Pictures of 2006 Malibu...

[YZThump]

on a different note and one that I can't speak intelligently about, I had a faily indepth conversation with a "wing" designer for race cars one night at the boat show last year.  The guy was amazed at how poorly designed the wedge was.  His comments were something along the lines of forward resistance should <0 with a properly designed wing only creating forces in the desired direction.  Where the wedge creates a lot of drag on the boat both downward and forward.  Anyway, I know it's an easy to mfg design and it does work, but it seems there is room for improvement.  Malibu if your reading this make a quick call to a racing/wing designer and verify what I'm saying, because this guy was saying there is a lot of room for improvement in effeciency.

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I'd have to say that's the biggest bunch of BS I've heard all week. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but you are never going to get zero forward resistance with a wing - not even close.

[Madmanacrossthewater]

Where the wedge creates a lot of drag on the boat both downward and forward.

Uh...drag=downforce+water=wake.

Not rocket science

[WOODSBU2]

the door is a poop shoot for the kids

[tgaugh]

You really have to watch what you say around here!

[mbwagoner]

on a different note and one that I can't speak intelligently about, I had a faily indepth conversation with a "wing" designer for race cars one night at the boat show last year.  The guy was amazed at how poorly designed the wedge was.  His comments were something along the lines of forward resistance should <0 with a properly designed wing only creating forces in the desired direction.  Where the wedge creates a lot of drag on the boat both downward and forward.  Anyway, I know it's an easy to mfg design and it does work, but it seems there is room for improvement.  Malibu if your reading this make a quick call to a racing/wing designer and verify what I'm saying, because this guy was saying there is a lot of room for improvement in effeciency.

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I'd have to say that's the biggest bunch of BS I've heard all week. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but you are never going to get zero forward resistance with a wing - not even close.

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what aneal's wing designer is saying is that the wedge could be more of a wing, just upside down. The wedge is just a flat blade, a wing is curved. a good wing will have less forward resistance and produce more "lift", in our case lift is down.

[edwin]

I read in the post that he was talking to a wing designer at the boat show...let's see, aneal is located in St. Louis...Boeing has a big operation here...my guess is that he met a Boeing guy who was looking at the Wedge and saw how it could be improved upon.

I should check my facts though, there's probably another side to the story

[Faceplant409]

on a different note and one that I can't speak intelligently about, I had a faily indepth conversation with a "wing" designer for race cars one night at the boat show last year.  The guy was amazed at how poorly designed the wedge was.  His comments were something along the lines of forward resistance should <0 with a properly designed wing only creating forces in the desired direction.  Where the wedge creates a lot of drag on the boat both downward and forward.  Anyway, I know it's an easy to mfg design and it does work, but it seems there is room for improvement.  Malibu if your reading this make a quick call to a racing/wing designer and verify what I'm saying, because this guy was saying there is a lot of room for improvement in effeciency.

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I'd have to say that's the biggest bunch of BS I've heard all week. I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement, but you are never going to get zero forward resistance with a wing - not even close.

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what aneal's wing designer is saying is that the wedge could be more of a wing, just upside down. The wedge is just a flat blade, a wing is curved. a good wing will have less forward resistance and produce more "lift", in our case lift is down.

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Stay with me for a few sentances......

Aneal's guy is a "race wing guy." (air resistance and downforce)

The wedge is a HYDROfoil. Used in water and creating downforce.

Do water and air act the same in this scenario?? (seriously doubt it)

I'm not an engineer but a practical thinker and I cannot see how you could get even close to zero foreward resistance.......

P

PS Tony, not trying to discredit your guy, but do air and water act the same??

[YZThump]

Do water and air act the same in this scenario?? (seriously doubt it)

I'm not an engineer but a practical thinker and I cannot see how you could get even close to zero foreward resistance.......

P

PS Tony, not trying to discredit your guy, but do air and water act the same??

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Even on a race car, the wings create SERIOUS drag. I remember reading a really interesting article in CAR & DRIVER magazine a while back where they got ahold of Robby Gordon's Indy car and put it through it's paces - 0-60 times, braking/lateral acceleration, top speed, etc. Really cool article, but I specifically remember the team's engineer telling the guys that the car would have gotten another +/- 60 mph top end (280 instead of 220 ) without the wings/ground effects on the car.

[tvano]

That thing sticks back so much farther than the regular Wedge, & being that it's not removeable, you would think that Malibu would have to revise the length rating on any boat so equipped.

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the pwedge on a response won't fit in my garage anymore.

only have about 2" clearance now.

[aneal000]

Boy you guys really took off with this topic. BTW, I am not a mechanical or aerospace engineer and don't pretend to be one. The "indepth conversation" I referred to was more the other guy talking and me going "uh huh, I see" over and over. He was getting very in depth and I was trying to absorb what he was saying. So now months/years later the converstation reappeared in my head after seeing an imporvement on the wedge. Just thought I'd share and see if someone out there could explain it better than I could.

oh and edwin - let it go man, you keep too much built up anger inside :D

[stewart]

One other thing about the Power Wedge, but on a different note. That thing sticks back so much farther than the regular Wedge, & being that it's not removeable, you would think that Malibu would have to revise the length rating on any boat so equipped.

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Doesn't look like it sticks out any further than it did before in the up position.

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True, but some peeps have to take off the swim platform and lower the wedge to get it in a garage etc.. With the housing of the power wedge, you are stuck with the length.....

BTW, too funny to see the dog in pic 1

Does anyone else think that blue and black boat looks a little dark? I know I would hate to have that in hot weather

[RiverRunner]

BTW, too funny to see the dog in pic 1

Does anyone else think that blue and black boat looks a little dark?  I know I would hate to have that in hot weather 

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No

I would like to see the blue in place of the black and yellow in place of the blue.

[tgaugh]

Yeah, that's my boy - here sure gets around!

[WakeGirl]

One other thing about the Power Wedge, but on a different note. That thing sticks back so much farther than the regular Wedge, & being that it's not removeable, you would think that Malibu would have to revise the length rating on any boat so equipped.

Isn't the given length with out the platform ? If so it doesn't matter about the wedge or is that when the easily removable part comes in to play?

Yeah, you're right about how the hull is measured. I should have made that comment differently (didn't want to lead us down the road of debating how boats should be measured & weighed, LOL), I just meant that Malibu needs to be careful about marketing boats that are equipped with the Power Wedge. The data that they give customers for boats with the manual wedge is close enough with the platform removed, but the power wedge is not easily removable (actually not removable at all). With how much farther back it is on the boat, it could really be dissappointing to get your new boat home & find out that it won't fit in the garage, even though the buyer was careful to go by the published numbers. I hope that the dealers are aware of this.

Let's start with the current wedge & how you get the most out of it. It should be a given that the wedge becomes most effective when you have weight up front in the boat. This drops the nose of the boat lower & increases the angle of the water flowing over the wedge foil, thus increasing down force on the wedge. By contrast, the higher that the nose rides (bow rise), the less effective the wedge becomes, putting less & less angle on the foil as it travels through the water.

So what does this mean with the power wedge? Take this situation as an example. A person has a lot of weight in the rear of the boat, but none up front. With the power wedge they can kick the angle on the foil back farther to get more out of it, make it work better with that weight setup. Many will say that you shouldn't run a boat weighted like that, but the argument that I make is that this is all about personal preference. Maybe he likes it like that & the power wedge just gives that person more choices & ability to dial it in that much farther.

Is it worth the upgrade? I have no idea. Will it work well? Again, I have no idea. But I definitely see this as a good thing & one that will continue to push the industry. I would be absolutely thrilled if they came out with an adjustable manual wedge.

As for Tony's comments, are you guys saying that the Wedge is perfect & cannot be improved? Come on, anything has room for improvement. I would think that they could design a wedge that is specific to each model if they wanted to, to get the most out of it. It comes down to numbers - it works well the way it is, & it isn't worth the money that it would cost them to go farther with it.

[The Garslayer]

Poor pooch doesn't know what has happened and that he is famous!

So, tgaugh if you like what you see...are we getting a new boat.

Yeah, that's my boy - here sure gets around!

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[tmcb]

One other thing about the Power Wedge, but on a different note. That thing sticks back so much farther than the regular Wedge, & being that it's not removeable, you would think that Malibu would have to revise the length rating on any boat so equipped.

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Isn't the given length with out the platform ? If so it doesn't matter about the wedge or is that when the easily removable part comes in to play?

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Yeah, you're right about how the hull is measured. I should have made that comment differently (didn't want to lead us down the road of debating how boats should be measured & weighed, LOL), I just meant that Malibu needs to be careful about marketing boats that are equipped with the Power Wedge. The data that they give customers for boats with the manual wedge is close enough with the platform removed, but the power wedge is not easily removable (actually not removable at all). With how much farther back it is on the boat, it could really be dissappointing to get your new boat home & find out that it won't fit in the garage, even though the buyer was careful to go by the published numbers. I hope that the dealers are aware of this.

Ya I kind of figured that is what you were getting at. That would sure make you a bit the first time you backed it into the garge and couldn't close the door. Wait haven't we had a few people have to mod their garge to make room?

[tvano]

if you back up fast enough it will fit, well, most of it will be in the garage.

[srud]

Poor pooch doesn't know what has happened and that he is famous! 

So, tgaugh if you like what you see...are we getting a new boat. 

Yeah, that's my boy - here sure gets around!

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Yeah tgaugh! Enough talk, let get movin' on this new pink boat. When the CFO asks questions like that, it's time to get moving. We're all itchin to help spend your cash.

[UWSkier]

I think we should have an Ispec contest to make the new poochie boat.

[tgaugh]

Tracie, I see your logic I understand your statement.

But I feel if you weight your boat properly the UP or DOWN positions are still the best, here's my thoughts.

Nobody, I mean nobody is going to know the ideal position while traveling at a given speed with all the crew and weight in the boat. Unless you drive around and test with the wedge in different positions...BUT as soon as you do that you throw a rider in and you change speed based on sport and your measurements are all of again, you just changed two critical variables: speed & weight. And correct me if I am wrong you cannot adjust the wedge with me back there at 70ft with the boat going 22.5 MPH. So you will never dial in the wedge to the perfect setting as you cannot adjust with the given condition. The idea of "perfect" will be an assumption of position. Which is as good as my assumption that the Wedge being down all the way is the best postion.

I have been corrected a million times so I look forward to being behind an 06 and having a request to the driver to drop it all the way down and have them place it at the "perfect" location which is best, or better @ 3/4.

Scott, the Wedge is no selling point, if we get the 06 next year it will have the good old standard one. Our summers to short to introduce risky new hardware that could require additional service due to the malfunctions of year 1 concept.

[srud]

Scott, the Wedge is no selling point, if we get the 06 next year it will have the good old standard one. Our summers to short to introduce risky new hardware that could require additional service due to the malfunctions of year 1 concept.

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Huh? I don't care which wedge you buy. In fact, I agree with you.

All I am saying is, let's get moving on this new boat! I already bought one this year and the CFO won't let me buy another one, so, it' your turn! Most people have to sell the idea to their wives, and here we see yours asking you if you are ready to buy a new boat! What's the holdup? Maybe you're bogarting the selection process all to yourself and not sharing with the buCrew family?

[tgaugh]

Ha!

Our warranty is not up until June, besides, I am getting ready to put my boat up soon. I wouldn't want to order now, we'd just store it all winter! If you haven't noticed it's cold here now, days getting shorter, mornings darkers, nights the sun's gone now...Using the heater in the evenings, breaking the shorty out in August..

You know what that means, it's over.

[tmcb]

if you back up fast enough it will fit, well, most of it will be in the garage.

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Maybe you would be lucky and have some of it in the living room

[srud]

You know what that means, it's over.

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It's not over until I say it's over! Have you walked outside today? It's 80+ degrees. It's not over! Not yet.

[The Garslayer]

Not a bad idea, how do we make that happen? When does the Ispec come out?

By the by, are we going to have to name our new boat poochie? I really do like "your mom" much better...

I think we should have an Ispec contest to make the new poochie boat. 

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Edited August 19, 2005 by hgaugh