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Headhunter 2317

Getting Air with a Tower

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Headhunter 2317

I will be making the transition from boarding from the pylon to boarding with a tower when the season starts. My bag of tricks is pretty much limited to some 180's in the air and on the surface. I can get "relatively" high and clear both wakes by 5 or 6 feet. Now that we are getting the tower, what can I expect in the way of lift and overall riding feel?

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Wkerat

Depending on technique, speed, and rope length, you may see no height difference, to a foot or so. I know when I made the change my rope was pulling me down. The big thing I noticed from a pylon to a tower is that I had more time to complete my tricks with the tower.

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aneal000

It will depend on the pylon you were using and the tower you are going to. Some towers will flex less than a pole. At most you will have slightly less side to side movement due to a stiffer attachment point. What does this mean in the real world?

It will make no difference at all in your riding.

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LS-One

slightly off thread but I noticed a huge difference driving more so than riding,

especially if you have a big guy back there because of 4 mounting points versus one the boat experiences less side to side pull. I didn't notice much more air time but I suck anyway.

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aneal000
slightly off thread but I noticed a huge difference driving more so than riding,

especially if you have a big guy back there because of 4 mounting points versus one the boat experiences less side to side pull.  I didn't notice much more air time but I suck anyway.

Physics 101. It makes no difference. What you notice is more than likely attributed to height difference in pole vs. tower.

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NorCaliBu

If anything, you should feel the pull of the rider more because of the added leverage of the rope being up higher, further away from the boats center of gravity.

I put the rope at the top of our extended pylon once while riding a "wide" ski, I wanted to jump, and I almost pulled the boat over on it's side on the pull.

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whiteVLX

My guess is the only thing you'll really notice is how much nicer it is for storing your boards on the side of the tower vs in the middle of the boat on the pylon.

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Headhunter 2317

Not to mention having the backseat available during ski runs.

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John I.
Headhunter 2317 Posted Today, 10:47 AM

  Not to mention having the backseat available during ski runs.

You plan on skiing from the tower?

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Headhunter 2317

Boarding I meant......Skiing wears me out anymore.

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LS-One
If anything, you should feel the pull of the rider more because of the added leverage of the rope being up higher, further away from the boats center of gravity.

I put the rope at the top of our extended pylon once while riding a "wide" ski, I wanted to jump, and I almost pulled the boat over on it's side on the pull.

Ok I'm confused first you say the rope being higher and added leverage should make the tower have more feeling of pull (disagreeing with my comments )

Then you turn around and agree with me with your wide ski and extended pylon story

Which is it ;)

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aneal000

Two different topics IMO. Generally speaking, if you move the tow point upwards (higher) the rider (skier or wakeboarder) has more leverage to pull on the boat side to side.

Second, a skier has more leverage than a wakeboarder (same rope attachment point) when cutting far outside the wake. Hence, most pylon/tower manufactures do not recommend skiing behind them. This explains why agressive skiers could easily tip over a boat with a tower/pylon and the mfgs. do not recommend using them.

Does that help or make sense?

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AirChair1

Although I feel I get a foot or two higher on our tower (with sky ski or wakeboard) the biggest difference for me is the amount of time in the air. On a pylon (or in my case an old IO with rear tow point) almost as soon as you are in the air the rope begins pulling you down. With the tower the rope is either below the tow point or less above it depending on how good you are to start with.

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Headhunter 2317

That extra float time is what I am seeking.

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AirChair1
That extra float time is what I am seeking.

Then I suspect you will be quite happy!!!

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JohnDoe
slightly off thread but I noticed a huge difference driving more so than riding,

especially if you have a big guy back there because of 4 mounting points versus one the boat experiences less side to side pull.  I didn't notice much more air time but I suck anyway.

Physics 101. It makes no difference. What you notice is more than likely attributed to height difference in pole vs. tower.

Thats not been my experience. A pole has much more of a significant tip because the pole extends below the axis of the pivot, thus causing more leverage. The tower mounts are all ABOVE the axis and therefore will tip less because the leverage is all above the axis and not above and below. think about it this way, if the tower mounts mounted below the water, the boat would tip a ton because of the leverage on the axis of the tipping boat. Also, think about a spark plug remover: you get tons more leverage the further you stick a screwdriver through it (stopping when its even), whereas if you barely put it through, your leverage would be less. In my experience, we had a '99 Rlx that I could almost dip the gunnel under. We put a tower on it and you could barely move it a foot.

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SacRiverRat

This doesn't make sense to me... but obviously you have some experiance w/ it Dontknow.gif

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martho
Not to mention having the backseat available during ski runs.

60' rope and people in the back seat can often lead to a bruised head. Even thought the tow point is higher(regardless of if you should or shouldnt tow from up there) someone is going to have a nice handle pop to remember Tomato.gif

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edwin

I think all you boarding studs missed the intent of the original post...I believe he's using the standard ski pylon on the SLXi, not an extended pylon. You're gonna get huge air dude...welcome to the dark side.

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JohnDoe
This doesn't make sense to me... but obviously you have some experiance w/ it  Dontknow.gif

Think about it like this: a boat is going stright with a skylon and the rider cuts to the right. The boat tips to the right. But, when we say the boat tips to the right, it is really pivoting on an axis because the bottom of the hull actually goes to the left. If the axis were below the hull, then everything would tip right, but thats not how it works, the axis actually runs through the boat. When the deck goes right the hull goes left, but there are many variables that affect the height of the axis. The point is not where the axis is, but how close that the torque is applied to the axis. Thus, when a skylon is used, it extends closer to the axis of the boat and will create more leverage. The tower mounts are relatively high on the axis and can't get the same leverage. So, if somehow there was a tower that attached to the pylon at the same height as a skylon, a boat woudl behave the same. But because the mounts are higher, leverage is less and you get less tip. The same principle applies when a pylon was attached at tower mount points: it would behave like a towered boat, and no longer like a skylon boat. It would seem that a boat with high freeboard would tip more, but it actually tips less. Hence the tipping difference between a Rlx (low mounts) vs. a Vride (higher mounts). They are on the same hull, but because the Rlx mounts are closer to the axis of the boat, it will tip it more.

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JohnDoe
I think all you boarding studs missed the intent of the original post...I believe he's using the standard ski pylon on the SLXi, not an extended pylon.  You're gonna get huge air dude...welcome to the dark side.

Wow, you're right. In that case, disregard all this physics crap and just enjoy the best pull possible

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WakeGirl

The last time that I boarded behind a boat with just a regular pylon, I had been boarding for a full season behind a boat with an extended pylon. I felt like I could get no air, like the boat was pulling me down. You'll be delighted at the change Headhunter.

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aneal000
slightly off thread but I noticed a huge difference driving more so than riding,

especially if you have a big guy back there because of 4 mounting points versus one the boat experiences less side to side pull.  I didn't notice much more air time but I suck anyway.

Physics 101. It makes no difference. What you notice is more than likely attributed to height difference in pole vs. tower.

Thats not been my experience. A pole has much more of a significant tip because the pole extends below the axis of the pivot, thus causing more leverage. The tower mounts are all ABOVE the axis and therefore will tip less because the leverage is all above the axis and not above and below. think about it this way, if the tower mounts mounted below the water, the boat would tip a ton because of the leverage on the axis of the tipping boat. Also, think about a spark plug remover: you get tons more leverage the further you stick a screwdriver through it (stopping when its even), whereas if you barely put it through, your leverage would be less. In my experience, we had a '99 Rlx that I could almost dip the gunnel under. We put a tower on it and you could barely move it a foot.

I've been away for a while and not had a chance to post...

Again, your example of teh spark plug remover clearly shows the extra length provides the extra leverage.

Your theory with the pivot points is (I'm trying to say this nicely) not correct.

Understand this, if the rope attachment point is physicall in the exact same spot - reference the boat (X, Y, Z) and it is rigidly attached then the forces applied to the boat will be the same. With that said you could use a pylon, a tower, a welded cable that extended 20' into the air, then looped around 15' to each side, then rand back down and attached to the bow - you would experience no difference in how the rider could affect the boat. Remember, two key points to my example: first, the rope attachment point is in the same place (x, y, z) and the medthod for attachment is rigid.

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SacRiverRat
slightly off thread but I noticed a huge difference driving more so than riding,

especially if you have a big guy back there because of 4 mounting points versus one the boat experiences less side to side pull.  I didn't notice much more air time but I suck anyway.

Physics 101. It makes no difference. What you notice is more than likely attributed to height difference in pole vs. tower.

Thats not been my experience. A pole has much more of a significant tip because the pole extends below the axis of the pivot, thus causing more leverage. The tower mounts are all ABOVE the axis and therefore will tip less because the leverage is all above the axis and not above and below. think about it this way, if the tower mounts mounted below the water, the boat would tip a ton because of the leverage on the axis of the tipping boat. Also, think about a spark plug remover: you get tons more leverage the further you stick a screwdriver through it (stopping when its even), whereas if you barely put it through, your leverage would be less. In my experience, we had a '99 Rlx that I could almost dip the gunnel under. We put a tower on it and you could barely move it a foot.

I've been away for a while and not had a chance to post...

Again, your example of teh spark plug remover clearly shows the extra length provides the extra leverage.

Your theory with the pivot points is (I'm trying to say this nicely) not correct.

Understand this, if the rope attachment point is physicall in the exact same spot - reference the boat (X, Y, Z) and it is rigidly attached then the forces applied to the boat will be the same. With that said you could use a pylon, a tower, a welded cable that extended 20' into the air, then looped around 15' to each side, then rand back down and attached to the bow - you would experience no difference in how the rider could affect the boat. Remember, two key points to my example: first, the rope attachment point is in the same place (x, y, z) and the medthod for attachment is rigid.

Agree - shouldn't make any difference, all are the same point of applied force relative to the boat... should transfer the energy in the same way

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ricnvic

Does the tower help a newbie wakeboarder like me get up on the board. Last year when trying to learn I didn't have a tower and the rope was attached to the transom where you would attach the tube or whatever and it felt like it was pulling me low across the water and it was hard to get up, I hope the tower helps pulling you up out of the water not across.

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