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Stock Ballast Pumps


Tao of Wake

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Has anyone timed how long it takes to fill each ballast tank in a Wakesetter VLX (preferrably 04-08) with just the stock equipment - pumps, lines, tanks? I will be making modifications to my boat this winter, including upgrading lines and pumps, and just wanted a baseline to compare to. It is full winter here in Michigan, so I won't have a chance to drop the boat in the water to get this info before I do the upgrades.

I am also very interested to know if there is any performance hit due to the starboard and center pumps sharing the same 3/4" thru hull? That is, when you fill both tanks at the same time, does it fill each slower than if you filled them individually? It would seem that there would be a degradation in fill time, but just remembering back to last summer, I am not sure there was. I usually surf, so I typically fill one of the rear tanks and the center, so it is difficult to gauge based on this. I have filled all 3 at the same time, though, and it seemed as though both rear tanks finished at about the same time. If you don't have actual data, just your recollection would be great!

Im not sure what you mean here, all my pumps have there own inlet. You have two pumps on one inlet?

Yes. My starboard rear and center fill pumps are on a tee pulling water from the same 3/4" inlet. I'm going up to our place this weekend, so I'll get a picture of this.

That seems like it would be a problem for sure. I think i would put both rear tanks on the tee and have the center on its own.

I never pull the plug in the rear by the tranny so i am going to add a pump there to fill my 750. then add a pump to the 750 to drain out of the same thru hull as the rear tank vent, with some one way valves to keep from having backflow.

I use that thru hull to change the oil (run drain tube out that hole). If you have your dealer change your oil, they may do the same thing, so you may want to check with them.

When I go up north this weekend, I am going to see if I can mount the center pump in the drain plug by the bilge (in the floor at the center of the boat by the driver's seat). I remember this is quite tight, but I am hopeful! I am thinking of splitting the output to 3 valves: 1 to the center tank, 1 to the port bow fat sac and 1 to the stbd bow fat sac. I am putting 350# ski locker sacs in the bow - 1 on each side. Again, I'm worried space may be too tight, though, to get the pump and valves in the floor access. If I can, it will be sweet, though, as I wouldn't have to run new pumps, drill any thru hulls, or run new switches. I just open the hatch and choose which tank I want to fill.

I think I am going with liljohn's design with a few tweaks: I will upgrade the fill pumps for faster fills. I will create the valves with PVC rather than purchasing the $45 diverter valves. I can make the same thing for about $15. I will put a tee on the drain port of the hard tank and run the drain line from the fat sac to this. That way, the same pump will drain both the hard tank and the fat sac. Also, while filling, I will leave both valves open so that water is pushed to both the hard tank and the fat sac. The water going into the fat sac will actually drain into the tank through the drain line into this tee, so the hard tank will fill first. When the hard tank is full, the water will take the path of least resistance, which will be into the fat sac. It won't start venting until the fat sac is full. I will tie the vent lines from both together through the same thru hull, though, so the hard tank can vent, if needed. I will do a similar setup with the bow sacs, but since there are two, and I may want to drain them independently, so I will put valves in each drain line coming from the sacs. Again, I am hoping to get these valves in the floor access for easy accessibility.

With this design, I won't have to mess with the valves for the rear fill unless I only want to fill the hard tanks and not the fat sacs. When filling or draining the bow sacs, I will just need to open the hatch and use the valves to determine which I want to fill/drain. The center tank will always drain when the pump is activated, but the sacs will drain into the tank. In effect, the sacs will drain first and then the hard tank. That way, I can keep the center tank full and just empty one of the sacs (for example, when switching sides for surfing).

I have an updated design I am working on. When I think it is complete (after inspecting the boat this weekend), I will post it.

I do all my own maint, and i use a pump for oil changes.

Good luck with the install, waiting to see pics.

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  • 1 month later...
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  • Tao of Wake

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Where did you find those valves? That looks like it would be the cats meow to use for the fill preocess.

They are from the big yacht boys there called diverter valves the use them to eliminate the amount of pumps. my dealer will have them on there online store early next week. I stopped by on my way home and he will get me the parts list it is basicly 2 pumps, 2 valves, 10 feet of hose, 4 check valves , 4 Y`s 15 feet of wire and a switch all the materials should be less than 300 bucks and will take the better part of a day for a nice clean install.

Paul/LilJohn

Alright; I'll bite on the design, but I'm still missing a piece.

2 Pumps, 4 Y's, 2 diverter Valves, and hose can all be bought from www.Bakesonline.com (Paul's site I believe)

What about the 4 Check valves for the vent and drain lines??? Everyone seems to talk about them, but where do you get a 3/4", barbed check valve with low restriction to air or water flow?

I think that is the last piece I need.

Thanks.

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Where did you find those valves? That looks like it would be the cats meow to use for the fill preocess.

They are from the big yacht boys there called diverter valves the use them to eliminate the amount of pumps. my dealer will have them on there online store early next week. I stopped by on my way home and he will get me the parts list it is basicly 2 pumps, 2 valves, 10 feet of hose, 4 check valves , 4 Y`s 15 feet of wire and a switch all the materials should be less than 300 bucks and will take the better part of a day for a nice clean install.

Paul/LilJohn

Alright; I'll bite on the design, but I'm still missing a piece.

2 Pumps, 4 Y's, 2 diverter Valves, and hose can all be bought from www.Bakesonline.com (Paul's site I believe)

What about the 4 Check valves for the vent and drain lines??? Everyone seems to talk about them, but where do you get a 3/4", barbed check valve with low restriction to air or water flow?

I think that is the last piece I need.

Thanks.

Hey colorado, you dont need check valves just the y fitting and you have to make sure to oriant it the right way ill show you and give you the link.. just remember where you got the simple and it works way to do it.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1311

post-3478-1231213275_thumb.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Was a kit ever made for this mod?

I am wanting to add a 750 to one side of my boat, this looks to be the best way.

looks like the parts list would be:

1 drain pump

1 switch for pump

1 Y valve

1 Y adapter for vent lines.

10ft of hose,

is this right?

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Was a kit ever made for this mod?

I am wanting to add a 750 to one side of my boat, this looks to be the best way.

looks like the parts list would be:

1 drain pump

1 switch for pump

1 Y valve

1 Y adapter for vent lines.

10ft of hose,

is this right?

It would be

1 drain pump

1 y-valve

2 y- fittings

10 hose clamps

1-10 amp breaker

15` of house

Link to comment
Was a kit ever made for this mod?

I am wanting to add a 750 to one side of my boat, this looks to be the best way.

looks like the parts list would be:

1 drain pump

1 switch for pump

1 Y valve

1 Y adapter for vent lines.

10ft of hose,

is this right?

It would be

1 drain pump

1 y-valve

2 y- fittings

10 hose clamps

1-10 amp breaker

15` of house

Awefully small house :)

Link to comment
Was a kit ever made for this mod?

I am wanting to add a 750 to one side of my boat, this looks to be the best way.

looks like the parts list would be:

1 drain pump

1 switch for pump

1 Y valve

1 Y adapter for vent lines.

10ft of hose,

is this right?

It would be

1 drain pump

1 y-valve

2 y- fittings

10 hose clamps

1-10 amp breaker

15` of house

Awefully small house :)

at least the bills would be cheap!! Thumbup.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...
Have you considered putting a cross-over hose in so you can pump directly from one bag into the other? If your main concern is decreasing the amount of time it takes to switch sides when surfing, that maybe be worth the effort (or maybe not).

that's a good idea, you could fill with the thru-hull pump as well as the drain pump from the other bag. once the bag is full switch off the thru-hull pump, the other bag will drain thru the overflow, when it is empty turn that drain pump off. that would increase your fill times.

probably not enough fill holes in the bags for that idea though.

Yea, it would have to be some type of manifold system. It wouldn't be that difficult to design, though. Just some PVC, a couple pumps and a bunch of valves. You could even do it with one pump, but that would require more valves.

Edit: The venting wouldn't work though since I would be filling the bag through that same port. Maybe I do need to get a custom bag that will fit the space perfectly and have enough ports! Anyone ever investigate how much it costs to get a custom bag made?

Edited by kernaltao
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I have figured out that if I go with a single 1-1/4" intake strainer, 1-1/4" valve, tee & reducing bushings, it would only be $3 more than if I used separate 3/4" thru hulls for each pump. I just need to determine if I have enough room to put all that. In my original design, all of the pumps would be vertical; with this design, the new 1200 pumps will be horizontal. It shouldn't be a problem since this is the same setup on the port side (port & center tank fill pumps).

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Yea, it would have to be some type of manifold system. It wouldn't be that difficult to design, though. Just some PVC, a couple pumps and a bunch of valves. You could even do it with one pump, but that would require more valves.

Edit: The venting wouldn't work though since I would be filling the bag through that same port. Maybe I do need to get a custom bag that will fit the space perfectly and have enough ports! Anyone ever investigate how much it costs to get a custom bag made?

Or you could put a Tee in after the drain pump on each bag. One branch of the Tee would run to your thru-hull drain fitting as usual, the other branch would run to the opposite bags mirrored Tee fitting. It would require the use of some valves to direct the flow of water from the drain pump either into the other sac, or out of the drain fitting, but won't require custom bags (which are quite expensive), or any elaborate manifold.

Hopefully that explanation made sense, if not let me know and I'll try again. :)

I have figured out that if I go with a single 1-1/4" intake strainer, 1-1/4" valve, tee & reducing bushings, it would only be $3 more than if I used separate 3/4" thru hulls for each pump. I just need to determine if I have enough room to put all that. In my original design, all of the pumps would be vertical; with this design, the new 1200 pumps will be horizontal. It shouldn't be a problem since this is the same setup on the port side (port & center tank fill pumps).

Usually it's easier to package everything in the bilge with the pumps oriented horizontally. Also, if you need to, you could use a piece of reinforced 1 1/4" hose (like the factory uses for the raw water intake) to separate the manifold from the thru-hull.

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Or you could put a Tee in after the drain pump on each bag. One branch of the Tee would run to your thru-hull drain fitting as usual, the other branch would run to the opposite bags mirrored Tee fitting. It would require the use of some valves to direct the flow of water from the drain pump either into the other sac, or out of the drain fitting, but won't require custom bags (which are quite expensive), or any elaborate manifold.

Hopefully that explanation made sense, if not let me know and I'll try again. :)

Makes sense, but it wouldn't really speed anything up. What Cervelo and I were talking about was having two pumps fill. For example, drain the port sac with the drain pump while simultaneously filling the starboard sac with the fill pump and with a pump moving the water from the port sac to the starboard sac.

Usually it's easier to package everything in the bilge with the pumps oriented horizontally. Also, if you need to, you could use a piece of reinforced 1 1/4" hose (like the factory uses for the raw water intake) to separate the manifold from the thru-hull.

Not sure I follow regarding the hose. Where would that be installed?

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I've updated my design, if anyone is interested. I incorporated the vent lines and using the 1-1/4" scoop intake thru hull.

Anyone know where I can get a 1" barb hose Y connector for under $9? If not, I can always make one out of 4 PVC items:

pvc-fitting-475-redgular-wye-sxsxs.jpg

pvc-fitting-460-barb-adapter-spigxbarb.jpg

(1) 1" PVC Wye

(3) 1" Spigot Barbed Adapters

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Makes sense, but it wouldn't really speed anything up. What Cervelo and I were talking about was having two pumps fill. For example, drain the port sac with the drain pump while simultaneously filling the starboard sac with the fill pump and with a pump moving the water from the port sac to the starboard sac.

It will take the same amount of time doing it your way as it will with mine. In my scenario, 100% of the water from the port sac is pumped to the starboard sac. At the same time, the fill pump is running on the port sac (which means it only has to do approximately half the work it normally would).

Usually it's easier to package everything in the bilge with the pumps oriented horizontally. Also, if you need to, you could use a piece of reinforced 1 1/4" hose (like the factory uses for the raw water intake) to separate the manifold from the thru-hull.
Not sure I follow regarding the hose. Where would that be installed?

The hose would run between the valve and manifold (using barbs) to allow to separate the two. This just in case the only place where the intake can be installed does not have enough room in the bilge for the manifold.

I've updated my design, if anyone is interested. I incorporated the vent lines and using the 1-1/4" scoop intake thru hull.

The updated version looks good and I don't see any problems with it functionally.

Anyone know where I can get a 1" barb hose Y connector for under $9? If not, I can always make one out of 4 PVC items:

Where are you seeing them for $9?

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I've updated my design, if anyone is interested. I incorporated the vent lines and using the 1-1/4" scoop intake thru hull.

Anyone know where I can get a 1" barb hose Y connector for under $9? If not, I can always make one out of 4 PVC items:

pvc-fitting-475-redgular-wye-sxsxs.jpg

pvc-fitting-460-barb-adapter-spigxbarb.jpg

(1) 1" PVC Wye

(3) 1" Spigot Barbed Adapters

just wondering, how you fill the tube sac under the seats on regular side and how do you fill the 750 on top of the seat on regular side and how do you fill the 400# sac that sits on top of the 750#er in the trunk?

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just wondering, how you fill the tube sac under the seats on regular side and how do you fill the 750 on top of the seat on regular side and how do you fill the 400# sac that sits on top of the 750#er in the trunk?

I don't have any of those items in my design. The only additions to the stock system in my design are the 750s in each locker. The only other bags I have are (2) 800# Straight Line Launch Pads & (1) 150# Straight Line Launch Pad Brick. I will put one of the 800's in the bow (fill partially or full depending on crew), then the 150 and other 800 on the back seats if I don't have many people on board. All of these will be filled manually with (2) SL Uber pumps.

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

how quick is the fill?

I don't think he is looking for a system that uses 1 pump for both the 750#er and stock hard tank though.

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

how quick is the fill?

I don't think he is looking for a system that uses 1 pump for both the 750#er and stock hard tank though.

fill the hard tank first than switch to fill the sac

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It will take the same amount of time doing it your way as it will with mine. In my scenario, 100% of the water from the port sac is pumped to the starboard sac. At the same time, the fill pump is running on the port sac (which means it only has to do approximately half the work it normally would).

I do understand now. I apologize. Will it work that way, though? It would be pushing water backward through the drain pump to the bag that is being filled (outlet->pump->inlet->bag). I didn't think these aerator pumps allowed flow that way.

After thinking about it more, this wouldn't gain me anything. The bag that is being emptied would have a lot of water remaining in it that would have to still be drained since the bag being filled is getting water both from the other bag and from the fill pump.

Honestly, I would recommend using one 1 1/2" scupper intake if you're going to create a separate system. It will require a bigger hole, but you can feed everything from that one connection point, and you won't be starved for water.

When the boat is underway, wouldn't this scoop type intake force water into the system? With enough force to push the water into the bags filling them?

you asked how is it different using a larger thru hull and reducing to 3/4 in after that. I have the same concern about the pump. the pump is rated at 1200gph based on the 1-1/8 inflow and outflow. I found it odd that an engineer from attwood would tell you the flow rate would not be affected by the reduction, i would double check that.

-the math: 750lbs of water is about 88 gallons @ 800gph (13 gpm) it takes about 7 minutes to fill. at 1200gph (20gpm) it takes about 4.5 minutes to fill, a savings of 2.5 minutes (one song?) over the proven stock system used by malibu of 3/4" throughout.

You've got me thinking that the W747 adapter will restrict the flow too much. I would like to explore connecting the pumps to the tee using a short piece of 1-1/8" reinforced hose. Can I just "screw" the hose onto the pump inlet and then use a couple hose clamps? Will this be water tight or do I need to use some pipe joint compound? Anyone have a good source (inexpensive) for the 1-1/8" reinforced hose?

EDIT: I found this hose; would this be OK for this application? I also found this adapter to connect the other end of the hose to the 1-1/4" tee. Does anyone know if this adapter would fit the 1-1/8" input on the Tsunami pump? Everything I have read indicates that it just connects to the outlet (1-3/8"?)

Edited by kernaltao
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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

Paul - I like this a lot! Would you have an estimate of the amount of additional hose that would be required for doing this to an '09 VLX?

I'm also a little confused by this statement in the bi-direction valve description. I'm hoping that doesn't mean I have to neck down to 5/8" ID hose.

3/4'' Hose Adapters (use with 5/8 ballast Hose)

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

Paul - I like this a lot! Would you have an estimate of the amount of additional hose that would be required for doing this to an '09 VLX?

I'm also a little confused by this statement in the bi-direction valve description. I'm hoping that doesn't mean I have to neck down to 5/8" ID hose.

3/4'' Hose Adapters (use with 5/8 ballast Hose)

Customers have really liked this set up, i haven't timed it but by the time you get somebody ready to ride it's pretty much full. No complaints from anybody saying it's slow and we've installed in in 20+ v-drive boats for surf or wake board set ups (one on each side)

For one side you need about 15 feet of hose, i would get a little extra just in case you route it different and need a few more feet.

The description was a type-o, i changed it on the website, thanks for pointing it out. Everything on that ballast system is 3/4 for maximum flow.

Thanks!

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

I have been thinking of using this design but plumbing it so that they are crossed over. So the port side stock pump would fill the port side hard tank or the starboard side sac and vise versa. That way I could fill the hard tank and sac at the same time on a particular side.

Also, I think I would buy the tsnumai pump for the drain.

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I've been getting a lot of e-mails wanting some sort of directions or diagram for plumbing in bags with a factory ballast system. This diagram shows how we've been plumbing a set of bags above factory ballast, this system has been working great, fills fast, no more dealing with throwing pumps over board, no complaints.

Hope this helps explain it a little better.

post-4023-1237253576_thumb.jpg

I have been thinking of using this design but plumbing it so that they are crossed over. So the port side stock pump would fill the port side hard tank or the starboard side sac and vise versa. That way I could fill the hard tank and sac at the same time on a particular side.

Also, I think I would buy the tsnumai pump for the drain.

good idea but confusing for anyone trying to fill the same side the divertor is on Whistling.gif

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