Response LXI Redesign

[skisix@38]

To Tracie's comment: I think that they have the capacity for building the $$$ generating wake boats and the fewer hard core slalom boats. What they have been doing is to get several models into a very small market- the RLX, RLXi and now the FXi, plus the XTi and probably even more models that I don't know about. That's too many boats that all really compete with each other, minus the XTi perhaps. The point is that they have a bunch of boats in the 19-21 foot range and they could perhaps improve the bottom line by reducing the number of models in that range and seel as many as they do now only with fewer models to spread the cost out on. They don't need to compete with themselves when the other guys are providing tough competition already.

So now that Bu has the FXi, they could put the RLXi on a diet and have it become the hardcore slalom boat. There are plenty of skiers out there that are die hard Malibu fans, even with the newer larger boat. They would all rather have a smaller boat though- just no need for that big of a boat for the small lakes. Leave the more diverse use boat duty to the FXi, if it's sooooo good.

I owned a '94 MC for 9 years before getting the RLXi, I know all ther eis to know about that boat and I gotta say that for real shortline there's nothing that beats the RLXi, arguably there are boats that are just as good, but nothing better. That said, for a starter and for skiers up to 32 off, the '94 is as much boat as a slalomer needs.

Ya, but I'm not holding my breath for that. I'm mentally prepared for this '09 to be my last Malibu. I just hope that the reduced hours and reduced manning at the factory hasn't reduced the morale and quality of the boats.

Funny side note: The new FXi is exactly the same length, width, height and weight as the 20i. That's a big boat.

I've been thinking along those lines as well, it's a perfect setup with the RFXi in place. But I don't think it will happen. I said that they've boxed themselves in & what I mean by that is that a boat manufacturer rarely makes a boat smaller as it evolves, particularly when it's gotten larger over time. I also wonder at the prices, which is the second part to this whole thing. One of the big things that has been driving prices up (aside from demand & other factors) is the sheer amount of stuff that comes on/in these boats. A ski boat going on a diet won't be nearly enough to bring prices down to satiate & bring past customers back into the fold. And I don't see Malibu cutting back on that, although truthfully I think that there could have been ways of going about it without giving the impression of lower quality.

I won't contest your knowledge of all things Malibu Tracie... I know slalom and I know tournament skiing and that's all I want to know. The economy shake up though and is going to change things though. I don't think that Bu/MC/CC are going to sell many overweight ski boats for $45-50K anymore. They have exceeded the price limit and the cash has dried up from the buyers. The big three can decide to de-feature and trim their boats in this segment or they can let the bidness go to someone else. I think there is still a market for a great slalom boat to go on a private lake and serve as a tractor for pulling slalom and then pull some other water toys too. If Bu/MC/CC won't make that boat, someone will and that's core money that these guys built their reps on. I'm not saying that bu should go back to an Echelon size boat with no featrues on it but I think the biggest boat should be the 03-06 RLXi and the price limit is going to be $30-35K for this segment. I hope Bu decides to play, if they don't decide to play then they will loose my money because I'm not buying anything bigger then what I have now and I surely don't see the need for all the computer screens and stuff they are putting in these boats to drive up cost.

On a side note- I do hope marketing folks from Malibu read this thread and take heed of what their current owners think- we are their base and the easiest sale to make is to an existing customer and the best and leaast expensive advertising there is is from current owners!

Edited December 28, 2008 by skisix@38

[88Skier]

I emailed Malibu about 2005 and told them it appeared to me that they were dropping their interest in their core market. I got a reply stating they would never do that, but look what's happened since then. As far as price goes, my Sporster cost about $24k in 2003. In 2006 the same boat was $30k, a 25% increase in 3 years. Talk about making your product obsolete. Hard to imagine they would even attempt to bring a tourney boat down into the $30-35 range now. They'll go where the money is.

Edited December 28, 2008 by 88Skier

[SmoothWaterMan]

Quick thoughts reading this -

1) Tracie is right about the sales numbers. Selling 10-15 boats a year won't sustain production.

2) Malibu has a "hard core" slalom boat, it's called a Response. Argueably the best "pure" skiboat value on the market, for 3-event and barefoot use. It costs the same to build as the Sportster did, and it's one heck of a boat.

3) Go buy a well equipped pickup or SUV, and compare that to 5/10/15 years ago. Raw materials, labor, everything has gone up and driven product costs up with it. We'll remember them, but the days of building a 20k Trantrum or Sportster are gone. (At least one that anyone would buy) Value is in the eye of the beholder. You can't build a paper thin 17-19' skiboat without quality, reliability, a lifespan and warranty in today's market. The consumer isn't ready to give up those attributes.

Peter

Edit - don't confuse the Response, RLXi or RFXi....these are totally different boats. When I talk about a Response, it's the closed bow boat of that name. I would drop the RLX, and just build the Response and RLXi, but obviously the labor to change a Response to a RLX is too easy to not offer.

Edited December 28, 2008 by SmoothWaterMan

[SmoothWaterMan]

oh - one other thing.....where is this "size difference" people refer to between the 03-06 RLXi and the 07-up RLXi?

[WakeGirl]

I won't contest your knowledge of all things Malibu Tracie... I know slalom and I know tournament skiing and that's all I want to know. The economy shake up though and is going to change things though. I don't think that Bu/MC/CC are going to sell many overweight ski boats for $45-50K anymore. They have exceeded the price limit and the cash has dried up from the buyers. The big three can decide to de-feature and trim their boats in this segment or they can let the bidness go to someone else. I think there is still a market for a great slalom boat to go on a private lake and serve as a tractor for pulling slalom and then pull some other water toys too. If Bu/MC/CC won't make that boat, someone will and that's core money that these guys built their reps on. I'm not saying that bu should go back to an Echelon size boat with no featrues on it but I think the biggest boat should be the 03-06 RLXi and the price limit is going to be $30-35K for this segment. I hope Bu decides to play, if they don't decide to play then they will loose my money because I'm not buying anything bigger then what I have now and I surely don't see the need for all the computer screens and stuff they are putting in these boats to drive up cost.

On a side note- I do hope marketing folks from Malibu read this thread and take heed of what their current owners think- we are their base and the easiest sale to make is to an existing customer and the best and leaast expensive advertising there is is from current owners!

I think that you're right, & I don't think that anything that you've stated there is unreasonable. Shooting for the low to mid $30k's shouldn't be unreachable, although I think that Pete's right about the days of the mid-$20k's entry level boat. As I said, the big question is how Malibu decides to respond.

oh - one other thing.....where is this "size difference" people refer to between the 03-06 RLXi and the 07-up RLXi?

I think it's the perception. The new boat may not technically be any bigger in length or beam, but it definitely sits higher on the water & the overall impression is that it's a bigger boat. Whether it's right or wrong, perception plays a big part in this & Malibu needs to realize that in this market (that will exist for the next few years, mind you) they need to make their boats as easy for guys like you to sell to their target audience as possible. That target audience, as we've discussed here, is changing rapidly & it's not a good indication of where Malibu currently stands on this point when you have to come online to correct a common perception that's floating out there.

Just to respond to your second point about the Response Pete, I think that the thing that people like Skisix & the other hardcore slalom & footing peeps feel is that while yes, they haven't been abandoned altogether, there hasn't been any innovation on that front in a long time. When was the last time that the Response was updated? I'm talking about really updated, with a new hull design. Wasn't it 1998? I guess it could be argued that "it aint broke, so don't fix it 'til it is", but if we followed that logic then we would never have had the V25 hull on the VLX/23LSV which was a big improvement over the SV23, nor would we have had the current hull which is even better. I guess what I'm trying to say is that with the evolution of the RLXI, all of the work & innovation that's gone into it, & the target audience that they've gone after with that boat (which by & large was more of a crossover/recreational market), they've somewhat alienated their core peeps. With the RFXi sitting there now as the boat that should be targeted at that crossover/recreational market, they've got a golden opportunity to slim down the RLXI & give that hardcore crowd the boat that they want. If they did it right (& if any company could, I'm confident that Malibu could), they could eliminate 1 more model & just have the 1 hardcore slalom rig.

So with that said & in a possibly futile attempt to bring the thread fully back on topic, what would most of you like to see in the next evolution of the RLXi? List it out. As we've seen in the past, Malibu pays attention to us & sometimes gives us what we want. All we have to do is let them know.

[Woodski]

Excellent post Tracie.

My interests would be the following:

- non reflective dash (this is really a nuisance on the new 'bu's for me)

- weight savings efforts to reduce wake (no matter how good, less weight will make it better)

- elimination of stainless vents that can snag on clothing particularly at back of boat

- choice of speed control (PP / ZO / Malibu version)

- smaller side window (driver ease flipping the rope back over to skier at end of course)

- better barefoot wake (pre 2008 wake)

- less bling or make it optional (to reduce cost or paying for something not wanted)

- flat dash / glovebox on observers side similar to older designs with cupholders

- for me, but I am sure few others, no trunk but easy step over to platform (ie: Infinity/Svara)

- binding lube holder at back of boat (platform acces)

To just add some more food for thought, your point on hull innovations for me really goes back to the introduction of the SV23 hull for the slalom boat, the two updates have been evolutionary changes in the hull. Although, the RLXi on a bigger version of the SV23 hull (longer and wider) can certainly be called a significant evolution or a size revolution for an equally good wake.

[WakeGirl]

I actually think that there's a potential to combine the RLX & RLXI into 1 model. Make it a 20' boat, that way it accommodates those lakes with the 20' rule. Maybe a 93" beam, but IMO it shouldn't be any wider than that. Make it optional as either a closed bow or open bow with a walk-through (no step-over), like the old Echelons were. That way you can build 2 boats on 1 mold, obviously with different top deck molds. Think of little space-saving options like the ski storage under the gunnels that were available for the old Sporty. Anything that will help to utilize more of the space in the boat that is many times wasted, but that is precious in a smaller boat.

As an incentive for getting past buyers into this small, sexy new model, I would suggest that it be a non-HDS direct drive.

[ed obermeier]

Peter wrote "Malibu has a "hard core" slalom boat, it's called a Response. Argueably the best "pure" skiboat value on the market, for 3-event and barefoot use. It costs the same to build as the Sportster did, and it's one heck of a boat."

Only problem is they say they won't build it any more. According to what I've been told after June '09 they refuse to build any more closed bow Responses. And this is even using the older version non-updated hull. Personally I'd like to see them at least continue to offer it as "special order" boat. I'm sure they want to get away from that because it screws up the production schedule to throw building a very low volumn non-current hull into the mix and I can understand that. I agree, one of the best hard core slalom boats out there - I ski regularly behind a friends 2000 Response and I'm looking forward to the day I get to ski behind GT's new one to see what an '04 Response with updated engine and electronics looks & feels like. Continuing to offer it should at least quiet the "you need to build a hard core slalom boat for small lakes" crowd. Here it is, why haven't you ordered one yet? Might be a pain in Malibu's a$$, but in the name of customer service...

WakeGirl wrote "...I think that the thing that people like Skisix & the other hardcore slalom & footing peeps feel is that while yes, they haven't been abandoned altogether, there hasn't been any innovation on that front in a long time. When was the last time that the Response was updated? I'm talking about really updated, with a new hull design. Wasn't it 1998? I guess it could be argued that "it aint broke, so don't fix it 'til it is"..."

Innovation. How much better a wake is it possible to squeeze out of a 20 - 21 foot ski boat? IMO any of the top 6 - 8 slalom boats available (including several non-Big 3 models) is a pretty damn good pull. Change only for the sake of change serves no useful purpose. Go back to the early/mid 90's for MC, late 90's for CC, mid/late 90's for Malibu and those wakes compared to now IMHO are of comparable quality to todays boats. That's my perception; however I know quite a few skiers who share that perception.

I guess I fall into the "If it ain't broke..." catagory. An '07 - 08 RLXI would have worked just fine for me, I prefer the older '03 - 06 hull so that's why I bought one, my own personal preference. To me this boat IS the right size - I wouldn't want it much bigger (the RFXI is too big for my uses and taste). A smaller 20' version to me would be the same thing as an MC 197, the open bow is basically useless cause 2 adults can't really lounge in it. The RLXI bow is big enough to lounge two reasonably comfortably, especially with the added filler cushion. That's one of the reasons it took me 8 years to part with my 2000 Supra Legacy, it had a wake similar to a 197 plus the largest most comfortable bow (Supra referred to it as a "playpen bow") you'll ever see in a hard core slalom boat (serious spray issues at 35 off and in though). Serious loungability, I could and did nap in the thing, seriously. So personally I say leave the RLXI as is and offer the closed bow Response as an option, do away with the RLX. Simple, cuts the number of models having to be built/stocked as WakeGirl suggested, and requires no $$$ outlay on Malibu's part at all. Keep them (realistically) in the under $40K range and I don't think there would be too much bitching. To me the RLXI is everything I originally bought that Supra for with a better wake for slalom skiing. Leave it as is, what improvements could be made?? Change only for the sake of change serves no useful purpose.

Ed

[skisix@38]

oh - one other thing.....where is this "size difference" people refer to between the 03-06 RLXi and the 07-up RLXi?

Peter, thanks for chiming in here, good to have a dealers opinion on what is selling. Now, Dude, what do you mean by "where is the sice difference"? HAve you seen both those boat together side by side? The new boat is a way bigger boat, you may be able to put it in side the same perimeter but that's not the whole story. At the stern of my 03 RLXi there is one hand length between the bottom of the boat and where the hull slants out. The same measurement on the new boat is two hands. I can push my boat away from the dock while seated, no way in h e double toothpicks I can do that in the new boat.

Now, for price... The big three have opened up a market for someone to come in an sell an awesome 3 event boat that doesn't cost $45K. I agree that I'm not going to buy another good boat that's new for $20K and I didn't contend that originally. My contention is that it doesn't take $45K to build a great slalom boat, and that the number of peeps willing to lay down $45K for a slalom boat is very few. There are still a lot of peeps I know that would willingly lay out $30-35K yearly for a good slalom boat, they won't spend $45K though. No doubt there are some people out there that will buy the $55-80K boat and they have to make good money on those boats but, they could still make good money by building a $30K slalom boat that's 20' long and has the monsoon engine and speed control and is comfy to sit in and to hold some buddies... Just saying....

[WakeGirl]

....

Only problem is they say they won't build it any more. According to what I've been told after June '09 they refuse to build any more closed bow Responses. And this is even using the older version non-updated hull.

....

I think that something isn't right with your information. Do you know how they build a Response, whether it's an open or closed bow? They start by building a closed bow & then if it's an LX they literally cut that section of fiberglass out of the bow. Now, maybe they will discontinue the Response completely, I don't know. But there isn't much of a difference in building a CB or an LX. A CB in some ways is less work since they don't have the vinyl & other finishing touches in the bow, it's just carpet in the storage area. I can't seem them going with that kind of policy.

As far as innovation, my dad once told me about reading an article years ago that talked about the speed of the latest, greatest computers at the time. It stated that the 386 was as fast as we would ever need, that there was no need to continue to try & develop faster technology. (I'd be really curious to know where that guy is now.) To say that something can't be measurably improved upon & therefore it shouldn't even be attempted....I have to question that. They said the same thing about the VLX....both times.

Now, for price... The big three have opened up a market for someone to come in an sell an awesome 3 event boat that doesn't cost $45K. I agree that I'm not going to buy another good boat that's new for $20K and I didn't contend that originally. My contention is that it doesn't take $45K to build a great slalom boat, and that the number of peeps willing to lay down $45K for a slalom boat is very few. There are still a lot of peeps I know that would willingly lay out $30-35K yearly for a good slalom boat, they won't spend $45K though. No doubt there are some people out there that will buy the $55-80K boat and they have to make good money on those boats but, they could still make good money by building a $30K slalom boat that's 20' long and has the monsoon engine and speed control and is comfy to sit in and to hold some buddies... Just saying....

I would also think that keeping the price within that mid-30's mark will help keep the promo program healthy & viable.

[WakeGirl]

If the mold is being taken out of service completely, then I think that we can take that to mean that the Response (both the LX & CB) will be gone in the 2010 model year. If you want to verify that at the factory GT, that would be great.

[ed obermeier]

....

Only problem is they say they won't build it any more. According to what I've been told after June '09 they refuse to build any more closed bow Responses. And this is even using the older version non-updated hull.

....

I think that something isn't right with your information... I can't see them going with that kind of policy.

...As far as innovation, my dad once told me about reading an article years ago that talked about the speed of the latest, greatest computers at the time. It stated that the 386 was as fast as we would ever need, that there was no need to continue to try & develop faster technology. (I'd be really curious to know where that guy is now.) To say that something can't be measurably improved upon & therefore it shouldn't even be attempted....I have to question that. They said the same thing about the VLX....both times.

First paragraph. GT chime in here. Since he just ordered a brand new closed bow Response I'll defer to him to discuss the information he was given when he was trying to get Malibu to build him one. Edit: while writing he beat me to the punch. You guys are quick here...

Second paragraph. Your point is well made and well taken WakeGirl (I respectfully don't know you well enough to call you by name). I'm not saying that it isn't possible. The context of the discussion was centered around what Malibu could reasonably do to keep the hardcore slalom/barefoot crowd happy ("happy" being a relative term) without spending the money to develop a new hull. I'm all for them building a next gen RLXI that improves the wake even more, I welcome it. Absolutely I think it's a possibility, although how much better it could be we could discuss ad naseum without resolution (till they build it anyway). But they're not going to do it without spending some serious R & D bucks and I agree with you that in this economy it wouldn't make a lot of business sense to do that. So when I made that statement I was just trying to operate within the context of the earlier discussion.

Ed

Edited December 29, 2008 by ed obermeier

[WakeGirl]

I see your point (& please call me Tracie!). I think that it's entirely possible though that they could end up saving money over the long haul by coming up with a boat that would allow them to do away with both the RLX & RLXi. Putting all of that into 1 hull just seems like it would make more sense. The idea though is that they have to be able to bring the hard core crowd back into the fold & give them a reason to buy new.

[WakeGirl]

Whoa, back up. I wasn't talking about the RLXi, I was talking about the Response CB/LX. That boat goes back to '98.

[ed obermeier]

I see your point (& please call me Tracie!). I think that it's entirely possible though that they could end up saving money over the long haul by coming up with a boat that would allow them to do away with both the RLX & RLXi. Putting all of that into 1 hull just seems like it would make more sense. The idea though is that they have to be able to bring the hard core crowd back into the fold & give them a reason to buy new.

Thank you Tracie, in the future I will adress you by name. Even though I'm relativly new to the forum I've read it for a lot of years now, so at least on this end I feel like a member.

Closed bow boats are pretty much a small and shrinking nitch market so their desire to do away with building them makes sense to me, especially considering what a great slalom boat the RLXI is (really no fall off from the closed bow IMO). Personally I think GT was nuts for selling me his RLXI and I have told him as much to his face (and he didn't even beat the crap out of me!). He will however have a collectors item that may well hold a higher resale value since it may well be the last one Malibu ever builds, especially as well as he takes care of his boats. Maybe he's not so nuts after all, eh?

Ed

[WakeGirl]

Not sure if that's true or not, but the Echelon LX was a true walk-through on a 90" beam.

[edwin]

I gave my 05 RLXi the edwin treatment a few weeks ago before putting it away for the winter. After three full seasons and 250 hours, it's as clean as it was the day I picked it up. It'd be really, really hard for me to find a better boat for my needs.

That being said, my kids are getting older and they enjoy skiing, wakeboarding, and riding the kneeboard. There's going to come a day when they want to either bring along a friend or stay behind. That's going to be the point in time when the RFXi becomes the boat for me...if I can afford it.

[Woodski]

Yes, the 93-96 Echelon was a true walk through on the SV 23 hull and it is a 90" beam. The last couple of years you could special order one it was the same as the Response, a walk over.

Standing still on R&D is the death to any company. No matter how good, or close to perfect one thinks something is, there is always the ability to improve. I am constantly amazed at how much things can be improved with just time and effort, let alone technological improvements. So, with that, if Malibu were to keep the Response LX/CB (using Tracie's nomenclature), it would only make sense to keep it with the hull improvements already in play.

[JohnDoe]

IMHO, Malibu has done exactly what their ski boat customers have wanted over the last decade. First they tweaked the SV23 to provide a wake that is world class. Then they created a true world class open bow slalom boat, then, in repsonse to criticism that it was too easy to dump the bow, improved the hull, eradicated the dumping problem, and still managed to create a world class pull. When Malibu creates a new mold, those costs are sunk, so when new models are created, it still makes sense to offer the old designs. If Malibu sees a market, it will make a boat to fit it, and if there's a market for teh old design, will keep it too. The problem isn't Malibu's if only a handful of people want a true CB Response. If there is still an inboard barefoot market that exists (many have gone the outboard, ski-pro, or Sanger route), then it should make a CB response with the non-diamond SV23, which I would assume is sitting on a shelf in Merced. Because Malibu hasn't done this, I can only assume they feel there is no market for that boat.

I guess my point is, when everyone with complaints about the current line-up went to buy a boat, Malibu offerred a boat for your needs, and still do unless you're a barefooter. Even if you bought another brand, Malibu offerred a model for your needs, and I am confident they will continue to do so.

[JohnDoe]

So, with that, if Malibu were to keep the Response LX/CB (using Tracie's nomenclature), it would only make sense to keep it with the hull improvements already in play.

The hull improvements to the rlxi were specific to the old rlxi. There is no reason to apply those "hull improvments on the R or RLX, as they don't require the higher freeboard. Not to mention the length is different.

[JohnDoe]

Whoa, back up. I wasn't talking about the RLXi, I was talking about the Response CB/LX. That boat goes back to '98.

Exactly.

I had heard, perhaps anecdotally, that one of the things that drove the Response's length and beam increase (20' to 20'6" and 90" to 93.5") in the creation of the RLXi was that it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass required to create a true walk though bowrider.

Interesting.....

Just a point of observation, R, RLX, RLxi all use a 2 piece windshield design with middle openable insert. Adding some width obviously helps with usable room in the bow but to say that "it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass" seems odd.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Whoa, back up. I wasn't talking about the RLXi, I was talking about the Response CB/LX. That boat goes back to '98.

Exactly.

I had heard, perhaps anecdotally, that one of the things that drove the Response's length and beam increase (20' to 20'6" and 90" to 93.5") in the creation of the RLXi was that it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass required to create a true walk though bowrider.

Interesting.....

Just a point of observation, R, RLX, RLxi all use a 2 piece windshield design with middle openable insert. Adding some width obviously helps with usable room in the bow but to say that "it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass" seems odd.

I believe GT was referring to the extra fiberglass needed to make the wider/longer hull.

[JohnDoe]

Whoa, back up. I wasn't talking about the RLXi, I was talking about the Response CB/LX. That boat goes back to '98.

Exactly.

I had heard, perhaps anecdotally, that one of the things that drove the Response's length and beam increase (20' to 20'6" and 90" to 93.5") in the creation of the RLXi was that it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass required to create a true walk though bowrider.

Interesting.....

Just a point of observation, R, RLX, RLxi all use a 2 piece windshield design with middle openable insert. Adding some width obviously helps with usable room in the bow but to say that "it needed that additional wetted surface area to support the extra glass" seems odd.

I believe GT was referring to the extra fiberglass needed to make the wider/longer hull.

I think you're right

[skisix@38]

IMHO, Malibu has done exactly what their ski boat customers have wanted over the last decade. First they tweaked the SV23 to provide a wake that is world class. Then they created a true world class open bow slalom boat, then, in repsonse to criticism that it was too easy to dump the bow, improved the hull, eradicated the dumping problem, and still managed to create a world class pull. When Malibu creates a new mold, those costs are sunk, so when new models are created, it still makes sense to offer the old designs. If Malibu sees a market, it will make a boat to fit it, and if there's a market for teh old design, will keep it too. The problem isn't Malibu's if only a handful of people want a true CB Response. If there is still an inboard barefoot market that exists (many have gone the outboard, ski-pro, or Sanger route), then it should make a CB response with the non-diamond SV23, which I would assume is sitting on a shelf in Merced. Because Malibu hasn't done this, I can only assume they feel there is no market for that boat.

I guess my point is, when everyone with complaints about the current line-up went to buy a boat, Malibu offerred a boat for your needs, and still do unless you're a barefooter. Even if you bought another brand, Malibu offerred a model for your needs, and I am confident they will continue to do so.

I think that this is exactly right.... They started to build the bigger water boats and the boats that held more peeps and provided a wake because peeps were buying their ski boats and trying to apply them in the above places and assesed a value to a boat that had more stuff for them to apply to bigger water and wake sports.... Good on Bu for listening!!!! Now, they have all the big water bows and big water riding boats to do wake sports and tubing and hold 15 peeps in their line up. So, I wish they would come full circle and make a ski boat that does all the things my RLXi does and with the newer speed control and can be purchased for max $35K out the door, that's not 21' long and 98" wide and not two arm lengths above the water

My last observation is that if the RLX was truly the hard core slalom boat offering for Malibu, why haven't I skied behind one in a tournament since 2003? I know someone is going to respond that the RLxi is the boat that Malibu wanted the promo guys to buy and with the bigger OB and more room the promo guys would have an easier time of re-selling it.... I get that. CC tried to do that with the 206 back in 2003 too and it didn't work, everyone complained about the 206 not being as good a ski boat as the 196 and so the very next year there weren't any pulling tournaments. In stark contrast to that the reports on the dock from the RLXi, that I experienced, were on the lines of "Yes, I go the Malibu to pull me this round". That held until 2007, when no one liked the boat because it was "too big", "too slow" and "doggy out of the hole". And skiers went back to being excited about the 196 again.

[Woodski]

Looks like the difference is that Malibu came up with a larger boat that still had an excellent wake, thus a win-win situation for all. Certainly, the hard core market is very small, a smaller boat drives a compromise in interior room so if you can end up with a great wake in a larger package, a win. Kind of mirrors the rest of what we do, just look at how cars and our homes have grown over time (no comment on the human anatomy!).

I think the emissions issue will slow any growth in boat size or weight until that gets sorted and the power increases return. The power increase in the small block V8 is certainly there, it will just be a matter of optimizing the emissions side to minimize power loss.

My point on hull improvements, things learned on one hull can be applied to see if they work on another hull. Examples of improvements to Malibu hulls include the changes in chines, strakes and hook to fine tune the performance of a specific hull.