Needing help, fighting with dealer

[georgia_dawgs08]

I recently traded my old Malibu Sportster for a used Wakesetter VLX. I went to pick up the boat and the dealer that I bought it from said they were selling on consignment for a customer who had bought several Malibu's from them and that they didn't currently have the title and would send it to me when they got it. The problem is that I have to have the title to register the boat in my state (Georgia) being that I bought the boat in another state (Florida). There were also a couple of other things that needed to be fixed that they promised they would send me the parts for i.e. rear view mirror, interior speakers (they ruined those cleaning the boat with a pressure washer before I picked it up). On top of that I asked for a bimini top to be put on before I picked it up specifically asking that it be the one that mounts to the tower (Skylon Swoop), when I get there to pick it up they have a bimini mounted on the windshield frame. I've all but written off the other parts because I really don't think I can get the dealer to follow through on the items, but I absolutely have to get the boat registered. Any lawyers out there that might have some advice or can be of assistance, I would REALLY appreciate any help or advice from anyone who might have had a similar experience. Thanks.

[ilovetrains]

I am not a lawyer in either GA or FL, so I can only comment generally. Failure to issue title was one thing we investigated often when I worked at my state's Attorney's General office. For an item that must be titled, failure to issue title is a failure to sell. If a loan was taken out, the dealer failed to deliver the item, so the loan check is no good (secured by fraud.)

[georgia_dawgs08]

I am not a lawyer in either GA or FL, so I can only comment generally. Failure to issue title was one thing we investigated often when I worked at my state's Attorney's General office. For an item that must be titled, failure to issue title is a failure to sell. If a loan was taken out, the dealer failed to deliver the item, so the loan check is no good (secured by fraud.)

I understand that, but where exactly would that leave me with my boat that I am currently paying for every month

[RTS]

There are very strict laws in Florida regarding delivery of titles, registrations and tags. I would call the Florida DMV to get started (they deal with our titles in the state), or at least let the dealer know you are going to do so. The dealer will not want to hear from the DMV for not delivering documents to you in a timely fashion.

Has it been 30 days since the date on the bill of sale? That is the cutoff time where dealers will start getting in trouble if they don't do what they are supposed to.

In Florida, the 30 day time frame is important because we can use a bill of sale for 30 days in lieu of the title or registration to show law enforcement, should we need to. Is it the same in GA?

And are you positive you need the title to register the boat. In Florida, we only need the bill of sale, as most people never even see their boat title (it is sent to the finance company). You said you are making payments...wouldn't that title be being sent to whoever has the lien?

[georgia_dawgs08]

There are very strict laws in Florida regarding delivery of titles, registrations and tags. I would call the Florida DMV to get started (they deal with our titles in the state), or at least let the dealer know you are going to do so. The dealer will not want to hear from the DMV for not delivering documents to you in a timely fashion.

Has it been 30 days since the date on the bill of sale? That is the cutoff time where dealers will start getting in trouble if they don't do what they are supposed to.

In Florida, the 30 day time frame is important because we can use a bill of sale for 30 days in lieu of the title or registration to show law enforcement, should we need to. Is it the same in GA?

And are you positive you need the title to register the boat. In Florida, we only need the bill of sale, as most people never even see their boat title (it is sent to the finance company). You said you are making payments...wouldn't that title be being sent to whoever has the lien?

Its been about two months and the Georgia DNR said I either had to have the statement of origin or the title to the boat since it was previously registered in another state. The dealer told me at pickup that they should have the title in a week and they would mail it to me, its been two months and the temporary registration on my boat is no longer good. I have it financed through my bank at home not through the dealer and they don't need it for the loan, I just need it for registration purposes

[RTS]

It surprises me that the dealer said they would mail you the title. The bank where you have the boat financed is who should be receiving the title. I bet they already have. Have you asked them for a copy or gotten them involved in any way. I am sure they could help you in the event of a lost or missing title to a boat they have financed.

Where does the dealer say the title is right now?

[georgia_dawgs08]

It surprises me that the dealer said they would mail you the title. The bank where you have the boat financed is who should be receiving the title. I bet they already have. Have you asked them for a copy or gotten them involved in any way. I am sure they could help you in the event of a lost or missing title to a boat they have financed.

Where does the dealer say the title is right now?

They said they mailed it out almost three weeks ago, the dealer never had any communication with my bank, the bank doesn't even have the boat on the loan its more like a personal loan where I have a lot of history with the bank. The dealer said they had mailed the title directly to my home address, now I can't get the dealer to return my calls or get the salesman I dealed with to answer his cell phone.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Or call the people in the office who actually do this kind of work. I really doubt the salesman does it.

Better yet, call & tell them your so & so with the Georgia state DMV & have been getting the run around for some time & need to talk to a supervisor immediately.

Or even better, maybe a fellow buCrew member who lives in Florida would like to go rustle some feathers for you?

[RTS]

Wow...this could get real ugly. Since your bank is not taking a security position in the boat, they had no reason to search the title and see if there were any existing liens on the title (from the previous owner) and make sure they were paid. If there were existing liens, that bank is NOT going to release the title to anybody until their loan is paid in full. I really hope for your sake that the dealer you are working with used your money to pay off any existing loans before pocketing the rest.

If it is in fact a lost title, the FL DMV will also be able to help you with that. That assumes the dealer did in fact mail the title out to you and it was lost in the mail...but things very seldom get lost in the mail.

This may very well be a case where it is worth the money to go see an attorney, and have them start writing letters on your behalf to the dealership in Florida, and I'd do that right away.

Edit: and I just looked at the title to my boat, but didn't find any phone numbers that might be useful to you. But the title to your boat is going to be tracked by the Hull ID number, and hopefully someone in the FL DMV would be able to shed some light on the 'status' of your title.

Edited May 27, 2009 by rts

[Chia]

name the dealer, lets get him involved in this conversion.

[georgia_dawgs08]

Wow...this could get real ugly. Since your bank is not taking a security position in the boat, they had no reason to search the title and see if there were any existing liens on the title (from the previous owner) and make sure they were paid. If there were existing liens, that bank is NOT going to release the title to anybody until their loan is paid in full. I really hope for your sake that the dealer you are working with used your money to pay off any existing loans before pocketing the rest.

If it is in fact a lost title, the FL DMV will also be able to help you with that. That assumes the dealer did in fact mail the title out to you and it was lost in the mail...but things very seldom get lost in the mail.

This may very well be a case where it is worth the money to go see an attorney, and have them start writing letters on your behalf to the dealership in Florida, and I'd do that right away.

That is kind of what I was afraid of, my wife and I work hard and can pay all of our bills comfortably and enjoy going out on the boat on the weekends, and a vacation here and there, but its kinda hard to swallow having to hire a lawyer. Thats what was so aggravating about the other stuff that I mentioned like the bimini top and the mirror, I was honest with the dealer and came through on everything that I was asked for the trade, all I want is the same in return.

[RTS]

Best of luck to you, brother. I live in Orlando, so if the said dealer is anywhere close to me, and perhaps says to you 'the title is right here on my desk' or anything, let me know and I will go pick it up for you and mail it to you myself.

[WakingMeHappy]

1. Call the BBB in his city and file a complaint. Ask if there are other complaints.

2. Call the DMV in his city and file a complaint.

3. Call the FL state police and have the VIN number checked to see if it was a stolen boat.

4. Tell the dealer who you are calling and why.

5. Sue em!

[georgia_dawgs08]

Hey I appreciate all the help and advice guys (and gals), I'm going to try again tomorrow to get ahold of the dealer and get something out of them, if not we will take the next step. Thanks again, Jason.

[Soon2BV]

i would go visit an attorney and ask them to start with a letter to the dealer.

That won't cost much, and will probably generate some action.

Don't keep messing around. Without a title, or other document, you are driving a boat that you do not own.

I would say chances are good there is a bank out there somewhere with a lien on your boat.

[Chia]

the power of the internet is not available to you because you are reluctant to post the dealers name, so before getting into the expensive stuff, contact Malibu and let them know the problems you are having with one of their dealerships.

[wakbord11]

name the dealer, lets get him involved in this conversion.

I agree,,I see no problem naming the dealer in this situation. You may save another "crew member" future headaches as well.

[Chia]

name the dealer, lets get him involved in this conversion.

I agree,,I see no problem naming the dealer in this situation. You may save another "crew member" future headaches as well.

at the very least, send the dealer a link to this topic before naming him and let him know that is your next move. Let him know there are forums for every brand of boat he sells.

Edited May 27, 2009 by Cervelo

[georgia_dawgs08]

the power of the internet is not available to you because you are reluctant to post the dealers name, so before getting into the expensive stuff, contact Malibu and let them know the problems you are having with one of their dealerships.

This could be part of the problem, they said that Malibu dropped them as a dealer after thirteen years (a few months ago) because they had picked up Moomba also...so...kinda makes me wonder if that was really all of it...

[RTS]

Do you happen to have the FL numbers that were on the boat when it was in Florida. The Florida registration numbers. If you do, you can call this number 407-836-4145 and they will look up the title and tell whose name it is in and any leinholders. I just called them and acted like I was buying a boat from someone and wanted to see who the lein holders were and they said I just needed the FL numbers. I bet they could do it by the Hull ID numbers also.

Give that a try. Or give me the FL numbers and/or Hull ID and I'll call them for you. PM them if you like. I think you can also get a copy (not original, of course) of the title as it currently stands, for a fee.

[johnsvt]

I would be a little nervous.

Who was your check made out to? person or dealer?

One of the main reasons a person does not bring a title along is because he/she has to payoff the boat first.

[georgia_dawgs08]

Do you happen to have the FL numbers that were on the boat when it was in Florida. The Florida registration numbers. If you do, you can call this number 407-836-4145 and they will look up the title and tell whose name it is in and any leinholders. I just called them and acted like I was buying a boat from someone and wanted to see who the lein holders were and they said I just needed the FL numbers. I bet they could do it by the Hull ID numbers also.

Give that a try. Or give me the FL numbers and/or Hull ID and I'll call them for you. PM them if you like. I think you can also get a copy (not original, of course) of the title as it currently stands, for a fee.

That may really help, I can still see the shadow from the old registration numbers on the boat, I'm waiting for the mail to come and if its not in there today, I'll probably give them a call just to find out, thanks

[wakeup]

First, legal involvement should be your last resort. It is generally is a "lose-lose" situation. And make sure to speak with the owner of the dealership face-to-face. No phone calls and definitely no emails. Take someone with you to document it.

Second, "consignment". The dealer does not own the boat. So who was the actual legal owner of the boat at point of sale? You should have been given the name, address and phone numbers of the consignor. And there should be an agreement b/w the owner and the dealer which shows the boat is free and clear of liens, or if not, the lien holders should be listed and identified.

The dealer in most states is required to hold the title, or a photocopy of the face and back of the title during the consignment unless the title is being held by a lienholder. This is so you can inspect the title b4 purchase.

And Third, you should never buy anything without certifying you have a clear title. Sorry, I know that is 20/20 hindsight at this point.

If it were me, I would be asking the owner of the dealership when was the check cut to the boat owner and/or lien holder and the title status? I'm betting there is a lien against the boat and/or the dealership is dragging their feet on paying the consignor. The consignor might not even know the boat has sold.

I would be calling the owner of the boat directly if no satifaction from the dealership.

It's not uncommon for titles to take a few weeks, but two months is not acceptable.

And this is not legal advice, just opinion. Best of luck.

[RTS]

Try this. go to this website, enter the hull ID and your birthday, to act as if you are requesting a copy of the title. If you get an error, it is likely the boat is not titled in your name.

If it lets you continue, you may be in good shape (or at least better shape than you thought)

Florida DMV

I just did this and it gives me a list of vehicles I own, including the title numbers and my boat and trailer are there as well (trailers have no title in FL, but my trailers VIN is listed there). Since you have not transferred the title to a GA title, you may show up on this list. With this information, I can request a title be sent to me.

Edited May 27, 2009 by rts

[RTS]

Heres a better one. Just enter the Hull ID and it will tell you information about the boat (including any lein holders)

Motor vehicle check

EDIT: you may have to click on search another vehicle below...I think the link I posted takes you right to my boat

Edited May 27, 2009 by rts