Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

CO Levels behind towboats


martinarcher

Recommended Posts

Has there been any work done with te engine manufacturers on this?

The video and data is impressive, but it looks like the system would add considerable back pressure on the exhaust by combining them in the cross tube.

a great deal of engineering work goes into exhaust systems, sizing, flows, etc -

I am all for the increased safety, but question some of the engineering impacts.

Link to comment

i don't have the reference to it but there was an article that suggested the effects/damage of co exposure are cumulative. that kind of bothers me with as much time as we spend on the swim platform under a hot shower after a cold weather set.

Link to comment

According to everything I have read about the EXT/CAT system on the Monsoon engine in my '07 VLX, CO emissions are reduced over 99%. I am really hoping this is correct as this was one of the biggest considerations for getting this engine.

This past summer, there were a couple of people taken to the emergency room due to CO inhalation. They were swimming behind the boat after tooling around slowly on the lake (the boat was turned off when they were swimming), but it seems that the CO was trapped under the fiberglass swim platform and was slowly released as the boat rocked back and forth. I think I will always make the effort to get the boat up to plane just before shutting it down for a swim. My 4-year old daughter loves to just swim around the platform and jump off. I don't want any risk of CO poisoning.

Yes, I have also read that the effects are cumulative. I don't remember for how long, though. I doubt that it is cumulative for your entire life, just if you are exposed day after day without a significant break in between.

Link to comment
Has there been any work done with te engine manufacturers on this?

The video and data is impressive, but it looks like the system would add considerable back pressure on the exhaust by combining them in the cross tube.

a great deal of engineering work goes into exhaust systems, sizing, flows, etc -

I am all for the increased safety, but question some of the engineering impacts.

I was wondering about the same back pressure issues. Exhaust systems aren't just thrown together, they are as much of a design as come other parts of the boat. I would like to know the impact of a FAE on performance as well.

kernaltao,

Thanks for sharing about the emergency room alerts. I will be certain to plane the boat out before we stop for a swim in the future. It makes sense and might be something you would overlook before stopping to swim.

Link to comment

I don't buy it....this study was probably funded by that company that makes that goofy "Fresh Air Exhaust" thing. The fact is, our boats are open to the environment, the high levels of CO that are released at the exhaust outlets are immediately diffused into the air. Think of it this way. Place a drop of red food coloring into an 8oz glass of water. What happens? It turns pink right? Now take that same drop of red food coloring and put it into an Olympic sized swimming pool, what happens? Nothing. The small drop of red food coloring is not nearly a high enough concentration to turn the water pink. Statistics and theories aside....I've been skiing/boarding behind inboard tow boats for 20 years and have never once heard of anyone having symptoms of CO poisoning due to skiing behind or riding in the boat.........

Link to comment
I don't buy it....this study was probably funded by that company that makes that goofy "Fresh Air Exhaust" thing. The fact is, our boats are open to the environment, the high levels of CO that are released at the exhaust outlets are immediately diffused into the air. Think of it this way. Place a drop of red food coloring into an 8oz glass of water. What happens? It turns pink right? Now take that same drop of red food coloring and put it into an Olympic sized swimming pool, what happens? Nothing. The small drop of red food coloring is not nearly a high enough concentration to turn the water pink. Statistics and theories aside....I've been skiing/boarding behind inboard tow boats for 20 years and have never once heard of anyone having symptoms of CO poisoning due to skiing behind or riding in the boat.........

Plus1.gif I'm sure that I inhale more CO sitting in traffic every friggen day. I'm also not so sure about the CO under the swim platform, a gas would seem to dissapate from space between the water and the platform.

Link to comment

Also one very important thing:

Under Test Equipment

Whistling.gif 1988 Correct Craft, they need to compare it to the boats that are being built today. Much more efficient fuel delivery than what they had in the late 80's

Edit: This could very well be marketing for older boats if the studies are really true, all they are really doing is adding cats to the exhaust!!

Edited by 68Slalom
Link to comment
The fact is, our boats are open to the environment, the high levels of CO that are released at the exhaust outlets are immediately diffused into the air.

Station wagon effect: Under certain weather conditions, operating the boat at or near idle speed will bring the exhaust into the back of the boat. There are some people who may be more affected by this than others; children being one group.

Here's a little info.

And another.

Link to comment
The fact is, our boats are open to the environment, the high levels of CO that are released at the exhaust outlets are immediately diffused into the air.

Station wagon effect: Under certain weather conditions, operating the boat at or near idle speed will bring the exhaust into the back of the boat. There are some people who may be more affected by this than others; children being one group.

Here's a little info.

And another.

Keeping the center window open helps a lot, particularly when wakesurfing.

Link to comment

Centurion boats has implemented a side exhaust exit for their wakesurf boats. Getting any airflow to move the exhaust away from the back of the boat is a positive step. There has been concerns due to some drowing accidents due to drowsiness caused by CO emissions, pretty much due to hanging on to the platform.

Link to comment
Centurion boats has implemented a side exhaust exit for their wakesurf boats. Getting any airflow to move the exhaust away from the back of the boat is a positive step. There has been concerns due to some drowing accidents due to drowsiness caused by CO emissions, pretty much due to hanging on to the platform.

It's more like, "pretty much due to the dumb@ss nature of their parents". Okay, that's a debate for another thread, but the parents of those kids allowed their kids to do that with no life jackets even though they were required by law to wear them. Then they claimed after the fact that they "had no idea that the exhaust came out of the boat in that spot". Sorry, that one doesn't wash with me. Those kids would be alive if their parents had simply followed the law. Laws like that exist in part to protect kids from the dumb@ss decisions that their parents make. But....you do make a valid point & my rant is really something for another thread. I would say that most people shouldn't be playing that game anyway, but to each their own as long as you don't throw a fit when something goes wrong.

The Sideswipe exhaust is pretty neato, but the ones that I've been around were really loud.

Link to comment

Totally agree and you can't legislate intelligence. It is amazing how much added cost ends up in modern products in an attempt to save stupidity that everybody ends up paying for. It's the American way to throw a fit when something happens, actually as the saying goes, only in America. In nature, its called natural selection.

Link to comment
OMG.. my boat creates CO!?! :Doh:

With our litigious society, if this was a super huge concern, all inboards would have some sort of down-pipe like that.

Keep working on your 1st useful post of the year... Tease.gif

I think he's running out of time. . .

And although all inboards do not come with the down-pipe, have you ever noticed how many yellow/orange stickers come on new boats? On the throttle. . .on the transom. . .yada, yada. . .

So obviously someone recognizes a potential danger.

Link to comment
OMG.. my boat creates CO!?! :Doh:

With our litigious society, if this was a super huge concern, all inboards would have some sort of down-pipe like that.

Keep working on your 1st useful post of the year... Tease.gif

have you ever noticed how many yellow/orange stickers come on new boats? On the throttle. . .on the transom. . .yada, yada. . .

So obviously someone recognizes a potential danger.

I'd argue that maybe it is just in response to the publicity... they need to do "something" in response. Sorta like the blower notice, though all newer boats come with fuel injection and don't have pooled fuel in carbs sitting under the cover.

Link to comment
OMG.. my boat creates CO!?! :Doh:

With our litigious society, if this was a super huge concern, all inboards would have some sort of down-pipe like that.

Keep working on your 1st useful post of the year... Tease.gif

have you ever noticed how many yellow/orange stickers come on new boats? On the throttle. . .on the transom. . .yada, yada. . .

So obviously someone recognizes a potential danger.

I'd argue that maybe it is just in response to the publicity... they need to do "something" in response. Sorta like the blower notice, though all newer boats come with fuel injection and don't have pooled fuel in carbs sitting under the cover.

Prolly so. Yes.gif

Link to comment

Haha - some funny responses since I've given this thread a read! Biggrin.gif I agree with a lot of what was said. I do run an 88' boat that I'm sure throws a lot more CO than the boats many of you ride behind. No issues yet nor do I expect to ever have any trouble. Any gas does dissipate exponentially once released into the atmosphere, it is just how close you are to the source. I just was surfing the net and thought it was kind of a neat read. I've heard a lot of people woofing about CO and thought the same as some here - whoopidiedoo.......of course a Chevy V8 puts our CO, but it's cool to see some real testing done. I would like to see another one done with an 09' Bu.

Hopefully it will help somebody out or make someone think twice before tossing their brain overboard and teak surfing.

Link to comment

The following is from Larry Mann, Fresh Air Exhaust inventor and manufacturer:

The primary concern with Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the people in the boat. A wakesurfer generally gets little exposure. The worst case scenario for CO in the boat is slow speed with the bow high (wake surfing). I have been on one major brand boat set up for wake surfing and recorded CO levels in excess of 500 ppm (and climbing) while sitting on the engine cover (V-drive). Five hundred ppm is VERY high. Of course no one sets on the engine cover while wake surfers are behind the boat (ha ha). Children are most susceptible. Yes, there is data that suggests that cumulative exposure to CO is detrimental. Also, it’s not just CO, gasoline engine exhaust contains many harmful compounds, some of which cause cancer.

The test data on our website was derived from an older carbureted engine (1988 Nautique) and a newer fuel injected engine (2002 Tige). We used the older boat for the testing by the Centers for Disease Control as we felt it was more challenging and we still came away with a reported 90% reduction in CO levels.

In general, inboard boat exhaust systems have little engineering (my observation). When I first invented FAE I contacted the 3 major boat engine manufacturers to see about having FAE certified. I was told that they do not certify boat exhaust systems and just leave it up to the boat manufacturer. They give a list of specifications to follow; these specifications primarily deal with riser height above waterline. There is also the requirement that the backpressure not exceed 2 psi. We have tested FAE on a few boats and found that the 2 psi level was not exceed until we reached wide open throttle, at which time it went to 3 or 3-1/2 psi. Simply back off the throttle a couple of hundred RPM and the backpressure drops back below 2 psi. Besides, I've always understood that you shouldn't run a boat at wide open throttle for long periods anyway.

As we currently understand the function of FAE, there is a little increase in back pressure when starting from stop. For most boats this should be good as an increase in backpressure increases engine torque. This should increase the speed with which the boat initially accelerates and is congruent with our time trials. Once the boat is up to speed, the shape of the FAE creates an area of lower pressure at the FAE exhaust outlet which helps to draw the exhaust gasses out of the engine; thus under most operating conditions, FAE does not increase backpressure in excess of 2 psi.

Performance: We now have over 500 satisfied customers and have about a 98% customer/boat satisfaction level. Plus we offer a money back guarantee. Boat owners are very demanding; if FAE screwed with performance, we would not have this level of customer satisfaction. Our customers have primarily been wake surfers and slalom skiers.

Catalytic converters on cars virtually eliminate CO. I trust they do as well on boats; I haven't tested one yet though. With or without cats, FAE reduces engine noise on average 50%. It has been tested by one boat manufacturer that stated that FAE was quieter than every muffler they tested. Our slalom ski customers have installed FAE so they could do early morning slalom runs without upsetting the neighbors. Many other customers install FAE instead of another amp for their stereo.

I have surfed behind a couple of Malibus and been very impressed by the wave (and of course the quality of the boat). However, once you experience an FAE on your boat, and then get on a boat without one (Malibus included), you realize how much engine fumes you are inhaling.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...