell you it doesn't get easier to stay in shape for the water as we age but the dividends are tremendous. Definitely share your difficulties when I don't pay close attention to the items all mentioned prior so just encourage you to revisit the tips you got here if/when you begin to experience any difficulties whatsoever! Currently riding the Radar Theory 69" (I'm short @ 5'6" for this ski but have a large frame from weight lifting/bodybuilding at earlier age with 48 inch chest and weigh in a tad over 200 lb's. The Radar Theory ski has a nice ride and cuts well along with providing a stable and balanced platform for this ol'man. C'yaondawater!

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Went the whole season never missed a start then the other day I missed three times. :( Sat in the water a moment and thought about what I was doing. (I am not talking about it) Got my $#it together and came out without any problem. So easy to get back to a bad habit.

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Seems I've been experiencing the same sort of issues as some of the other posts here. Skied for 40 years, then as I hit the 50 plus age bracket started to put on weight and for the first time found it tough to get up on a slalom ski. Took the "easy" way out and bought a Jobe wide body ski and started enjoying my sking again. Then my doctor told me I had high cholestoral and had to diet and exercise, which I did. This combined with the encouragement of my ski buddy, who is the same age (57) and a great slalom skiier got me back onto a slalom ski again.

At first I had a few problems getting out the water, I think 4 years on the wide body ski taught me bad habits. With too much throttle I was going over the front of the ski at take off, probably a technique flaw. I certainly like a slower take off until I'm out of the water, but it's getting easier. I start with my back foot out of the binding, always started this way as I learnt to beach start before deep water start as a 10 year old. Don't know how many of you start this way but I've always found it easier to maintain balance.

From a personal point of view I'm glad I did go back to a normal size ski, both for my health and skiing pleasure, but for those who are having trouble with the onset of age and kilos etc. the wide body ski is a great alternative. Without it I may have given skiing away altogether.

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Took several attempts to get up when last year on a bayliner with that small 3.0 liter 4 banger, I got up quickly.

Unless you are 120lbs - you didn't get out quickly. I owned a 16'9" Sea Ray I/O w/ a 3.0L for 11 years. To the point I had to replace the old motor with a brand new crate motor, had a very dialed in prop for pulling (basically, it ran strong for what it was), and that thing still drowned me on slalom coming out (6'3", 210-225lbs depending on how crappy I've been eating).

I don't slalom a lot, but did the last time out on a set borrowing a ski. We just roll on the throttle and it pops us right out...hammering it just rips the rope from your hands. I don't even have to hold my breath like I did on the I/O. I find our Malibu almost unsettling on how fast I come out of the water...too many years of drowning that I'm not using to just getting out and going.

Edited by Nitrousbird
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It is very common to get your ski to square to the boat. One needs to get the tip out of the water but have the tip pointing towards the boat. this gets the ski to plain very quick. If you have the ski to strait up and down the boat pull will collapse your body over the ski and cause one to go over the toe of the ski.

I hope I am explaining this so all can understand.

the fores on your body and hands if you do it wright is nothing so if you feel a heavy pull try pointing your ski more towards the boat like a 45 deg. angle.

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The size of the TAIL of the ski is what I find makes it easier or harder to come up....the wider the tail the easier it is to get up and on top of the water.....you don't need a ski with a wide fore body to help you get up easier, just a wide tale....JMHO

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Yeah, it's funny, every once in a while, I'll tip over to the side and miss the start. Then I get I nervous and feel like I'm going to irritate the people in the boat and it gets worse the next time! Then, like Sixball, I collect my thoughts, keep my knees tucked and get right up.

My neighbor lost 60lbs over the winter and couldn't up the first time out this Spring! I thought he would have flown up out of the water.

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RULE: "The skier who misses the start automatically has to buy the beer".

After an occassional miss...its amazing how nervous get on the second try.

I always say the 3rd needs to bring the beer, that way if you have a flawless day you still have a cold one on the ride back to the ramp/hoist.

My younger brother has the same issue (6'-2" 195 lbs, skiing an F1x 67"). My parents have an older I/O with a 302 in it. To get him out we would just hammer the throttle and he would get out no problem. When he skis behind my boat it can take up to 12 pulls to get him up...then if we go ski the course he can hit all 6 buoys at 33 mph. I think it has a lot to do with his ski & body position during the tug (and driver throttle control). With an I/O you can be lazy and just hammer the tail to get the ski to plane. As mentioned before with a DD you have to have 7-10" of the ski nose out of the water, have it pointed an angle toward the boat, while curled up in a ball, providing steady pressure on the tail, and not standing too early. I love watching the old school guys that dunk under water before getting up. I've started tweaking my ski at a slight angle (opening my hips a little), at the initial tug, the pull seems to be a little easier on the body.

Also take the wife out and have her practice her pull ups without a skier behind the boat (DON"T YELL AT HER!!). A DD is a whole different animal than an I/O.

Edited by Joeprunc
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  • 9 years later...

Reviving this thread because I still need help. I have a radar katana ski that I bought a couple years ago but haven’t skied on it yet. I’m one of those guys that have always had a hard time getting up on slalom and dunk all the way under water on my way up and don’t know why. So bad is it that I tore a bicep tendon about 5 years ago. Haven’t been on a slalom since but can pop up on two no problem. I’d like to slalom this year without needing to drop a ski so more advice please. When I tried this past year, I ended up laying on my back in the water one time and let go. The other time I was pulled to one side. When I get up on two, my body is tight and arms bent in towards my body. My back is at a great angle , knees bent, and I just flow up easily and quickly. Arms never extend until Im ready for them to. Take a ski off and I’m all over the place. For slalom, I used to let the boat compress my knees and pull my arms forward towards the front of the ski. Then I’d eventually come up if I could hold on and hold breath long enough. Advice? Other thoughts?

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Have you tried a deep V rope?

https://www.amazon.com/AIRHEAD-Ski-Rope-Deep-V/dp/B000OF9JI0/ref=sr_1_16?crid=1W0G0CEJGZQVN&keywords=gladiator+slalom+trainer&qid=1650941888&sprefix=gladiator+slalom+trainer%2Caps%2C95&sr=8-16

 

Or search for Gladiator slalom trainer.  I've taught a few people to slalom with these ropes.  They are a big help keeping the ski lined up as you are being dragged.  Worth a try for not much money. 

 

  • Like 2
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2 hours ago, williemon said:

Reviving this thread because I still need help. I have a radar katana ski that I bought a couple years ago but haven’t skied on it yet. I’m one of those guys that have always had a hard time getting up on slalom and dunk all the way under water on my way up and don’t know why. So bad is it that I tore a bicep tendon about 5 years ago. Haven’t been on a slalom since but can pop up on two no problem. I’d like to slalom this year without needing to drop a ski so more advice please. When I tried this past year, I ended up laying on my back in the water one time and let go. The other time I was pulled to one side. When I get up on two, my body is tight and arms bent in towards my body. My back is at a great angle , knees bent, and I just flow up easily and quickly. Arms never extend until Im ready for them to. Take a ski off and I’m all over the place. For slalom, I used to let the boat compress my knees and pull my arms forward towards the front of the ski. Then I’d eventually come up if I could hold on and hold breath long enough. Advice? Other thoughts?

I always tell people to put their arms around their knees and try to touch their nose to the tip of the ski as they come up.  You really want to get your body mass as close to the ski as possible and keep it forward so that the tip is barely out of the water, or maybe just under the surface as you are moving.  If you can picture it in your mind, you want the handle as forward and as close to the center of pressure of the ski as you can get it.  If you are going out the back or the side, you are pushing against the ski.  This makes the distance to the center of pressure longer, and it brings the handle aft, which makes you unstable. 

A boom with a short line would help you develop technique.  Lower the boom toward the water as you get better.  Also, I think intentionally dumping yourself out of the front of the ski a few times would help you learn to actually get your weight forward.

As for the driver, I want someone who can smoothly roll in the throttle over about two or three seconds, peaking at maybe 3500 RPM.  I prefer about two seconds to three, but I'd take three before I'd take one second.

  • Like 3
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I know there is some people that don't put their back foot in while the boat initially accelerates and then put the back foot in. This is to help people keep their weight in front. I believe its called dragging a foot.

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Are you dragging a foot or starting with both in?

what foot is forward? How did you decide?

what is your height/weight and size of ski?

Edited by braindamage
  • Like 1
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9 hours ago, justgary said:

I always tell people to put their arms around their knees and try to touch their nose to the tip of the ski as they come up.  You really want to get your body mass as close to the ski as possible and keep it forward so that the tip is barely out of the water, or maybe just under the surface as you are moving.  If you can picture it in your mind, you want the handle as forward and as close to the center of pressure of the ski as you can get it.  If you are going out the back or the side, you are pushing against the ski.  This makes the distance to the center of pressure longer, and it brings the handle aft, which makes you unstable. 

A boom with a short line would help you develop technique.  Lower the boom toward the water as you get better.  Also, I think intentionally dumping yourself out of the front of the ski a few times would help you learn to actually get your weight forward.

As for the driver, I want someone who can smoothly roll in the throttle over about two or three seconds, peaking at maybe 3500 RPM.  I prefer about two seconds to three, but I'd take three before I'd take one second.

I second all of this, great way to explain it.

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8 hours ago, roeboat said:

I know there is some people that don't put their back foot in while the boat initially accelerates and then put the back foot in. This is to help people keep their weight in front. I believe its called dragging a foot.

I don't put my back foot in until I am fully up.  Makes it so much easier to get up.  

  • Like 2
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9 hours ago, justgary said:

I always tell people to put their arms around their knees and try to touch their nose to the tip of the ski as they come up.  You really want to get your body mass as close to the ski as possible and keep it forward so that the tip is barely out of the water, or maybe just under the surface as you are moving.  If you can picture it in your mind, you want the handle as forward and as close to the center of pressure of the ski as you can get it.  If you are going out the back or the side, you are pushing against the ski.  This makes the distance to the center of pressure longer, and it brings the handle aft, which makes you unstable. 

A boom with a short line would help you develop technique.  Lower the boom toward the water as you get better.  Also, I think intentionally dumping yourself out of the front of the ski a few times would help you learn to actually get your weight forward.

As for the driver, I want someone who can smoothly roll in the throttle over about two or three seconds, peaking at maybe 3500 RPM.  I prefer about two seconds to three, but I'd take three before I'd take one second.

I’d add a couple comments:

1) if you have a tower, use that. It’ll help pull up vs laterally.

2) you should let your arms go straight. If you are using biceps to get up then you are doing it wrong. 

3) the most important tip: always focus your attention on the tip of the ski. Keep it about 5-7” out of the water and in front of you. If it sinks lower, then you are too far forward, more and you are too far back. I find this simple tip to be the biggest difference as it cuts to the point of all the other tips.

  • Like 2
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7 minutes ago, braindamage said:

I’d add a couple comments:

1) if you have a tower, use that. It’ll help pull up vs laterally.

2) you should let your arms go straight. If you are using biceps to get up then you are doing it wrong. 

3) the most important tip: always focus your attention on the tip of the ski. Keep it about 5-7” out of the water and in front of you. If it sinks lower, then you are too far forward, more and you are too far back. I find this simple tip to be the biggest difference as it cuts to the point of all the other tips.

I personally think that you could go much lower than the 5-7" depending on your weight and the particular ski.  I still use a late-1980's Connelly Shortline II only 67" long that really doesn't like to help me get up at all.  I start at idle with maybe 5", then hold that or maybe a bit less through the pull out.  But certainly don't let more than 5-7" come up.

Getting up on slalom is basically a parlor trick.  The correct technique is learned through repetition.  Strength can help you bully the job, but mostly it is about weight distribution and balance.

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ahopkins22LSV

@justgary and @braindamage have posted phenomenal advice. The only other tip I’ll add is keeping the handle at your toes of your front foot is something I’ve used in the past with newer skiers that seems to help.
 

Everyone has their different cues but the suggestions here have been great. Mine are always, stay compact, arms straight, stay patient, stand up calmly and centered. Everyone once and a while I don’t do those things and barely get up. It would bring my friends great pleasure if I fell getting up on a slalom so I always muscle through it but my point is it can happen to anyone at any given time. 

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2 hours ago, justgary said:

  I start at idle with maybe 5", then hold that or maybe a bit less through the pull out. 

Good stuff. The reason I reference 5-7” is that I find that people either bury the ski under the water or try to lean way back and end up with 12” out.

The point is not to be exact, but to be measured in keeping a bit of the tip out and in front of you. Weight of skier and length/width of ski will cause variations.

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@williemon I've had this trouble too at times - the ski makes a difference for me - some are just easier.   Honestly look at a Terrain or Session.  I get up both feet in and find it helps if I tilt the ski to the left (like 10:00, I'm left foot forward)  that allows me to get my knees closer to my chest.     Both palms down and keep your arms straight.   ask the driver to give you a soft pull. 

Edited by SkiPablo
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A couple of additional tips:  1.  both palms down on handle (and don't bend elbows as already noted)  2. rope on opposite side of which foot forward (ie:  RFF rope on left side of ski)

By trial and error, amount of throttle to get skier up, not intuitive as I have a 200+ lb buddy that uses a very slow and progressive throttle roll on.  Other tips, some people like a simple hit it and go from rest, others like a 'in gear' then accelerate when they say 'hit it' as that tends to straighten them out and stop floundering.  I find skiers that try to constantly fight to stay 'balanced' while sitting in the water struggle more to get up.  As Ahop noted, stay compact, and don't try to stand up too fast, we always say let the boat do the work, its got 300+ hp and your already paying for the gas.  If your going over the front, that is an indication your trying to stand up too soon.  Good Luck.

Edited by Woodski
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17 minutes ago, Woodski said:

A couple of additional tips:  1.  both palms down on handle (and don't bend elbows as already noted)  2. rope on opposite side of which foot forward (ie:  RFF rope on left side of ski)

By trial and error, amount of throttle to get skier up, not intuitive as I have a 200+ lb buddy that uses a very slow and progressive throttle roll on.  Other tips, some people like a simple hit it and go from rest, others like a in gear then accelerate when they say hit it as that tends to straighten them out and stop floundering.  I find skiers that try to constantly fight to stay 'balanced' while siting in the water struggle more to get up.  As Ahop noted, stay compact, and don't try to stand up too fast, we always say let the boat do the work, its got 300+ hp and your already paying for the gas.  If your going over the front, that is an indication your trying to stand up too soon.  Good Luck.

I was like that for a long time too where I'd like a slow roll on from a dead stop.  Recently I've started with an "in gear" then "go" type of approach since that's what I was getting whenever I'd ski with pro coaches.  If you can stay aligned while you're being dragged, it's way less wear and tear on the arms, shoulders, forearms, etc.  But when you get crossed up on the drag after you say "go," it can be a bit of a rodeo getting out of the water.  :)

 

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