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Response LXI Redesign


Hydrofoil

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  • WakeGirl

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The 2010 model, called the Response LXh, will debut in July/August. It will feature an hydrofoil (thus the 'h' in LXh) trio with one extending almost the enitre beam, slightly aft of amidship, and two smaller ones on either side of the hull just under the windshield base. This will take the wake out of any slalom skiing discussion, because at ski speed the boat will rise enough that the hull barely grazes the water. Tracking will be addressed by means of the two forward foils being connected to the steering system. . .

The new design requires fly-by-wire steering, in order that the two forward foils act in conjunction with the rudder. This system will take 'bat turn' to the next level. With the correct combination of steering and throttle, it will be possible to spin the boat 360° while maintaining almost the same heading. Think tea cup ride and you're on the right track.

The HDS will, unfortunately, not be eliminated but actually multiply. This is again due to the new steering system and mounting requirements of the hydrofoils.

The good news, however, is that weight and size of the hull is no longer a paramount factor. The new RLXh will be 22' 8" long with a beam of 95". Top speed with the foils engaged is estimated to be 68-70 MPH. Also, the Wedge is gone for the RLXh because the under-hull hydrofoils can be inverted effecting a similar result to adding 2150 lbs. of ballast.

Hmmm, let's see. Did I say the 'h' was for hydrofoil? Maybe it should be for ha, ha instead.

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As a minimum, I was hoping that we would see a change in graphics on the 2010 model to incorporate the look of the new VLX. That's a pretty sharp look.

Also, I'd really like to see a change to the hull to improve the barefoot wake.

I'm sure others have a wish list for changes to the Response LXI.

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As a minimum, I was hoping that we would see a change in graphics on the 2010 model to incorporate the look of the new VLX. That's a pretty sharp look.

Also, I'd really like to see a change to the hull to improve the barefoot wake.

I'm sure others have a wish list for changes to the Response LXI.

If you're talking about the scallops in the side of the VLX's hull, that would require an entirely new hull mold & I highly doubt that we'll see that until a new design comes about. As others have said, 2010 at the very earliest, possibly beyond that. By then I'm sure that they'll be on to something else.

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When did you take up farming, Jack? I mean, with all that shiatt you are spreading - getting pretty deep. You must be really bored over there. :)

I too would love to see the VLX style lines in the hull - it just looks so sweet. But like Tracie stated, it would take a whole new mold. In this economy, I'm guessing they are going to take their time doing another turn. Just not enough buyers right now - especially in a shrinking DD market. I'd be surprised if they did anything in '10.

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The 2010 model, called the Response LXh, will debut in July/August. It will feature an hydrofoil (thus the 'h' in LXh) trio with one extending almost the enitre beam, slightly aft of amidship, and two smaller ones on either side of the hull just under the windshield base. This will take the wake out of any slalom skiing discussion, because at ski speed the boat will rise enough that the hull barely grazes the water. Tracking will be addressed by means of the two forward foils being connected to the steering system. . .

The new design requires fly-by-wire steering, in order that the two forward foils act in conjunction with the rudder. This system will take 'bat turn' to the next level. With the correct combination of steering and throttle, it will be possible to spin the boat 360° while maintaining almost the same heading. Think tea cup ride and you're on the right track.

The HDS will, unfortunately, not be eliminated but actually multiply. This is again due to the new steering system and mounting requirements of the hydrofoils.

The good news, however, is that weight and size of the hull is no longer a paramount factor. The new RLXh will be 22' 8" long with a beam of 95". Top speed with the foils engaged is estimated to be 68-70 MPH. Also, the Wedge is gone for the RLXh because the under-hull hydrofoils can be inverted effecting a similar result to adding 2150 lbs. of ballast.

Hmmm, let's see. Did I say the 'h' was for hydrofoil? Maybe it should be for ha, ha instead.

Surely you jest, eh?? Just for fun, lets say they could and would build a boat like this. An '09 LXI is what, around $50K "nicely equiped"? Your LXhaha would run what, $85K? Coooooll! Thumbup.gif

Ed

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When did you take up farming, Jack? I mean, with all that shiatt you are spreading - getting pretty deep. You must be really bored over there. :)
Your LXhaha would run what, $85K? Coooooll! Thumbup.gif

Well, I'm glad somebody was listening to my raving lunatic rantings! :lol: I mean, Tracie could have at least taken the time to call me an idiot or something. Whistling.gif

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Since the topic was opened, and hopefully Malibu reads it, I agree with GT, improving the barefooting wake would be great. I also agree, a hard core, lightweight, powerful slalom and barefoot specific boat would be my particular choice. The LX / LXi were the perfect fit and if they would tune the wake slightly to match the MC 197 wake at 38' off, that would be even better (to be fair, the 197 wake is not as good as the LX at longer line lengths such as 22/28 IMO). I know that my usage is pretty much in the minority and with a tough economy, it does not make a lot of business sense to invest in a new mold.

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Since the topic was opened, and hopefully Malibu reads it, I agree with GT, improving the barefooting wake would be great. I also agree, a hard core, lightweight, powerful slalom and barefoot specific boat would be my particular choice. The LX / LXi were the perfect fit and if they would tune the wake slightly to match the MC 197 wake at 38' off, that would be even better (to be fair, the 197 wake is not as good as the LX at longer line lengths such as 22/28 IMO). I know that my usage is pretty much in the minority and with a tough economy, it does not make a lot of business sense to invest in a new mold.

Hello Dwight!

I wasn't aware that the 197 at 38 off and in was considered to have a better wake than the LXI but that's pretty rarified air for me so I can't really say. I like the 197, but I BOUGHT an LXI one of the reasons being IMO the slalom wake is notably better. Anyway...

A thought - with this Axis line coming out, what about a hard core bare bones slalom/barefoot boat tweaked out for slalom and barefoot specific wake performance in Axis trim? No wedge, no tower, no bells and whistles, a throwback to the days of say an early '90's MC 190 etc (I'm not familiar with the CB Bu's earlier than about '97). Task specific hard core slalom tractor with a great BF table. Yeah it would take a new mould but tweaking out an older gen hull should do the trick so R&D wouldn't run too many $$$'s, eh?

There is definitely a market - look at Nautique buyers as a target market i.e. A lot of Nautique "diehards" only buy older used Nautiques 'cause the new ones are too freaking expensive and they don't want an open bow so there are no real alternatives for them. Offer them an equally good pull/wake at a budget price and I think there's potential there. My opinion FWIW.

Would this cut into LXI sales? Maybe a bit; however there are a lot of us who NEED the room and want the bells and whistles, a dedicated one-trick-pony slalom tractor wouldn't fit me i.e. But I'd think there would be enough market (IF the hull is done right) to be worth building ONE mould. I've always thought that if MC would bring back the '94 PS190 hull with a 300 hp EFI engine and modern electronics etc they'd sell a TON of 'em.

Ed

Ed

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They ought to do something to retain their 3 event boat buyers. We're the ones that caused their initial success. Don't hold your breath though, I've been seeing this coming since about 2005 and each year gets worse. The Fxi is not anything I'd be interested in. It's a stogey.

Seems like the big 3 have let the barefoot market go to Sanger.

I don't see Malibu as the value they were a few years ago. They aren't far behind Correct Craft. The boom years definately drove their price up.

Edited by 88Skier
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They ought to do something to retain their 3 event boat buyers. We're the ones that caused their initial success. Don't hold your breath though, I've been seeing this coming since about 2005 and each year gets worse. The Fxi is not anything I'd be interested in. It's a stogey.

Seems like the big 3 have let the barefoot market go to Sanger.

I don't see Malibu as the value they were a few years ago. They aren't far behind Correct Craft. The boom years definately drove their price up.

I just hope by 2012 the big three still have a boat that even close to slalom specific. Although I think it would be doubtful that MC, CC, Malibu would completely get rid of there direct drives...it's getting pretty close. You notice Malibu is starting to gear there V drives with the diamond hull and the alot of the direct drives are on wake hulls and are not slalom specific just a different seating arrangement which may appeal to some buyers.

I think Malibu tried back in the late 90's with a budget ski boat in the Sporter. I looked at one back then and it's was just to small, not what today's buyer wants. I see us all driving older ski boats in the next 5 years only because it's hard to get one that's slalom specific in say 2014. I suppose I'll be riding my 2000 sunsetter anyway Thumbup.gif

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....

I've always thought that if MC would bring back the '94 PS190 hull with a 300 hp EFI engine and modern electronics etc they'd sell a TON of 'em.

Ed

They can't exactly do that since they sold that mold to MB Sports years ago. It's been in existence as the Boss 190 for years.

Over the years, I've seen a lot of comments about 3 different types of boats: 1 was the outcry over the Sunsetter LXi Classic, 1 was the outcry over the Sportster & a true footing boat, & the third was the outcry for a hard core, slimmed down slalom machine (which overlaps with the Sporty). People have made comments like "they'd sell a ton of them" since what seems like the dawn of time. At one time, I actually saw the sales numbers for the SLXI & Sportster, & I can see why those models went away. They never sold very many of them to begin with, so it made no business sense to keep those molds in production, especially given the numbers that those factories have been cranking out for the past few years as well as the fact that those 2 models didn't share their hulls with any other model. Why do you think that the Sunsetter LX/Sunkicker/Wakekicker/Wakesetter/Iride stayed in production for so long? They didn't sell very many of those either, but it shared its hull with 2 other models. What Malibu has done with the RFXI I thought was brilliant, since it would appear to be the true replacement for the SLXI Classic yet utilize an existing mold to do it (given, they did need a new top-deck mold). If Bu can find a way to do something similar for the footers/hardcore crowd on an existing mold, that's the only way that I can see it happening. (The only problem with the RFXI example is the price, buy you get my point.) Malibu has done a good job from a business perspective of consolidating many of their models into the fewest molds possible. When you look at it like that, the possibility of a slimmed down slalom tractor goes right out the window unless they can do it on an existing mold that is in current production. I believe that we already have that in the Response, right? I could see them moving the Response over to the Ride series, bringing back a revamped version of the Sporty (think of the baby brother to the RLXI), & doing away with models like the 247RX (if they haven't already) & the Corvette once the agreement with GM is done. But most of those things probably won't happen.

Axis....I don't know. I question the decision to launch any new business in this economic climate, but especially a boat company. I personally believe that Malibu would have been better off to build on the Ride series, but I'm just preaching from the cheap seats.

My opinion....I think that all of the boating manufacturers, but particularly the Big 3 need to (& probably are doing so already) re-evaluate their business plan & model. For the past few years, these companies have put a lot of emphasis on the "lifestyle", gearing their marketing & business plans around that. Much of this was focused on new buyers, whether they were new to the brand or new to boating at all - the goal was to get first time tourny boat buyers into the brand. It was an easy thing given the credit that was available. (I'm not being critical of that plan, just stating a fact.) I think that that needs to be re-evaluated given the current economic climate & the outlook for the next 2-3 years, & possibly beyond. Part of that I think needs to involve a heavy emphasis in getting past & repeat customers into new boats. They need to find a way to entice their current base, because that new-buyer market has already begun to dry up.

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We have to get skisix in on this because he routinely runs -38 behind both of those boats and I don't think he prefers the 197 at any length. Might be wrong there, but I'll ping him anyway.

Well, I routinely ski 38 and 39.5 with a RLxi and a 196 and I don't mind either of those boats for shortline skiing or driving. I haven't skied behind a 197 in long time and I am glad about that- the reason being that the promo197 they had in my area last year had a wake tower on it that the rope would have hung up on at 32 or 35 off and with all the speakers and the heavy tower and an already slow and heavy boat, I don't think I would have had a good ride. It's not that I don't like the 197 at all but, it wouldn't be my first choice because it's a heavy boat and last years version was very loud! With ZO gassing me and the lack of any muffler that boat would have been distracting to ski with. I hope Malibu doesn't shape or tune the wake of their slalom boat to be like the 197. I like the RLxi wake now, I like the older version wake(03-06) and the newer hull is ok too but that is a big boat for the little tourney lakes I ski on.

I think the economy will force the boat mfgs to reduce the amenities on these boats to drive out cost so that they can sell some boats. The days of tons of credit are coming to an end and peeps are getting tired of having to co-own boats and even the promo peeps can't afford to keep getting new boats every year. There is a lot of talk about how the promo peeps are keeping their boats and with that being the case the days of the promo programs are coming to the end. Once that happens tourney skiing will be reduced greatly as the number of lakes that can hold a tourney will be very few- those that have a club boat. To combat this the mfgs are going to have to trim the ski boats up to bring them back down to 30-35K for a brand new boat.

I plan to keep skiing behind my old skow of a boat -03 RLXi and up grade the speed controls as they are proven.

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I think that the question that Malibu has to ask themselves is whether or not they want to keep the slalom crowd happy & in current Malibu models. It's my belief that they've lost that crowd, or if they haven't then they're well on their way. Most of it that I see & hear is the complaint about the size, & to a certain extent Malibu has done a good job of boxing themselves in on that count.

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It's interesting commenting on the "lifestyle" emphasis, if you look around at other products, that has been a common theme for several industries, including spectator sports such as Nascar and others. That trend has also done exactly what 88skier implied, pushed out the original or past decade core customer in search of the newer ones. Many of these business' are looking hard at the effect and considering ways to recapture the "hard core" customer as the newer ones tend to be less devoted. The reason, as you chase the lifestyle attributes, the cost goes up due to the required amenities to capture this audience.

I agree with Tracie, the actual volume for the 3 event or hard core skier is pretty small. Hard to make a good business case for when times are good and the major market has shifted to the wakeboard boats and lifestyle boats, but when times are tough, and each customer counts, there may be room for one. I also agree with 88skier that for me, the FXi is not on my list.

My point was a minor tweak on the LX hull and it could serve the hard core purpose nicely. The wakes of the top three are very close, just slightly different and certainly argueable as to which is better. I just happened to be impressed with the lack of kick on the second wake on the (stripped, no tower, etc.) 197 at 38' off. The Malibu's are certainly much quicker, have a better holeshot and I thought have a better wake at the 22-32 range along with the fact LX and older RLXi's are much better footing boats. I think there is a pretty good reason Malibu gets so many Boat of the Year awards!

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I still want a closed bow Sunsetter LXI circa 1999-2004. But I guess I'll have to settle for the correct 03-06 RLXI when it comes along.

I'm not going to quote anyone, but I'm reading a lot about tweaking an old hull mold for a new hardcore boat. Seriously, is there anything that wrong with original SV23 design from 1993? Other than the HDS of course. The wake will not be the limiting factor to anyone's performance.

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We have to get skisix in on this because he routinely runs -38 behind both of those boats and I don't think he prefers the 197 at any length. Might be wrong there, but I'll ping him anyway.

I hope Malibu doesn't shape or tune the wake of their slalom boat to be like the 197. I like the RLxi wake now, I like the older version wake(03-06) and the newer hull is ok too but that is a big boat for the little tourney lakes I ski on.

...To combat this the mfgs are going to have to trim the ski boats up to bring them back down to 30-35K for a brand new boat.

I plan to keep skiing behind my old skow of a boat -03 RLXi and up grade the speed controls as they are proven.

I completely agree on all three points skisix. That's why I bought GT's '05, I think this is currently the best family salom boat out there, period. I like the newer hull as well but for some reason I just really connect with the 03 - 06 hull; the way it skis, the way it drives, it just works for me better than anything else out there. And I have the good fortune to get to drive and ski a lot of different boats. Didn't realize the MB Boss 190 was the old '94 PS190 hull though. Don't see too many (in fact any) MB's here in the Great Plains.

I'll never say never but the '05 I have now is the boat I've been working to get into for a couple of years now and at my rapidly advancing age I don't see myself springing for another slalom boat when this one does everything I need it to do so well. This one should last me a good long time, at least until the old knees and shoulders finally crap out.

Ed

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I looked at and tested a MB 190 prior to buying my RLXI I did not know it was the old MC hull. The boat I was looking at was new but almost two years old and still was almost the same price as my RLXI. It was a nice boat but considerably smaller. Wake was very good but not near as good as the BU.

We ski CC MC and BU and IMHO i think the Rlxi is the best with CC 196 very close.

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To Tracie's comment: I think that they have the capacity for building the $$$ generating wake boats and the fewer hard core slalom boats. What they have been doing is to get several models into a very small market- the RLX, RLXi and now the FXi, plus the XTi and probably even more models that I don't know about. That's too many boats that all really compete with each other, minus the XTi perhaps. The point is that they have a bunch of boats in the 19-21 foot range and they could perhaps improve the bottom line by reducing the number of models in that range and seel as many as they do now only with fewer models to spread the cost out on. They don't need to compete with themselves when the other guys are providing tough competition already.

So now that Bu has the FXi, they could put the RLXi on a diet and have it become the hardcore slalom boat. There are plenty of skiers out there that are die hard Malibu fans, even with the newer larger boat. They would all rather have a smaller boat though- just no need for that big of a boat for the small lakes. Leave the more diverse use boat duty to the FXi, if it's sooooo good.

I owned a '94 MC for 9 years before getting the RLXi, I know all ther eis to know about that boat and I gotta say that for real shortline there's nothing that beats the RLXi, arguably there are boats that are just as good, but nothing better. That said, for a starter and for skiers up to 32 off, the '94 is as much boat as a slalomer needs.

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To Tracie's comment: I think that they have the capacity for building the $$$ generating wake boats and the fewer hard core slalom boats. What they have been doing is to get several models into a very small market- the RLX, RLXi and now the FXi, plus the XTi and probably even more models that I don't know about. That's too many boats that all really compete with each other, minus the XTi perhaps. The point is that they have a bunch of boats in the 19-21 foot range and they could perhaps improve the bottom line by reducing the number of models in that range and seel as many as they do now only with fewer models to spread the cost out on. They don't need to compete with themselves when the other guys are providing tough competition already.

So now that Bu has the FXi, they could put the RLXi on a diet and have it become the hardcore slalom boat. There are plenty of skiers out there that are die hard Malibu fans, even with the newer larger boat. They would all rather have a smaller boat though- just no need for that big of a boat for the small lakes. Leave the more diverse use boat duty to the FXi, if it's sooooo good.

I owned a '94 MC for 9 years before getting the RLXi, I know all ther eis to know about that boat and I gotta say that for real shortline there's nothing that beats the RLXi, arguably there are boats that are just as good, but nothing better. That said, for a starter and for skiers up to 32 off, the '94 is as much boat as a slalomer needs.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. With the shrinking market, it's going to become increasingly important that they react quickly & consolidate as much as possible. That's one more reason that I have big concerns with the idea behind Axis.

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When did you take up farming, Jack? I mean, with all that shiatt you are spreading - getting pretty deep. You must be really bored over there. :)
Your LXhaha would run what, $85K? Coooooll! Thumbup.gif

Well, I'm glad somebody was listening to my raving lunatic rantings! :lol: I mean, Tracie could have at least taken the time to call me an idiot or something. Whistling.gif

I enjoyed the ideas jack...but because you asked you're an idiot.

-Chris

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To Tracie's comment: I think that they have the capacity for building the $$$ generating wake boats and the fewer hard core slalom boats. What they have been doing is to get several models into a very small market- the RLX, RLXi and now the FXi, plus the XTi and probably even more models that I don't know about. That's too many boats that all really compete with each other, minus the XTi perhaps. The point is that they have a bunch of boats in the 19-21 foot range and they could perhaps improve the bottom line by reducing the number of models in that range and seel as many as they do now only with fewer models to spread the cost out on. They don't need to compete with themselves when the other guys are providing tough competition already.

So now that Bu has the FXi, they could put the RLXi on a diet and have it become the hardcore slalom boat. There are plenty of skiers out there that are die hard Malibu fans, even with the newer larger boat. They would all rather have a smaller boat though- just no need for that big of a boat for the small lakes. Leave the more diverse use boat duty to the FXi, if it's sooooo good.

I owned a '94 MC for 9 years before getting the RLXi, I know all ther eis to know about that boat and I gotta say that for real shortline there's nothing that beats the RLXi, arguably there are boats that are just as good, but nothing better. That said, for a starter and for skiers up to 32 off, the '94 is as much boat as a slalomer needs.

Ya, but I'm not holding my breath for that. I'm mentally prepared for this '09 to be my last Malibu. I just hope that the reduced hours and reduced manning at the factory hasn't reduced the morale and quality of the boats.

Funny side note: The new FXi is exactly the same length, width, height and weight as the 20i. That's a big boat.

I've been thinking along those lines as well, it's a perfect setup with the RFXi in place. But I don't think it will happen. I said that they've boxed themselves in & what I mean by that is that a boat manufacturer rarely makes a boat smaller as it evolves, particularly when it's gotten larger over time. I also wonder at the prices, which is the second part to this whole thing. One of the big things that has been driving prices up (aside from demand & other factors) is the sheer amount of stuff that comes on/in these boats. A ski boat going on a diet won't be nearly enough to bring prices down to satiate & bring past customers back into the fold. And I don't see Malibu cutting back on that, although truthfully I think that there could have been ways of going about it without giving the impression of lower quality.

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So now that Bu has the FXi, they could put the RLXi on a diet and have it become the hardcore slalom boat. There are plenty of skiers out there that are die hard Malibu fans, even with the newer larger boat. They would all rather have a smaller boat though- just no need for that big of a boat for the small lakes. Leave the more diverse use boat duty to the FXi, if it's sooooo good.

x2

Edited by zad0030
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