Boat not turning?

[Sunsetter95]

On the small lake we visit in Mich, in the early morn - barefoot, in the morn - wakeboard and ski, noon - lunch , afternoon - tube, early eve - wakeboard and ski again, later -

[UWSkier]

I really want to push for tubing hours on our lake from 12-3, but I know if I do that, the fishermen will come back with "skiing hours." So now, we're figuring out a way to launch a "common sense campaign" to teach wallies on our lake how not to be wallies. It's a delicate subject, but we'll see how it goes...

[SmoothWaterMan]

I'm gonna toss this into the fray.

Tubes, and tubing, has tremendous drag.

It is my opinion, and I believe the opinion of most extended pylon mfg's, and likely some tower mfg's, that you should NOT tube from an extended pylon or tower. I also believe that most extended pylon's have warning decals stating this.

I'd like to reccomend to anyone that cares, to use the standard boat pylon when tubing. If something goes wrong while tubing off an high tow point, it's not going to be the boat's fault.

Peter.

[RiverRunner]

We used to have tubes in the boat traded them for a couple of surfboards no body has asked for a tube ride since, that and the fact that you would have a better chance of riding a bull for eight seconds at the rodeo than staying in a tube behind the boat while I am driving...

[RiverRunner]

Oh man I just realized that I have admitted that I have pulled a tube behind the boat, hope I don't get chastised as bad as Boomer…

[Chauncemaster]

Here's the thing about tubing:

There is nothing inherently wrong with tubing. If people want to get pulled in a tube behind my boat I will oblige. In fact if somebody wants to get pulled in ANYTHING behind my boat I am ok with it as long as it isn't going to kill or maim them and it will be safe and courteous for others on the lake.

The problem that most people have isn't with tubing itself but with the erratic, chop-making, and often dangerous driving that usually accompanies your average boater pulling a tuber. How many time have we all seen someone driving an I/O, standing up, full throttle, turned around looking at the tuber, doing a GIANT circle or often just unpredictable zig zags.

It is certainly possible to pull a tuber safely and Im sure most of the people on this site do but the majority of the people on the lake certainly do not. Driving in erratic patterns should only be done when you are SURE there aren't other boats in close proximity and even then you have to always be watching where you are going, not the tuber.

Also, many tubers will come into the coves where people are trying to waterski/ wakeboard instead of staying out in the chop which can be very annoying because a few doughnuts in the cover will mess up the water more than 10 boats skiing or boarding back and forth long the same line.

If everyone out on the water was always focused on safety and being courteous to other boaters everything would work out fine but often tubers are among the worst offenders in both categories (Jet Skiers beign a close second) so all tubers end up getting a bad name.

[LS-One]

Couldn't you just layoff the throttle instead of hitting things?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As for the tubing comments, WHATEVER. Maybe someday there will come a time when you have a family and find out there are more things to do with a boat than wakeboard. What a concept.

I guess I shouldn't have even mentioned TUBING, how HORRIBLE it is to HAVE FUN, geez.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, why should a bunch of people who like flat water have something against people who zig zag back and forth and tear up every inch of smooth water?

Honestly, do you think the people on this site don't have families? Facts are, tubers typically drive in patterns that produce maximum chop. In our area, they tend to be completely unaware that I don't want them running their boats over my wake when I have a rider or skier out. They are the rudest, most inconsiderate and most dangerous group on the water. (at least on KY waters)

So don't be surprised if you get some rubbing for talking about tubing on this site. I hate tubing - even though my four kids love it! Doesn't mean I don't love the kids, it just means I hate tubing. I mean really, really hate it! Without tubing I might be able to enjoy some skill-based water sports on the weekends. If I could make the laws, tubing would be the first thing to go. I'd make it a felony!

You know, I could probably live with tubers if they'd just leave the coves to the flat water lovers. Instead, they leave the chop of the big water to come back into the coves and turn doughnuts. I just don't get it! Ok, enough of the rant.

On a positive note, this was a very interesting thread. I've never heard of a chine locking up. At least I won't be thrown into a panic if it happens to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

nice rant !

[WakeGirl]

Here's the thing about tubing:

There is nothing inherently wrong with tubing.  If people want to get pulled in a tube behind my boat I will oblige.  In fact if somebody wants to get pulled in ANYTHING behind my boat I am ok with it as long as it isn't going to kill or maim them and it will be safe and courteous for others on the lake.

The problem that most people have isn't with tubing itself but with the erratic, chop-making, and often dangerous driving that usually accompanies your average boater pulling a tuber.  How many time have we all seen someone driving an I/O, standing up, full throttle, turned around looking at the tuber, doing a GIANT circle or often just unpredictable zig zags.

It is certainly possible to pull a tuber safely and Im sure most of the people on this site do but the majority of the people on the lake certainly do not.  Driving in erratic patterns should only be done when you are SURE there aren't other boats in close proximity and even then you have to always be watching where you are going, not the tuber.

Also, many tubers will come into the coves where people are trying to waterski/ wakeboard instead of staying out in the chop which can be very annoying because a few doughnuts in the cover will mess up the water more than 10 boats skiing or boarding back and forth long the same line.

If everyone out on the water was always focused on safety and being courteous to other boaters everything would work out fine but often tubers are among the worst offenders in both categories (Jet Skiers beign a close second) so all tubers end up getting a bad name.

Very well said. I was pulling slider the other night on the Sky Ski & turned to go around a tuber, they proceeded to turn right into me. I had to dodge them several times before they even turned around to look & see that I was there. The observers & spotters in your boat are there to watch whomever is behind the boat - if you're driving, then drive already, if you want to watch then get over & let someone else drive! The other part is that we belong to the local ski club that keeps a course on the local lake. You wouldn't believe how many times we have to yell & wave people off with their tubes when a skier is in the course. It's simply unbelievable.

With that said, I pull our kids on the tube & they love it. The spotter works with me to help watch for other boats. When you're doing figure 8's & big donuts sometimes it's hard to watch all directions, but we do our very best on that count.

[87Skier]

Wow! We went from chine lock all the way to tuber bashing. As far as tubers go, they are gonna be there during the day at all public reservoirs, especially on the weekends. Should you expect to get smooth water during those times? No. Can they be rude and inconsiderate drivers? Yes. Is there anything you can do about it? No. It's like rush hour traffic...if you drive in it you will be inconvenienced.

[obski]

The other part is that we belong to the local ski club that keeps a course on the local lake.  You wouldn't believe how many times we have to yell & wave people off with their tubes when a skier is in the course.  It's simply unbelievable.

With that said, I pull our kids on the tube & they love it.  The spotter works with me to help watch for other boats.  When you're doing figure 8's & big donuts sometimes it's hard to watch all directions, but we do our very best on that count.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought that the course with all of those bouy things on the Crooked River arm was for swinging tubes through. If you get the tube going just right and with some help from the tuber you can make the bouys.

Just kidding.

I did run the boat through the course once just for the fun of it. I had never run my boat through a course before. I set the PP on spd mode, but the speed seemed to fluctuate a bit - at least more than I would have expected or wanted.

We actually tried to pretty much confine the tubing to the area close to the dam and leave the rest of the water to everyone else.

[WakeGirl]

You'll have better luck above 25mph in rpm mode. It will be smoother for the skier.

[VinRLX]

Very well said.  I was pulling slider the other night on the Sky Ski & turned to go around a tuber, they proceeded to turn right into me.  I had to dodge them several times before they even turned around to look & see that I was there. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Two words: Air Horn.

[Spenser309]

me and my brother both tube however in total on any given day there may be 3 boats on the lake and with a total of 4 coves that are usually smooth its no problem. So we go to the smooth parts and do barrell roles. That is a skill. Or we will go with no board and just drag along the water at +/- 40 mph. Its fun till you hit some waves. We also drive the boat to make double ups while the other is on the jetski. We have fun. 55mph into a double up from a boat can equal some amazing air.

[Boomer]

Damn man, you sound just like the kind of guy who needs to try out the Sumo Tube, lol.

[bigmacholdthefries]

wow i wonder if there available in Australia

[Boomer]

Can you order from Overtons?

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/overtons/d...&item_num=11093

Beware, it's a super-high intensity ride. Very few people are capable of even doing it. But, if you get someone capable, you will split your side laughing so hard at them.

I keep trying to get someone to wear it on the wakeboard, and raley out flat, land on their stomach, and ride on away... heheh

[auto]

I can promise you one thing you will never see behind my boat, and that is a tube The shame and ridicule would be too much to bear.

I have tried to talk to Frank and Tim about making people sign a "no tube" clause when they purchase a BU, I just can't get it done. I have seen safe and courteous PWC riding (although rare), I have never seen courteous tube riding.

Edited August 16, 2005 by auto

[Buzz]

Too bad this has turned into a tubing bash rather than the oroginal post. I have this same thing happen often, and I am NOT pulling a tube. I would be interested in what others have to say, and what they have found to help.

While pulling wakeboarders on our course, there is a tight turn at the end. (BTW, I usually run full MLS, 2-300 lead in the walkthrough, 200 more in the rear). When I make a tight turn, I do get up on my side, and it seems like sometimes the prop spins (out of the water, I doubt it). The boat is definatly not out of control, or heading for the shore like some of the MC stories I have heard, just a bit slippery and scarry.

What I have done to help with this is when I make my turn, I let up a bit on the throttle, which slows the boat, then I throttle back up, which pushes the back of the boat down. This seems to pretty much prevent what seems like "chine lock".

I have moved weight around, but have not seen a big difference. I will do more experimentation.

Just curious what others have done.

[Chauncemaster]

I keep trying to get someone to wear it on the wakeboard, and raley out flat, land on their stomach, and ride on away... heheh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

now that sounds like a damn good idea. Except probably better done on a wakeskate rather than board.

[Boomer]

Yes, wakeskate, that's what I meant! That would be so funny...

Buzz, back to the original topic, yes, it's never caused me to lose control, but it's disconcerting. If you back off a little the boat settles, but once it's up on it's side you pretty much have very little steering.

A couple weeks back I was at a local wakeboard competition on a relatively small private lake (long and skinny). They were using an X2, which would take off and right at the ends of the lake make a hard powerturn to get a good run down the lake. I mean the guy was coming like 10-feet from shore at wakeboard speed, full hard turn. The boat was loaded with stock ballast, fat sacks, and about 8-10 people, so it was loaded down.

If the boat had chine-locked like I'm talking about, he'd have been on the beach no doubt. It never looked like it came close, always making awesome hard turns. I don't think I'll be doing power turns like this in my boat...

Like you, I want to get a little better handle on what causes it and how to avoid it.

I think in my case the big tube was worsening the situation, by pulling the boat over on it's side when I'd turn, but as you say I've had it happen without a tube before.

[Spenser309]

extreme tubing is the only way to tube. no jumps just high speed cornering and barrell rolls. You can actually use your back to plane out if you go without anything. you start on your face wait until you have enough pull go under water flip over come back up and then let go of one hand and no water will be spraying in your eyes or nothing.

[bigmacholdthefries]

Hey boomer thanks for the info i will email them and find out

[87Skier]

Boomer,

From what I understand chine lock is caused by a combination of things. The first is the torque of the engine and prop which is a left hand twist on all boats except Natiques. Way back in high school we all learned that theory "for every action there is an equal......." well you know. In this case the torque of the engine tries to push the starboard side of the boat into the water. Secondly the hull must have certain characteristics that allow it to happen. For example boats that pitch and roll more on their sides in a turn (similar to an I/O) will chine lock compared to a boat that stays completely level in a turn. Third, ski boats generaly tow skiers etc. from a pylon or tower located in the center of the boat. As the boat begins to turn to the right the pull from the skier actually helps pull the boat farther onto the starboard chine. Combine all this with some ballast or unevenly distributed weight in the boat and you've got chine lock.

Edited August 17, 2005 by 87Skier

[hemlock]

I have to admit, I pull a tube on our boat.

But we only go in "gear". Thats about as fast as we go.

Sit back and enjoy the sun.

Have a smoke and a pancake!!!

[srud]

Boomer - What side of your boat was "chine-locked"? Assume it would be the starboard side if everything 87skier said is correct. Not doubting anyone, just trying to confirm...

Has anyone ever chine-locked the port side?

I really want to understand this for when it happens to me.