Boat stalled

[caw32073]

Had my 2005 Sportster with the LCR320 out today and it ran fine. On our last run I was pulling my son on the tube at a little more than idle speed. After about five minutes of this I sped up and the engine sputtered and died. I tried to restart it and it cranked fine but did not fire up. Had to get a tow off the lake. Tried to start it again at the landing and it still would not fire. When I got it home I cranked it and after a few tries it started right up. Any ideas on what this could be. I dont know about vapor lock since it started and then died as we were running it. Then it would not start back up. Wouldn't it not have even started originally if it was vapor lock?

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Sounds like vapor lock to me, just experienced it myself on Friday. Had you been running the boat prior to pulling your son on the tube (was the engine already fully warmed up)? If not, then I wouldn't expect you generated enough heat to boil the fuel in the rail. But if so, it is very easy for the fuel in the rail to boil while idling - there just isn't enough fuel flow to cool the rail. You may have been on the hairy edge - just enough liquid fuel to keep the engine running at idle, but as soon as you opened the throttle (and needed more fuel to match the airflow), the engine leans out and stalls. At that point, there is no longer any fuel flow at all, and the rest of the fuel in the rail boils. At this point, you will not be able to start it.

Easiest way to confirm is to open the schrader valve on the fuel rail (looks like an oversized stem valve on your car or bicycle tire). Then, being very careful to cover with a rag, depress the valve mechanism. If you are vapor locked, you will get what seems like air coming out (actually fuel vapor) with just a little bit of liquid fuel. Under normal circumstances, you would expect to get nothing but liquid fuel spray. I can't emphasize enough the criticality of covering that schrader valve with a rag before depressing the stem!!! The fuel in that rail is pressurized, and you don't want the uncontrolled spray going all over a hot engine (nevermind the rest of the things in your boat).

A couple things you can do to get yourself running again:

1. Open the motor box cover to help get the heat away from the engine.

2. Take a moderately wet towel and drape it around the top of the engine near the fuel rail.

3. Turn the key on to energize the fuel pump, then (again being careful to cover with a rag) bleed the vapor from the fuel rail using the schrader valve - you will eventually feel the rag being soaked with cool liquid fuel.

At this point, the engine should start and off you go. I was successful getting my boat started on Friday using steps 1 and 3 only, after about 15 minutes (and half that time was spent just clearing my head of the panic that was beginning to set in - thought I was going to have to be towed in by my buddy in his Nautique ).

I see you are in Wisconsin. A couple other thoughts on why you saw the problem at all:

1. What was the ethanol content of the fuel you are using in the boat? Is it higher than E10 (10% ethanol)? I wouldn't expect E10 to be particularly sensitive, but if you by chance are using E20 (or higher), it is definitely a concern (along with a lot of other problems that would bring for your engine).

2. When did you fuel your boat last? If it has been a while, or if you used a gas can that had been sitting around for a while, you could have been using a winter blend of fuel. That fuel is designed to vaporize at lower temperatures to help cars run better during the cold season.

Edited June 15, 2009 by SunriseH2OSkier

[caw32073]

Sounds like vapor lock to me, just experienced it myself on Friday. Had you been running the boat prior to pulling your son on the tube (was the engine already fully warmed up)? If not, then I wouldn't expect you generated enough heat to boil the fuel in the rail. But if so, it is very easy for the fuel in the rail to boil while idling - there just isn't enough fuel flow to cool the rail. You may have been on the hairy edge - just enough liquid fuel to keep the engine running at idle, but as soon as you opened the throttle (and needed more fuel to match the airflow), the engine leans out and stalls. At that point, there is no longer any fuel flow at all, and the rest of the fuel in the rail boils. At this point, you will not be able to start it.

Easiest way to confirm is to open the schrader valve on the fuel rail (looks like an oversized stem valve on your car or bicycle tire). Then, being very careful to cover with a rag, depress the valve mechanism. If you are vapor locked, you will get what seems like air coming out (actually fuel vapor) with just a little bit of liquid fuel. Under normal circumstances, you would expect to get nothing but liquid fuel spray. I can't emphasize enough the criticality of covering that schrader valve with a rag before depressing the stem!!! The fuel in that rail is pressurized, and you don't want the uncontrolled spray going all over a hot engine (nevermind the rest of the things in your boat).

A couple things you can do to get yourself running again:

1. Open the motor box cover to help get the heat away from the engine.

2. Take a moderately wet towel and drape it around the top of the engine near the fuel rail.

3. Turn the key on to energize the fuel pump, then (again being careful to cover with a rag) bleed the vapor from the fuel rail using the schrader valve - you will eventually feel the rag being soaked with cool liquid fuel.

At this point, the engine should start and off you go. I was successful getting my boat started on Friday using steps 1 and 3 only, after about 15 minutes (and half that time was spent just clearing my head of the panic that was beginning to set in - thought I was going to have to be towed in by my buddy in his Nautique ).

I see you are in Wisconsin. A couple other thoughts on why you saw the problem at all:

1. What was the ethanol content of the fuel you are using in the boat? Is it higher than E10 (10% ethanol)? I wouldn't expect E10 to be particularly sensitive, but if you by chance are using E20 (or higher), it is definitely a concern (along with a lot of other problems that would bring for your engine).

2. When did you fuel your boat last? If it has been a while, or if you used a gas can that had been sitting around for a while, you could have been using a winter blend of fuel. That fuel is designed to vaporize at lower temperatures to help cars run better during the cold season.

I filled the boat up 2 weeks ago with 89 octaine. This was the first fill up of the year so there was some gas from last year still in the tank about a quarter tank full. I ran the boat that day and it ran fine. The gas was 10% ethanol. On side note since I am not very engine savy - where is the fuel rail located on the engine?

[JDubya]

I would also check to be sure you are getting spark. If yes, then you know it's a fuel problem.

[SmoothWaterMan]

I didn't read Jerry's full page response, but it's a fuel issue. The give-away is that the rpm's increased just before it died. This is the engine leaning out (less fuel in the air/fuel mixture) and increasing RPM's.

First place I'd look would be the fuel pump fuses. There is a 3-fuse holder on the back of the engine, check to see if one is blown.

Second would be check to see if the pump runs. Turn the key on and listen by the pump to see if it is whining for 3-4 seconds to prime the system.

Third I'd make sure it was getting fuel. Change the fuel filter under the rear floor panel (or on top of the tank). It's a WIX 33299 filter.

If still nothing... I'd install a mechanical fuel pressure gauge on the rail and look for 50-60 psi on key up.

Peter.

edit. I re-read the original post and saw it started back up. Take a look at the electrical connector (If you have one) within 3 inches of the fuel pump. Wiggle it when running to make sure it doesn't lose connection. If it does, look at the female side and see if either of the pin holes are slightly melted or distorted.

And if your dash was working at the time, it's not a kill switch issue, so go with Jerry's idea. I'm in the cold north, never have those heat issues.

Edited June 15, 2009 by SmoothWaterMan

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Entirely possible that it any of the things Peter suggests above. I'll just suggest you look for the vapor lock issue before you start swapping out any hardware - can get real expensive real fast.

The fuel rail is on top of the engine, underneath the plastic cover. There is a rail on each side of the intake, looks like a 1" diameter tube that will have 4 fuel injectors attached to it. The schrader valve on my Monsoon was toward the front of the rail on the starboard (right) side. Not sure where it is on the LCR.

[Surfin247]

I have the LCR 320 on my Vride. I usually just put a wet towel on the fuel pump (silver canister with the fuel line coming from the gas tank attached to the bottom of it.) My fuel pump will get very hot (heatsoaked) if you run it for a while and then either idle around or turn it off for more than 15 mins.( time varies depending on outside temp.) Only takes 2-3 mins. to get the vapor lock issue corrected. Smartest thing to do after a long pull is run the exhaust fan and if you stop open the hatch. Down here in Fl. everyone opens their hatch to cool engine. The LCR 320 has the fuel pump attached to the side of the engine and not in the gas tank to keep it cool. When I remember to open the hatch I have yet to have any vapor lock issues.